In response to this and Kei's post:

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Bakushin-BD145RSF

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Bakushin-Wheel-Testing

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-The-spin...Bull-90-CS


I am not certain where I had confirmed the 230 thing, but I am quite certain I did.

Just to back this up, I recall reading pretty much everything in the article at some point in the past, and the few times I've used my bakushin I haven't had any doubts about it. It was always considered to have some potential in all three types, and at the time of release it probably was actually a competitive part.
As I said, it's defense comes not from leaving little room between the underside and BD145 (though it's very difficult to get in there, so it does help a lot), it's the smooth slopes of it's sides that make it rather hard to land effective hits on.
Compared to other pre-4d wheels it does leave less space between itself and BD145 than most, though - Basalt has one of the largest overhangs pre- (and even post-) 4D, along with Leone and probably something else I've forgotten.

I don't think the article really gives it too much credit, though.

The other stuff: The 230 thing I honestly don't really recall any more than deja vu that could have come from reading the draft itself.

As for hidden potential in hasbro stadia, I'd definitely want to see some testing to back that up TBH, even with the difficulties getting people to test it, as Ultra said, Bakushin Beelzeb provides an unpainted version. It would be cool if anyone had one/got one at a tournament where there were some hasbro stadiums for free play to look into it.
Though, it'd be less hasbro stadia and more "striker stadium" which could be backed up logically - striker stadium is the one with the very flat floor where battles can be contact-less affairs, and bakushin may share rock's "good solo spin that doesn't work in battle due to recoil" thing to some degree (though with less recoil, of course).

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Once I receive my Duo, I'll be happy to test this. I ruined the paint from mine from the game, looooooong ago, hahaha. I'll soon enough be able to make Duo E230 as well, so I can try that. As for stamina, I've got nothing. I'll also try this against Flash and Variares. Should be receiving them within the week.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

I was going to let this die out, but because of the recent posts after my return, I thought I'd give it another shot. I made some edits to it since it was using data from quite a while back (When Lightning L-Drago was still considered top-tier.)

Just to back this up, I recall reading pretty much everything in the article at some point in the past, and the few times I've used my bakushin I haven't had any doubts about it. It was always considered to have some potential in all three types, and at the time of release it probably was actually a competitive part.

When exactly was it released, again? 2009 ...?

As I said, it's defense comes not from leaving little room between the underside and BD145 (though it's very difficult to get in there, so it does help a lot), it's the smooth slopes of it's sides that make it rather hard to land effective hits on.
Compared to other pre-4d wheels it does leave less space between itself and BD145 than most, though - Basalt has one of the largest overhangs pre- (and even post-) 4D, along with Leone and probably something else I've forgotten.

I understand the part about the smooth slopes, but did you see what I said in my previous post?:

Bakushin's "highest potential" does lie in its defensive ability, yes, but it is false to suggest that there is "very little" space left between the Metal Wheel and the Track when Bakushin and BD145 are combined. There is noticeably less space between Basalt and BD145 than there is between Bakushin and BD145.

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When exactly was it released, again? 2009 ...?

The thread was made in April 2010, so probably around then. It wasn't widely owned, and very few people used it, but it is one of the better wheels released before the maximum series.

I understand the part about the smooth slopes, but did you see what I said in my previous post?:

Yes, and the section of my post you quoted was almost entirely addressing the bolded section of your post...

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

The thread was made in April 2010, so probably around then. It wasn't widely owned, and very few people used it, but it is one of the better wheels released before the maximum series.

Hmm, so it would have been available before the advent of RS. I suppose it's OK to say that it was "decent" for Attack, since it did get good results against WB Defense customs apparently, but it does concern me that there is only two sets of Attack results (and Stamina) in the Bakushin Wheel Testing thread ...

Yes, and the section of my post you quoted was almost entirely addressing the bolded section of your post...

Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you meant by "overhang" initially.

Anyways, I just checked, and the gap between Libra and BD145 is the same as the gap between Bakushin and BD145. I checked a few other random pre-4D Wheels, and none of them made the gap between Bakushin/Libra and BD145 seem like anything worth noting. Basalt and Leone on the otherhand, would qualify as "notable" for the lack of space between them and BD145 when paired together.

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I've barely used mine for any attacking purposes, so I can't say much there, but in terms of stamina, it does have quite a good weight distribution to back that up, at least. So does rock, but rock is hindered by its recoil. That said, as you said it was only facing Earth WB combos after Libra was banned. Burn 85/90RF was decent against those, and with bakushin's weight distribution and so on I wouldn't be too surprised, though I would like see some more testing of its attack ability.

I think the notability of the gap depends on the ability for common attack wheels to be able to hit the underside of the wheel on BD145, as that is the benefit of having a smaller gap there. I'm not sure where I've left my bakushin, though, so could you see if Lightning L Drago or Beat would be able to get anything into that gap, or be able to land a solid hit there?

