World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations Metal Fight Customizations

Anti-Meta: Death Escolpio 90RF (Attack Mode)

Mar. 28, 2013  5:19 AM
 
*Warning: this is an extremely long OP: Feel free to skip past some explanations I put in mainly for newer users.

Anti-Meta?

How exactly would you define such a complicated term? Anti-Meta can be a very ambiguous term, however let us start out by breaking down the term.

[Anti] - [Meta] -----> Against - Metagame

So as you can see, an Anti-Meta combination is one that is designed to defeat a large portion of the Metagame, which is the competitive scene in a certain area.

For instance: tourneys in a particular state may have a very high concentration of attack types Beyblades, whereas the Metagame in another state or area might be heavily concentrated on spin-equalizing Dragooon Synchroms.

Since every area has a different Metagame, it is very hard to define Anti-Meta, because it changes from one location to the next. In this thread, I'd like to set out a tone for what I consider Anti-Meta: a type of Beyblade that does well in the overall competitive scene. This is usually best represented by the most commonly used combinations in the Top Tier list and the Winning Combinations thread.

Top Tier List (I listed the non-advanced forum version since it is updated more frequently)
Winning Combinations Thread

So if you are not familiar with the types of common combinations that are supposedly seen in the overall Metagame, I'd advise you to glance over them so that you would be in the proper mindset when I refer to this combination as Anti-Meta.


Death Escolpio 90RF

This combination was designed, as stated above to take out a large portion of the Metagame, hence Anti-Meta. It features very low recoil, considerable amount of smash, speed, and fantastic center of gravity for taking hits.

Face: I am not using a MF-H because this combo has such a great ability to take hits and such low recoil, that a MF-H will only slow the combination down. I suppose MF-H could be used to tame the speed if some users have trouble controlling it at first.

Escolpio: As you can probably tell, this combo is at a very low height. Escolpio serves as a form of Clear Wheel attack against taller Beyblades that might otherwise be harder to reach. I have tried Crown which has amazingly excellent synergy with Death in Attack Mode, but it was just not obtrusive enough. I have found Susanoo, Chimera, and Dragonis to be very close to Escolpio's smash.

Death (Attack Mode): This is the crux of the combo; the main reason this thing does so well in the overall Metagame. By taking a look at the Winning Combinations Thread and the Top Tier List, you can easily see that the Meta is leaning toward:

1. Right Spin Synchrom Defense, Stamina, and Attack
2. Left Spin Dragooon Defense, Attack, Balance, and pure Spin-Equalizers
3. Flash attack setups (RF based, MF)
4. Pure Stamina + Balance setups (Duo, Phantom etc.)

Please let me know if I forgot anything; I'm a bit drowsy while typing this. Synchroms are very unique in that they basically knocked Duo out of the competitive scene for Defense.

This is fantastic because common Synchrom defense setups, unlike Duo, are for the most part, wider than BD145 and have a fairly large gap between BD145 and the Metal. This allows the spikes on the top of Death's Metal Wheel to make contact and do major damage. Death is also known for have relatively low recoil, and being able to resist/do really well against Spin-Equalizers.

90:This is a really unique height for Death. It is low enough to optimize spike contact and get under SP230, but high enough to lessen pure disk contact. Not only does this track serve specific benefits, but also general benefits because it is low. Being that the majority of Beyblades in the overall Metagame are 130+ height, the spikes will continue to make contact providing excellent smash. Coupled with the sheer speed, extremely low center of gravity, and relatively low recoil of Death, this thing is extremely hard to KO by other current attackers. Think of it as Scythe 90RS or Wing 85RS. Only it moves.....very quickly...

RF: When choosing the tip, it was pretty obvious to me that I needed a Flat Rubber Tip for fast movement and obviously to KO things....I chose RF because it had the most stamina out of the other Rubber Flated Tips, giving it a higher chance of OSing an Attacker if Death did not achieve the KO, and IMO is generally easier to successfully deep bank with.

The Launch

Basically you need to deep bank when battling Right Spin Synchrom Defense Customs to maximize spike contact. Use a wider launch when VSing Left Spin Dragooon Combinations; the speed coupled with the spikes should be able to push them out.

Tests


Death Escolpio 90RF vs Killerken Gargole BD145RB
Death: 14/20 (13 KO, 1 OS)
Killerken: 6/20 (All OS)

Death Win Rate: 70%

Deep banking is the most important thing when getting this combo to KO. Try a few test battles to get the hang of it first.

