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A few questions on MFB meta game parts...

Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM
 
Old player here, haven't played since... Probably late MFB 2nd series (around when Horogium and Byxis were out.) I have a couple of questions.

1. Why does 230 seem to be the standard for stamina tracks? I sort of understand the idea of reducing metal-to-metal contact, but within that same vein, wouldn't metal-to-plastic be a major risk? When did 230 become the golden standard?

2. EWD vs BGrin? Seeing as how EWD is the more preferred base, but is also a lot more difficult to reasonably find (like wow, Beafowl is expensive), does BGrin even compare?

3. Does Zero-G/Shogun Steel have any compatible parts with MFB, or are they all not compatible/banned?
Mar. 13, 2022  8:21 AM
 
(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: Old player here, haven't played since... Probably late MFB 2nd series (around when Horogium and Byxis were out.) I have a couple of questions.

Welcome back! I'll preface my answers with a note that there are currently two official tiers of MFB - MFB Standard Format (unrestricted aside from the usual bans on fakes etc), and MFB Limited Format (bans a large number of Metal Wheels to fix overall power levels to roughly the same as right before the release of Basalt and Hell). There's also Zero-G format, but the main difference there is that it's played in a Zero-G Stadium instead, and is nowhere near as popular as the other two formats.


With that in mind, I'll skip to your third question:
(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: 3. Does Zero-G/Shogun Steel have any compatible parts with MFB, or are they all not compatible/banned?
Zero-G/Shogun Steel replaces the Metal Wheel, Clear Wheel, and Face with Chrome Wheels, Crystal Wheels, and Stone Faces. These parts are not at all compatible with each other, but Tracks and Tips are the same between both Zero-G and regular MFB, so you can mix those at will. Zero-G's Synchrome gimmick allows you to combine 2 metal Chrome Wheels together instead of a metal Chrome Wheel and a plastic Crystal Wheel, which allows for incredibly heavy combos that dominate Standard Format. All Zero-G parts are legal in Standard; in Limited Format, Synchromes are banned, so you need to use the lighter Chrome+Crystal combos that better match other Limited-legal Beyblades.

Limited Format also has a ban on the "big disk" Tracks, including Hell Kerbecs' BD145, but also three other similar Tracks introduced in Zero-G: E230, SP230, and SA165.


(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: 1. Why does 230 seem to be the standard for stamina tracks? I sort of understand the idea of reducing metal-to-metal contact, but within that same vein, wouldn't metal-to-plastic be a major risk? When did 230 become the golden standard?
230's popularity in Limited Format is less about it being a good Stamina part and more about the format's abundance of strong Attack types sending other combos fleeing to the extremes of super tall/super short to try and avoid making strong contact. Flame _____ 230CS is a very common combo with a solid blend of Defense and Stamina thanks to its extreme height, low recoil, and CS's mix of plastic and rubber. Flame is a round Metal Wheel that sits very high up compared to other Metal Wheels, which combined with the extreme height of 230 and CS tends to force opponents to hit only 230's smooth plastic surface instead of more recoily metal. 230's small radius compared to a Metal Wheel also means that an opponent hitting it will lose a lot more Stamina from the collision than the 230 combo will, making it great at dealing with shorter combos that can't reach Flame itself.

230's ability to put a combo completely out of reach of short opponents is a critical factor for the height metagame, because shorter is usually better - up until you're too short to hit 230 combos and start losing to them. There's something of a rock-paper-scissors of "tall beats short beats medium beats tall"; 230 outspins short Stamina and evades short Attackers, but Stamina or Attack at 145 height can hit 230 combos directly on the Metal Wheel and either knock them off balance or KO them. Defense/Stamina hybrids like Flame 230CS also lose to higher-Stamina tall combos, and TH170 acts as a less effective 230 alternative (when in 220 height mode) which also happens to beat regular 230 by being a little shorter and knocking it off balance using 170 or 195 heights.


(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: 2. EWD vs B:D? Seeing as how EWD is the more preferred base, but is also a lot more difficult to reasonably find (like wow, Beafowl is expensive), does B:D even compare?
I'm going to bring in two other Tips with similar functions for comparison here - WD and W2D.

WD is your baseline top-tier Stamina tip. It's been released a million times over, it's very easy to get, and it's more than good enough for most applications.

