World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. World Beyblade Organization Discuss worldbeyblade.org

A Case for Ads

Jun. 03, 2016  9:35 PM
 
It has long been the policy of the WBO not to have ads on our website. I strongly believe this needs to be reconsidered. The stated reason has always been that it does not look professional. While there is no great direct comparison for everything the WBO is, two sites relatively similar in audience (serebii.net, the premier Pokemon encyclopedia and duelingnetwork.com, the premier place for people to play Yu-Gi-Oh online) both carry ads across their webpages.

Current WBO Financial Situation


NOTE: ***These numbers are rough approximations***

IN




Income from passports (135 current holders): ~$1700 (assume $2000 in future years once everyone including those subscribed on Paypal are paying full $15 usd)
-Assuming current level of holders is relatively average
-Based on recent price increase, weighted average between new price and old

Income from Donations: ~$1000 from Burst (Black Knight Valkyrie Campaign) Faces, ~$500 from donations and T-shirt sales throughout rest of year

Income from AN: I believe they receive some sort of budget to host with? ~$200?

Total In: ~$3400-4000

OUT



Assume 5 active regions each hosting once per month with an average prize reimbursement of $25: $1500

Website Hosting, Design, and Maintenance: ~$1000

With $1000 in miscellaneous expenses including things like Beylottos, Scavenger Hunts etc., I would predict that the WBO cash balance is fairly close to zero at present. Which would make sense as to why there were no qualifiers this year and Beylottos have been few and far between.

Total Out: ~$2500-3500

Future Upside



With the North American launch of Burst, it is safe to assume that the number of passport holders will approach 250 and likely exceed it. With the same number of people receiving prizes at tournaments this will generate ~$1500 in revenue per year for the WBO.


OPPORTUNITY



Google adsense: On this platform, we designate a certain area on our website to host an ad and google provides us with the ads (it's very little work for the site hosts).
Which would look something like this:

[Image: ad_zpsev3zkntw.png]



For a website with traffic like ours, Google Adsense pays between .05-.25 per ad click. Assuming 100 visitors per day, each year this would bring in between $1825-9125 giving us a very good chance of doubling our budget which would likely lead to a return of qualifiers, bigger and better beylottos, and a whole lot more.

In the end, giving up a small amount of professionalism to likely double our budget shouldn't even be a tough decision.


How it would play out


Those who want to help the WBO would whitelist the site in their adblockers and click a few ads every time they check in and those who are super concerned with maintaining an ultra-professional image would still have the option to do so by maintaining their adblocking software.



P.S. Sorry this thread isn't super-detailed/well-done. My job requires ~75 hours per week and I'm getting very little sleep/don't have a ton of free time.
Jun. 03, 2016  9:41 PM
 
From my own personal user standpoint, I am all for it. I woukd definitely give the ads some clicks every visit, just as like a small donation each time
Jun. 03, 2016  10:59 PM
 
I'm sorry, but I personally have to give this a very very hard no. I've come close to no longer using my second favorite website (My Anime List) since they started using ads. Not only does it look unprofessional (especially when mature ads start popping up where they shouldn't), but they can cause browsers to slow down, computers to get viruses, and users to have difficulty using the site on mobile devices. As much as I love this website, I don't think I would be willing to disable adblock after the terrible experience I've been having on MAL.
Jun. 03, 2016  11:13 PM
 
I don't think the WBO could do ADs because Beyblade is copyrighted technically.
Jun. 03, 2016  11:17 PM
 
I really doubt your assessment is accurate in terms of prizes. UK has rarely every had prizes especially in the last few years with so few people. Also its definitely a no from me. And if the financial situation was bad i'm sure the committee would ask for help.
Jun. 04, 2016  12:35 AM
 
From working in video games, I have found that people generally tend to over-estimate their button clicks by about 900% meaning base click-projections are usually about nine-times what you end up with in reality. It's hard for me to believe you'd get the kind of return you're projecting.

I do not doubt you'd make a bit of money from ads. But if you were going to make only 10% of your projection, then dude, I could probably just give you the money and spare us all the trouble. But even if I did, I don't think this would make the kind of difference you're hoping for, so far as the WBO's activities are concerned.

As a disclaimer, I have basically never given money to the WBO either as donations or otherwise. I am so physically removed from the WBO hub that it's hard for me to see exactly where my money would end up in real life. Similarly, I'd rather pay-per-play at tournaments by choice (rather than own a passport) because then I know exactly what I am paying for and I may ultimately end up paying even more than the cost of a passport (which is a good thing, from my perspective). I also deliberately refrain from playing the WBO forum games (at least, in any serious way) because I do not want to take unfair advantage of the prizes by accidentally winning (not that I even could). I sheepishly like to think I have made my transaction with the WBO by creating and maintaining the Formula Bei thread, which contributes something the WBO would otherwise not have, even if I donated regularly.