Death Escolpio 90RF vs MF-H Flash Dragonis S130RF
Death: 17/20 (8 OS, 9 KO)
Flash: 3/20 (2 OS, 1 KO)

Death Win Rate: 85%

Death Escolpio 90RF vs Killerken Dragooon BD145RDF
Death: 19/20 (All KO)
Killerken: 1/20 (All OS)

Death Win Rate: 95%

18 Ties Redone (OMG!!!!)

Ok, after this test, I was done for the day. Basically Death tied just about every other match giving it plenty of time to KO. Idk how this happened since RDF has a ton of LAD, but I will have a video of this matchup coming up maybe tom.

Videos

I made this video in the very early Beta stage of this theory. Since then I have made some changes to the Beyblade, however they barely effect the combinations faced in this video.
VSing Dragooon BD145RDF and SP230 Defense Custom to come!

Closing Remarks

Be smart with this combination!! This Anti-Meta custom is based of off an ideal definition of Metagame. If you know your Metagame has not yet been dominated by Dragoon and Synchrom Defense Combos and that Duo Defense is still the "in thing", then be wary of using this. Yes Duo 90CS and Duo BD145CS and possibly even Hell 230RS (lol), but that doesn't mean this Combination is bad. This combo is designed to be that surprise combo, the one no one expected and the one that can help make a match that much more fun and interesting to play. Also some of these parts such as the Clear Wheel and the track are not static. One person may do better with 100 over 90 or perhaps Susanoo over Escolpio. Don't be afraid to make some changes to the combo and post your results in the thread! We could always use more insight!

Thanks!
Mar. 28, 2013  6:52 AM
 
Very nice concept Meow! I'll give it a try tomorrow and ill tell you how it does for me Cute seems really good, thanks

Now I wonder... Are you sure about th face? I'm thinking that maybe a MF-L could help, but maybe it could slow it down and disturb its LAD... Anyways, ill have to test it out myself before I start objecting Grin
Mar. 28, 2013  7:02 AM
 
Pure genius, Meow!
95% results against Killerken Dragooon BD145 RDF is surely OMG worthy! I wish I had died Death
How does it go with LRF by the way? I'm eager to know
Mar. 28, 2013  2:20 PM
 
Wow, these are great results!

Could you test against Synchrome attackers? You choose the setup.
Mar. 28, 2013  2:28 PM
 
I'd like to see this combo vs. Wyvang/Balro Dragooon SA165 R2F/LRF.

Though what I don't get in the video is why is the Defense combo launched closer to the tornado ridge? I'm assuming RB loses spin too much when it's close to the center? How about replacing RB with RSF or RS, and soft-launching it so it stays close to the center of the stadium?

Anyways I'll post my own tests whenever I have the chance. So far while messing around with it, I've had problems against E230 Defense combos.
Mar. 28, 2013  3:36 PM
 
The results seem pretty good, haha!
Moreover, the concept is pretty nice as well.
It is based on the concept of an Anti-Attack combo, and it has the added ability to defeat most other combos in the meta-game as well. So, its quite unique.

I haven't been to many testing threads recently (especially since Zero-G came in), but it seems like Weak Launching has become somewhat obsolete now(?)
I would like to see this combo against Zero-G Defense combos when weak launched (as Vixxterity seems to suggest).
The best would be to see Killerken Dragooon BD145RDF weak launched- just like most spin-steal combos were back in the day. That would be pretty interesting. Smile

I wouldn't really ask you to try out certain other combos, because you (Meow!) know for yourself that this combo has its weaknesses. You created this combo specifically for countering the current Meta, so its kinda pointless to ask you to test some "other combos" against this. So yeah!
Mar. 28, 2013  6:11 PM
 
(Mar. 28, 2013  5:19 AM)Meow! Wrote: RF: When choosing the tip, it was pretty obvious to me that I needed a Flat Rubber Tip for fast movement and obviously to KO things....I chose RF because it had the most stamina out of the other Rubber Flated Tips, giving it a higher chance of OSing an Attacker if Death did not achieve the KO, and IMO is generally easier to successfully deep bank with.