Either way, as I said, it's only a small part of the whole picture, but it would be nice to resolve it.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Yeah, I don't believe it's competitive anymore.

Beylauncher L/R
BB-10
WD's brand new

Bakushin Aquario AD145WD vs. Duo Aquario AD145WD
Duo launched first, AD145WD's switched each round.
Duo 10/10 wins. Didn't do anymore since Duo was outspinning it still quite a bit. Had about 30 seconds left in it though.

MF Bakushin Gemios R145/90RF vs. MF-H Duo Aquario BD145CS
Duo launched first.
Duo 10 OS's both times.

Bakushin just doesn't have the weight behind it to KO a heavy combo. I used Gemios to expose the Metal Wheel a bit more, but I don't think a switch in CW's would've helped it. I'm positive though that pre-4D it would've been definitely used competitively, probably in all categories.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

Could you do some testing against pre-4d combos. I'd be most interested in Bakushin attack vs MF-H Earth Bull GB145WB.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Sure, can do. I can do some comparative tests along with something like say, LLD, or Vulcan.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

It would be appreciated if you could test Bakushin as Attack, Defense, and Stamina against the top-tiers before 4D.

Can do. Will get on it now.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

I try to get some testing along with bakushin as well while im at it too.

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Just my impression on Bakushin:

A couple of guys used it during the last tournament I organized.
Against 4Ds it's really useless, the same against components released in the maximum series.
After the event, I asked to the entrant if we could use its Bakushin to see how it works: we've always curious about it. No one here used it before that two guys, haha!
It's decent against Burn and Flame, but against Rock, Lightning, Gravity and Earth it returns to be a useless Wheel. I mean in Attack vs Attack of course, as we usually do.
The only Attack vs Defense match was against Earth. We used Bakushin S130\H145\GB145\R145 RF against Earth GB145 WB\WD.

Also, I've just seen the draft in OP: it says that WF is slower than RF.
What? Less grip means more speed.

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

My knowledge of physics is rather limited, but I'm pretty sure that is half-true at best, if not completely incorrect, depending on how one interprets the word "grip". I'd personally need adequate explanations to be convinced as that goes strongly against almost everything I've observed, but as I said, I make no claims of knowledge in the field.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

My knowledge of physics is rather limited, but I'm pretty sure that is half-true at best, if not completely incorrect, depending on how one interprets the word "grip". I'd personally need adequate explanations to be convinced as that goes strongly against almost everything I've observed, but as I said, I make no claims of knowledge in the field.

I'll try to explain it with a simple example, I hope!

Well, have you ever seen motorbikes during the GP or cars in F1 with wheels made of a different material instead of rubber?
No. Why?
It's because materials like plastic allow both motorbikes and cars to run really fast, but at the same time this speed is kinda risky because there's no grip on the pattern. Rubber allows to have a great speed with an excellent level of security for pilots!
Rubber speed < Plastic speed, but for everyone human life is more important then races, of course.

Hope that with this you'll have understand the difference

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

Mmm, that is a fair point, though I would still like some reaffirmation personally (I know relatively little of physics, but if people are able to explain it to me in simpler terms, I appreciate the opportunity).
There is one further catch, however. Rubber speed < plastic speed" isn't always true, as traction, (IIRC it is traction anyway), is generally more important - there's no way a bey on a plastic Sharp tip is going faster than one on RF (other than the speed it flies out of the stadium at when hit) - even with two flat shapes, a Dranzer V attack mode tip is never going to move as fast as Customize Grip Base/Grip Base/Ariel 2's tip, heck, not even gaia dragoon v's base will.

Now, last I checked, WF wasn't quite as wide as RF, and I'm not convinced it is as fast, depending upon the condition of said RF.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Mmm, that is a fair point, though I would still like some reaffirmation personally (I know relatively little of physics, but if people are able to explain it to me in simpler terms, I appreciate the opportunity).
There is one further catch, however. Rubber speed < plastic speed" isn't always true, as traction, (IIRC it is traction anyway), is generally more important - there's no way a bey on a plastic Sharp tip is going faster than one on RF (other than the speed it flies out of the stadium at when hit) - even with two flat shapes, a Dranzer V attack mode tip is never going to move as fast as Customize Grip Base/Grip Base/Ariel 2's tip, heck, not even gaia dragoon v's base will.

Now, last I checked, WF wasn't quite as wide as RF, and I'm not convinced it is as fast, depending upon the condition of said RF.