Point being, I am a bad judge of the money situation at the WBO because I'm essentially not even a part of it. But I do often tell people outside the WBO how awesome and dedicated these forums are; and I use the lack of ads to illustrate to these people how pure the community really is. May I also use Beywiki BeybladeWiki as an example of the opposite.
Jun. 04, 2016  12:59 AM
 
I'm not sure the inclusion of ads on Beyblade Wiki indicates it as not being pure. The fact is that, due to being hosted on Wikia, ads are mandatory. And, as I've pointed out before, there is a setting in the user options to disable ads, as well as the option to use an adblocker on the site as well. I hardly endorse the ads on the site; I have ads turned off in my settings and an adblocker to avoid seeing any other potential ads. It's just part of the policy in the end, but that hardly removes the site's purity.

In regards to the WBO situation; it's a well thought plan, though I think there's a few too many assumptions going on here. You're assuming 100 unique visitor clicks a day for that amount, but are you certain that people are going to think "Oh look, it's a McDonalds advert! Better click it and find out about that!"? Or even one of those financial help ones? The projections seem a lot higher than they should be. Plus, as you've suggested in the OP; Adsense strictly prohibits instructing or encouraging users to click adverts, so you don't even have that option either.

Plus, as Ultra has pointed out; there's the assumption of funded tournaments there. I seem to see more tournaments than not that don't offer prizes like that, so I certainly can't believe that there's a $1500 yearly ($125 monthly) prediction for "prizes". Not that I'm complaining about the lack of prizes anyway, I think it's fine that they aren't included, but I just don't think it should be assumed that that much is being spent without actually knowing it.

Ultimately, I just feel ads would plague the site. They aren't visually pleasing, nor do I believe there would be a drastic monetary impact from it. Furthermore, if the WBO were in trouble, I'd sure they'd let us know, or even run a campaign similar to the Black Knight Valkyrie campaign that was run before. I have no issue with directly supporting the WBO with that, but ads just seem inconsistent and aren't visually pleasing either.

Though, I do have to commend you on thinking all of this out and doing the research for the benefit of the WBO. At least you've looked into an option like this to try to support the WBO, even if it isn't proving popular.
Jun. 04, 2016  1:13 AM
 
I agree with previous comments. The money to be gained from the ads is not very much. I take pleasure in being able to log in every day and browse the forums without ads on the sides. I understand that these numbers are not exactly but a couple seem pretty far off. I don't feel the need to type out paragraphs that say the same things as others have said. So I will finish this with saying that I would hate to see adds infect the WBO
Jun. 04, 2016  3:18 AM
 
I always liked the idea of advertisements
It would help build a larger community

@thesupremeone
Lel yes, I did understand that
Jun. 04, 2016  3:33 AM
 
(Jun. 04, 2016  3:18 AM)ashton pinto Wrote: I always liked the idea of advertisements
It would help build a larger community
Just to clarify, what Time is proposing isn't advertisements for the WBO, but advertisements for other stores, products, websites, etc. on the WBO in order to generate revenue.

I'd have to agree with Beylon and ~Mana~. The loss of professionalism to a degree isn't worth the small amount of money that would be generated by advertising, not to mention that the WBO would have to remind users regularly to actual click on the ads to generate revenue because no one will do it otherwise and their purpose will likely be forgotten as time goes on.
Jun. 04, 2016  9:08 PM
 
Honestly, my opinion on placing ads on the WBO is 50/50. Ads may be annoying or irritating to have around but it could benefit the WBO, as reasons state above. As long as there isn't too many ads, we'll be fine. I kinda don't like having so many ads around and if it does affect the website, such as slowing it down or anything, wouldn't that be bad? I went on Vimeo recently and as I was trying to watch a video, the website kept loading and it slowed the process because of so many ads.

There's pros and cons regards to this but we could reach to an agreement together.
Jun. 04, 2016  9:11 PM
 
I'd probably keep AdBlock on anyways.
They're a nuisance.
Jun. 04, 2016  9:25 PM
 
(Jun. 04, 2016  9:11 PM)Neo Wrote: I'd probably keep AdBlock on anyways.
They're a nuisance.

True, true. We can always use AdBlock lol.
Jun. 05, 2016  12:18 AM
 
(Jun. 04, 2016  9:25 PM)Brisk AquarioHD Wrote:
(Jun. 04, 2016  9:11 PM)Neo Wrote: I'd probably keep AdBlock on anyways.
They're a nuisance.

True, true. We can always use AdBlock lol.

True there is ad block. However some sites now will deny users access because they are using an adblocker - I don't know if that's the site's decision or if that's apart of the contract with the advertisers.
Jun. 05, 2016  12:53 AM
 
(Jun. 05, 2016  12:18 AM)Captain_Pancake Wrote: True there is ad block. However some sites now will deny users access because they are using an adblocker - I don't know if that's the site's decision or if that's apart of the contract with the advertisers.