This combo seems really awesome, how does it do against a plain 230? Also, would GF work with this same setup? It has Stamina, and can still form a flower pattern IIRC.
Mar. 28, 2013  7:03 PM
 
GF can't move in a prefect flower pattern. Plus, it has no grip- which would make this combo vulnerable to KOs
Mar. 29, 2013  2:55 AM
 
Maybe Hasbro Death will finally get a use, haha.

Anyway, this is a very interesting concept, but I'm wondering how much Escolpio affects this combo. Obviously, it is optimal, but do the results drastically change if one puts, say, Leone instead?
Mar. 29, 2013  3:10 AM
 
Nice concept and those are pretty good results. Do you think this combo could be tested against Diablo Anti-Atttack and Dragooon SA165 EWD? I've seen and heard Dragooon SA165 EWD places a lot so that would be and interesting to test against. To see if it. When I get the Death wheel I'm trying this out for sure. Can't wait for more tests and nice thread.
Mar. 30, 2013  5:45 PM
 
Hey Meow! I did some informal testing with this combo, and I have a few questions...
Spoiler (Click to View)
Smile
Mar. 31, 2013  7:36 AM
 
The same thing happened with me! I tried using MF-H since I had trouble controlling it, but it still didn't work... It's probably because I'm horrible at deep banking. The combo I tested it against was Killerken Reviser BD145CS.
Mar. 31, 2013  7:48 AM
 
Maybe using MF-H makes it impossible to KO things with it?
MF-H would truly slow down the pace of this combo.
As such combos have no real contact points, they'd depend on sheer speed to KO things. So maybe.... Just maybe.... MF-H is truly disadvantageous.
Mar. 31, 2013  12:03 PM
 
Meow! I'm kinda on the edge about calling this legit...
Being able to KO something on RB and RDF + Synchrome with Death, mainly a defensive wheel, seems really fishy for me. By all means the concept is amazing, but the results, especially against The RDF combo, seems a bit far fetched for me. A video and more tests from other ,embers would be nice.
Mar. 31, 2013  1:57 PM
 
This is pretty good, I must say, but can I see how this does against MF-H Blitz Unicorno CH120R2F? That seems to be one of the only combinations I can't beat, and also I'm just curious...
Mar. 31, 2013  2:25 PM
 
That combo is not part of the current Meta-Game (or is it?), haha!
This combo was not meant to counter Blitz CH120R2F at all. Grin
Mar. 31, 2013  3:04 PM
 
BeybladePants11 How is you Death moving? Is it very sluggish or is the rubber hard? Also make sure you are deep banking. If it helps, try to mimic the launch I presented in the video.

@theblackdragonAlso, I did get a Reviser and tried it on the bottom. It does a lot better, but I am still able to KO a bit. I'll have some test up later but as for now, can anyone confirm my Killerken or Garogle tests?

Kujikato I don't see how koing, Dragooon BD145RDF is far-fetched. It is extremely similar to Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF only it ties if it doesn't KO. Thus, giving you the time to actually KO if you miss the majority....
Apr. 01, 2013  1:34 AM
 
The concept behind this combo is incredibly clever and solid; I might not trust it as much against right-spin RDF combos (particularly those using Reviser, which are the most common), but that is almost irrelevant when Dragooon BD145RDF variants are the most popular "Defense" combos.

After only doing a couple rounds of testing this morning with I pulled a Fox variant (Fox was chosen on a whim; it looked nice and its characteristics seemed somewhat similar to Death) out in the finals of Modern Bey Fair for the surprise factor of it, and because there was a high chance that JesseObre was going to be using a Dragooon BD145RDF combo. Unfortunately, I ended up losing versus his MF-F Duo Aquario SA165BWD, but that was not because of any fault in the combo itself; it certainly has the ability to KO Stamina combos as well. I do need to test this more before I can make any definitive conclusions about it, though; these are just my initial impressions. But overall, nice work, Meow!
Apr. 01, 2013  6:30 PM
 
i really like this combo and am considering on using it in a tournament so i did some test of my own with my susanoo variant with a MF feather to lighten the load and increase speed (only attack testing though) Gear (right string launcher with a launcher grip and bb-10 stadium)
MF-H Flash Orion S130 MF vs MF-F Death Susanoo 90 RF
FO:10 (5 OS's and 5 KO's) DS:10(9 KO's and 1 OS )
so i did a rematch
FO: 9 (All out spins) DS:11 (9 KO's 2 OS's)
i guess i just needed to get used to combo and so i switched up Flash orion
MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F vs MF-F Death Susanoo 90 RF
FO: 9 (8 OS's 1 KO) DS:11 (8KO 2 OS's)