HOWEVER, EWD, W2D, and B : D are all potentially better than WD, assuming the gods of part wear and random manufacturing variation bless you with a good quality one.
EWD and W2D are generally comparable tips which are both a slight upgrade over WD, featuring superior LAD with no real drawbacks... assuming they're in good condition. Unfortunately, both tips only saw a few releases, and W2D's fine point and EWD's moving parts are susceptible to wear or defects that can ruin their performance.

B : D is also notoriously inconsistent out of the box, with wildly varying performance in both solo spin time and LAD depending on the fit and quality of its components - you can have a bearing that spins very freely (good solo time) but is wobbly (bad LAD), one which doesn't spin well but is firmly secured (low solo time, high LAD), or even a B : D that got messed up during production and is permanently skewed and is bad at everything. Depending on your luck with your B : D's quality and what you need it to do, it may be a very good or a very bad option. B : D also has the major disadvantage compared to a regular Tip of being locked at an awkward medium-tall height; it's set at practically the perfect height to get thrown around by any Attack type you encounter and is also a little taller than most spin steal combos would prefer to be. In spite of these limitations, a good B : D can arguably be the single best Stamina bottom provided that you don't need the Track height and gimmick flexibility offered by Tips like EWD/W2D.
Mar. 13, 2022  5:51 PM
 
(Mar. 13, 2022  8:21 AM)Cake Wrote:
(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: Old player here, haven't played since... Probably late MFB 2nd series (around when Horogium and Byxis were out.) I have a couple of questions.

Welcome back! I'll preface my answers with a note that there are currently two official tiers of MFB - MFB Standard Format (unrestricted aside from the usual bans on fakes etc), and MFB Limited Format (bans a large number of Metal Wheels to fix overall power levels to roughly the same as right before the release of Basalt and Hell). There's also Zero-G format, but the main difference there is that it's played in a Zero-G Stadium instead, and is nowhere near as popular as the other two formats.


With that in mind, I'll skip to your third question:
(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: 3. Does Zero-G/Shogun Steel have any compatible parts with MFB, or are they all not compatible/banned?
Zero-G/Shogun Steel replaces the Metal Wheel, Clear Wheel, and Face with Chrome Wheels, Crystal Wheels, and Stone Faces. These parts are not at all compatible with each other, but Tracks and Tips are the same between both Zero-G and regular MFB, so you can mix those at will. Zero-G's Synchrome gimmick allows you to combine 2 metal Chrome Wheels together instead of a metal Chrome Wheel and a plastic Crystal Wheel, which allows for incredibly heavy combos that dominate Standard Format. All Zero-G parts are legal in Standard; in Limited Format, Synchromes are banned, so you need to use the lighter Chrome+Crystal combos that better match other Limited-legal Beyblades.

Limited Format also has a ban on the "big disk" Tracks, including Hell Kerbecs' BD145, but also three other similar Tracks introduced in Zero-G: E230, SP230, and SA165.


(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: 1. Why does 230 seem to be the standard for stamina tracks? I sort of understand the idea of reducing metal-to-metal contact, but within that same vein, wouldn't metal-to-plastic be a major risk? When did 230 become the golden standard?
230's popularity in Limited Format is less about it being a good Stamina part and more about the format's abundance of strong Attack types sending other combos fleeing to the extremes of super tall/super short to try and avoid making strong contact. Flame _____ 230CS is a very common combo with a solid blend of Defense and Stamina thanks to its extreme height, low recoil, and CS's mix of plastic and rubber. Flame is a round Metal Wheel that sits very high up compared to other Metal Wheels, which combined with the extreme height of 230 and CS tends to force opponents to hit only 230's smooth plastic surface instead of more recoily metal. 230's small radius compared to a Metal Wheel also means that an opponent hitting it will lose a lot more Stamina from the collision than the 230 combo will, making it great at dealing with shorter combos that can't reach Flame itself.

230's ability to put a combo completely out of reach of short opponents is a critical factor for the height metagame, because shorter is usually better - up until you're too short to hit 230 combos and start losing to them. There's something of a rock-paper-scissors of "tall beats short beats medium beats tall"; 230 outspins short Stamina and evades short Attackers, but Stamina or Attack at 145 height can hit 230 combos directly on the Metal Wheel and either knock them off balance or KO them. Defense/Stamina hybrids like Flame 230CS also lose to higher-Stamina tall combos, and TH170 acts as a less effective 230 alternative (when in 220 height mode) which also happens to beat regular 230 by being a little shorter and knocking it off balance using 170 or 195 heights.