It's still unreasonable to expect people to use adblockers (or even sign up) in order to enjoy a site though. At the very least, a significant portion of devices still don't actually have adblock functionality. And at best, adbock is a band-aid solution. Why compromise when there are better ways?
Jun. 07, 2016  12:44 PM
 
You know, I've been thinking about this and wanted to run something by everyone, as an alternative to third-party ads.

I notice boards have the ability to be divided into sections based on post-type. For example; the "Your Creations" forum has different sections for "Forum Announcements" and "Important Threads" and " Normal Threads" all on the same page.

So imagine this...

A user creates a thread, then pays the WBO to have their thread stickied in a "Sponsored Threads" section of whatever forum they want. This way, the user pays to have their thread remain at the top of the list, on the front page, for as long as their subscription lasts. Say... A month? So that if a user disappears, their thread will die with them.

This is basically advertising - but contained within the WBO and with content everyone who visits these forums will likely be interested in. Might not even earn as much as third-party ads; but you earn money, without third-party ads.

I imagine such a system would be good for dedicated youtuber threads, blogs, video tournaments, user-run contests and anything else with recurring content. Might even encourage people to tend to their threads more carefully. You'll notice that multiple board sections does not seem to clutter the "Your Creations" forum either, which is nice.

I don't know. Maybe it's the mead talking.
Jun. 07, 2016  1:45 PM
 
As long as the WBO gets more money I'm all for it. The budget has been so low that qualifiers haven't been able to get going. As long as we can bring back fun events like that ads are only a small cost. However, if we aren't able to because of Beyblade copyrights or whatever it would all be a waste.
Jun. 07, 2016  2:01 PM
 
(Jun. 07, 2016  1:45 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: As long as the WBO gets more money I'm all for it. The budget has been so low that qualifiers haven't been able to get going. As long as we can bring back fun events like that ads are only a small cost. However, if we aren't able to because of Beyblade copyrights or whatever it would all be a waste.

I was trying to word my post but couldn't when this thread was made, and you summed up my thoughts perfectly.
Jun. 07, 2016  3:19 PM
 
(Jun. 07, 2016  1:45 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: As long as the WBO gets more money I'm all for it. The budget has been so low that qualifiers haven't been able to get going. As long as we can bring back fun events like that ads are only a small cost. However, if we aren't able to because of Beyblade copyrights or whatever it would all be a waste.

The qualifiers were an extremely generous and expensive proposition to begin with; the fact that they were able to happen once, during a height of activity, should not lead to an expectation that they will always happen.

I have a lot more to say about this topic but haven't had the chance to do it yet. But thanks for starting the discussion Time!
Aug. 25, 2016  12:57 PM
 
My field of expertise is marketing, social media and e-commerce. I can tell you right now that ads on this side will not help you. A few pointers:

1) You gave a top-down projection, rather than a bottom-up projection. You will not make what you think you're going to make.

2) Ads are a thing of the past. Sure, you still see them around, but let's think about the future rather than 1 year down the line. The most downloaded plugin ever is Ad-block. People HATE ads. When was the last time you clicked a banner ad on purpose? I'm pretty sure the answer is "err... 2009?" --- Getting into banner ads right now, is like saying "Ohh, this television thing might be an opportunity" in 2004, whereas the biggest opportunities were in the 90s.

3) Not only will your income be smaller than you think, your members will just not like the new experience. WBO currently holds the most valuable asset marketing knows: attention. Your site has a VERY active and tight community. There's way more opportunity for income in that than ads. There's ways to monetize that can bring value to both sides, not just one. (The WBO book, for example... You could easily sell it on Amazon for a small price. Their current Print-On-Demand publishing is so damn easy and cheap) // (Sponsored content; giving legitimate value in an article whilst highlighting a relevant product) // (Affiliate marketing; still kind of late with this one, but can still be valuable.) // Make a legitimate WBO store? Not sure how practical that is. But if you could somehow get a store section on the site and then become a retailer, every single blader here would shift stores. (If you're as cheap as the cheapest retailer of course)

Sorry for the long comment. These were just quick thoughts and I didn't really name everything yet Smile
Aug. 25, 2016  2:51 PM
 
I never did follow up here, but I generally agree with @[Maxime Solemn]. (I've also worked in digital marketing and advertising for eight years and follow business and marketing tech closely.)

I don't think automated ad networks would provide an experience that fits well on this site, ad blocker usage is high and likely particularly high among our audience (would need to check), and the income would likely be pretty small, especially among our highly focused audience.

If we do run ads, expect them to be boutique ads that we run for sponsors (likely Beyblade sellers) directly. This would likely provide more meaningful income, be a better experience for users here, and help support the Beyblade marketplace and promote high-quality sellers.

Other than that, I would like to do more fundraisers. face booster alpha was a big success for us and I think people were happy with what they got in exchange. I'd like to continue looking for ways for us to raise funds in ways that make the community here happy as well.

I am a big fan of "the web"; I've been creating websites and online communities since I was 12 years old. There are very few websites like the WBO still out there, and I wouldn't want to do anything that would make using the WBO a worse experience.