I would have done some matches against blitz but my CH120 is really loose and makes he combo come apart so i need a new one. anyways i believe the slopes on susanoo really help with the upper attack of this combo as it helps push the opposing bey upward along with the spikes as it's parallel to them and Death in this combo really seems to have a lot of reflective ability i remember when Death hit Flash so hard into a stadium wall it just keep going up and over the wall.This combo has great upper attack Ability and i feel comfortable using it in a tournament. great job Meow! for this out of the box thinking
Apr. 02, 2013  7:46 AM
 
This combo certainly jogs my memory. It reminds me of Brad's Libra CH120 RF and
Ga'Hooleone's MF-H Basalt Horogium R145 RF. Notice the similarity here? A good defense wheel paired with an RF.

In the case of Libra CH120 RF, it was dubbed as a 'Balance' type, while MF-H Basalt Horogium R145 RF was then labeled as an 'Anti Attack' type. This Death Escolpio 90RF is now classified as 'Anti Meta'.

Anyway, I disagree with the classification of it as an Anti Meta, and here is why:

Like its predecessors, this type of combination will probably be on the edge against the conventional defense type, and will not fare too well with the balance hybrid of Defense-Stamina, which currently still dominates the meta. Yes, I know that the OP has excellent results against Synchrome RDF / RB, but this is Meow! that we're talking about. I have watched and LOVED Meow!'s videos. What most members don't realize is that Meow! has an excellent launch technique that makes it seem like the bey just glides off the launcher onto the stadium. I don't doubt the OP's result and the combo's effectiveness for the more proficient bladers. At the same time, I have my concern about its efficiency for the rest who are not as attack oriented, achieving the same result. Personally, I would say it's a Balance combination that can handle Attack and Stamina types well.

About the combo itself. I do love the fact that you opted for a low track 90/100 to take advantage of Death's thickness in Attack mode to upper-smash / destabilize high opponents. In addition to that, Death is notorious for its Anti Spin Steal ability, which will definitely come in handy facing Dragooons that are everywhere nowadays. Overall, I sincerely think that it's a clever combination that is definitely worth further exploring. Kudos!
Apr. 03, 2013  3:51 AM
 
(Apr. 02, 2013  7:46 AM)Uwik Wrote: Like its predecessors, this type of combination will probably be on the edge against the conventional defense type, and will not fare too well with the balance hybrid of Defense-Stamina, which currently still dominates the meta. Yes, I know that the OP has excellent results against Synchrome RDF / RB, but this is Meow! that we're talking about. I have watched and LOVED Meow!'s videos. What most members don't realize is that Meow! has an excellent launch technique that makes it seem like the bey just glides off the launcher onto the stadium. I don't doubt the OP's result and the combo's effectiveness for the more proficient bladers. At the same time, I have my concern about its efficiency for the rest who are not as attack oriented, achieving the same result. Personally, I would say it's a Balance combination that can handle Attack and Stamina types well.

Can you give an example of what you mean by "balance hybrid of Defense-Stamina"? I would say it is a Balance type as well (since "Anti-Meta", as well as "Anti-Attack, are not a types, but strategies), though.

(Apr. 02, 2013  7:46 AM)Uwik Wrote: In addition to that, Death is notorious for its Anti Spin Steal ability, which will definitely come in handy facing Dragooons that are everywhere nowadays.

This is what puts it over the top, in my opinion. Being able to tie Dragooon BD145RDF if you don't KO it is invaluable.
Apr. 03, 2013  4:46 AM
 
(Apr. 03, 2013  3:51 AM)Kei Wrote: Can you give an example of what you mean by "balance hybrid of Defense-Stamina"?

Essentially, just your basic defense / heavy / low recoil combinations that have good stamina, either due to the bottom selection or the grinding property of the Metal/Chrome Wheel.
Apr. 03, 2013  7:01 AM
 
Could other tips besides RF be used? And is there a more prefered tip for zero g stadiums?
Apr. 03, 2013  11:55 AM
 
I guess it could use any rubber flat tip, but this is an anti-meta for bb-10,so it will not be too good for zero g
Apr. 03, 2013  5:31 PM
 
What do you mean by "antimeta"?
Page 1
Next