(Mar. 13, 2022  2:04 AM)FT-Sprite Wrote: 2. EWD vs BGrin? Seeing as how EWD is the more preferred base, but is also a lot more difficult to reasonably find (like wow, Beafowl is expensive), does BGrin even compare?
I'm going to bring in two other Tips with similar functions for comparison here - WD and W2D.

WD is your baseline top-tier Stamina tip. It's been released a million times over, it's very easy to get, and it's more than good enough for most applications.

HOWEVER, EWD, W2D, and B : D are all potentially better than WD, assuming the gods of part wear and random manufacturing variation bless you with a good quality one.
EWD and W2D are generally comparable tips which are both a slight upgrade over WD, featuring superior LAD with no real drawbacks... assuming they're in good condition. Unfortunately, both tips only saw a few releases, and W2D's fine point and EWD's moving parts are susceptible to wear or defects that can ruin their performance.

B : D is also notoriously inconsistent out of the box, with wildly varying performance in both solo spin time and LAD depending on the fit and quality of its components - you can have a bearing that spins very freely (good solo time) but is wobbly (bad LAD), one which doesn't spin well but is firmly secured (low solo time, high LAD), or even a B : D that got messed up during production and is permanently skewed and is bad at everything. Depending on your luck with your B : D's quality and what you need it to do, it may be a very good or a very bad option. B : D also has the major disadvantage compared to a regular Tip of being locked at an awkward medium-tall height; it's set at practically the perfect height to get thrown around by any Attack type you encounter and is also a little taller than most spin steal combos would prefer to be. In spite of these limitations, a good B : D can arguably be the single best Stamina bottom provided that you don't need the Track height and gimmick flexibility offered by Tips like EWD/W2D.

1. I've read up on MFB Standard and Limited formats, so I'm fairly familiar with them. Used to play standard way back when the only parts that were really banned was the old Libra wheel, pre-nerf. Had no idea that was how Synchroms worked, though. Was weird seeing combos like Genbull Genbull X Y. 

2. I've seen some of the bigger tracks and what they can do, not at all surprising that they got banned from Limited. They're almost like those fake, circular spark disks from the plastic generation. But good to know that Stone Faces and the Zero-G Metal/Crystal layers aren't compatible.

3. This is actually quite funny to hear, since back when I used to play a bit, in a hyper limited format (like, early Hasbro release), I used to run a Stamina combo of Flame Aquario DF145SD/WD (I forget which I was running, I think SD.) Burn and Earth weren't out yet, and had to play it fairly for the kids. I even wound up getting called out by one of the TOs there everyone's gotta use stock, which was lame. But that makes sense with things like Flash running around. Neat to see the logistics behind 230 vs X vs Y though. DF145 used to to be the golden standard when I played, or maybe AD145 was in testing... I forget. I just know DF was my go-to.

4. W2D is a contender? I would've thought that SD would've beaten it out overall, as it was a historic debate between WD and SD. BGrin sounds like it had the old Virgo and Earth wheel treatments, where mold variations would absolutely make or break the part. Yikes. I knew of wear and tear issues, as I used to have a high number of parts that were combat worn (especially my RFs lol.)

A lot of interesting information to really chew on. Sadly, there isn't any action around where I live, never was. I used to mostly play alone, and was possibly considering getting into it again after dropping my previous hobby. In case you couldn't tell I'm VERY much a Stamina player, lol. I might just end up grabbing a few random Beys for collection's purposes, as I already have a Thermal Pisces and Pre-HWS Pisces (along with an Emperor Forneus, but Forneus is just for collection's sake, being a shark theme.) Darn shame that stadiums are so expensive, and Hasbro's are trash.
Mar. 13, 2022  6:47 PM
 
EWD and W2D beat out WD and SD because they combine the advantages of both - the inner edge of EWD around its free-spinning point and W2D's "wave" act as a smaller cone similar to SD (which supports the Beyblade with less Stamina loss than the wider WD) and then transitions to the outer, WD-width edge as it starts to turn too slowly for the smaller base to support the combo.

W2D was overlooked for a long time in favor of EWD for reasons which aren't clear to me (I suspect it's mostly down to the wear issues) but it's been starting to make a resurgence, I think. SD's low usage is probably driven by how common WD is and the wider Tips' excellent stability at low RPMs that make them better choices in opposite-spin matchups.

As for 145-height Stamina, DF145 was overtaken by AD145 up until the introduction of W145 in Zero-G, which in turn replaced AD145 as the premier Track for pure Stamina at middle heights.


also I 100% respect the dedication to the shark themed Beyblades haha, Thermal Pisces was one of my first Beyblades and is still a favorite of mine.