Rubber speed < Plastic speed isn't always true because in this play it depends also on the shape of the bottom, yes, you're right.
Anyway, I was talking about a general topic. I was talking about performances that plastic and rubber can give you!
Traction, yes, it's really important. That's why we prefer rubber flat here in Italy !
Also, you've just done a wrong example, in my opinion! You're comparing tips with a really different shape and height! The Dranzer V aattack mode tip won't be faster than that bases. Ariel 2's and Customize Grip Base's tip are wider than that: that's the reason of that big difference in speed. In Moto GP or F1, wheels have the same lenght, width, etc! So, each car have the same wheel's performances at the "start". What I'm trying to say is that it's normal that an RF will be faster than an RS even if both of them are made of rubber !
But, if you think at a match with two Beys with the same Wheels, Tracks etc.. but one has a MS and the other one a RS, can you tell me which Bey will win?
It's quite simple. It will win the one with the MS? Why?
Because MS has less grip\traction\etc.. and it will go faster than the one with the RS

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

There is a reason tires are made of rubber and not plastic ... It would not move forward as well.

MS would win over RS simply because it has no rubber to make it lose its spin. However, if RS were able to move forward like RF, it would be faster than MS.

Are we even talking about directional speed or is Galaxy talking about the Beyblade's velocity ?

There is a reason tires are made of rubber and not plastic ... It would not move forward as well.

MS would win over RS simply because it has no rubber to make it lose its spin. However, if RS were able to move forward like RF, it would be faster than MS.

Are we even talking about directional speed or is Galaxy talking about the Beyblade's velocity ?

Sorry if it will be OT, but, just to explain better the situation:

Here in Italy we study Mechanics Physic starting from a general topic: all the experiments are made in "perfect conditions". It means that for the first chpaters of our book we study all the experiments without friction, without air resistence, and so on.

Starting from this point, rubber, metal, plastic, are all at the same performance level.
Now, adding what we have excluded first, the situation changes.

As you said, Kai-V, MS will win over RS simply because MS is made of metal and RS of rubber.
In fact, as you said MS has no rubber to make is lose its spin!

If RS was able to move forward like RF, its name would be RF, haha! It's a problem of shape!
I didn't understand this point, to be honest xD!

I think that th!nk is quite confused also because he sees that MS, or the Dranzer V's tip in attack mode is not too much aggressive as the others he mentioned.
But it's just a problem of shape.
Even if you "don't see the speed", th!nk, it's in the RPM of the Bey!
With that tip, a bey will be faster than one with the Ariel 2's tip; however, you'll see a Bey with the RF or the Ariel 2's tip going faster just because of its shape and its grip\traction on the pattern that allow it to create a movement pattern really aggressive!


th!nk, you can see - "materially" - better what I'm trying to say if you compare an RF at maximum speed to an XF at the same level of speed. The shape should be quite similar!

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

If you're talking in terms of the rotation speed of a beyblade/it's ability to maintain an RPM, I have no argument at all, it is common sense that rubber will not perform as well due to increased friction, however I don't think that is what the article is talking about - movement speed is what is being discussed there, which is shape-dependent, and this is what I was talking about.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

If you're talking in terms of the rotation speed of a beyblade/it's ability to maintain an RPM, I have no argument at all, it is common sense that rubber will not perform as well due to increased friction, however I don't think that is what the article is talking about - movement speed is what is being discussed there, which is shape-dependent, and this is what I was talking about.

Uhm, maybe there's a misunderstanding!
From the article:

However, due to the fact that it is plastic, it is slower than RF

It is talking about the fact that because WF is made of plastic it's slower than RF.

The article is talking about the fact that the plastic stuff is slower than rubber stuff , isn't it?

EDIT: anyway, it is not correct that WF is slower than RF, it's faster, the only thing that changes is the aggressive pattern that rubber does and plastic not.
So, I think that the article should be changed with a better sentence, no?

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

Oh, yes, that should definitely be changed, I don't think I read it correctly initially. I'd propose an alternative, but I'm literally dozing off as I write this, haha.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Oh, yes, that should definitely be changed, I don't think I read it correctly initially. I'd propose an alternative, but I'm literally dozing off as I write this, haha.

Haha xD
Well, I think that:

"However, due to its narrow shape and due to the fact that it is made of plastic, its movement will be less aggressive than RF."

Should be better, but I'm not English, so I don't know if there are better ways to say that, sorry xD

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

Oh, yes, that should definitely be changed, I don't think I read it correctly initially. I'd propose an alternative, but I'm literally dozing off as I write this, haha.

Haha xD
Well, I think that:

"However, due to its narrow shape and due to the fact that it is made of plastic, its movement will be less aggressive than RF."

Should be better, but I'm not English, so I don't know if there are better ways to say that, sorry xD

Double "dues" doesn't sound right.Rather it should read like this (IMO).

"However, due to its narrow shape and the fact that it is made of plastic, its movement will be less aggressive than RF."

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