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MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230WF/MF..

May. 20, 2011  2:45 AM
 
Okay, so Bluezee and I were talking, long story short we were talking about counters to LT; I told him about MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230WF, he said 'no way' and as it turns out, he was messing around with MF-H Basalt Aquario 230MF. We're going to share this predominant Basalt 230 aggressor, he will be testing MF as he doesn't have WF and I'll be testing WF since I don't have MF. Before you ask, we won't/haven't come up with a conclusion on which bottom would be better, so no arguments required here. Use whichever bottom you prefer. This combination is consistent, and does not get varying results from person to person, as past counters have. Cye, I still want you to tell me some of your counters to LT, as I am curious to what you have come up with.

WF Results (Click to View)


MF Results (Click to View)

So there it is, not the best results but a hell of a lot better than results gotten by Bluezee and I with different so-called 'counters'. Much more consistent as well, Stamina/Defense results will be up tomorrow from both of us, but the upside of these first-glance 'lack-luster' results [then again, compared to other 'Counters', its dayum good] is that not only does it consistently beat LT, but it's maneuverability will make taking out Stamina and Defense types an easy chore. I'm not expecting fan-mail, nor is Bluezee. So, release the hordes!!
-May I add, these results are coming from experienced Lightning Tank users, you will most definitely get better. Though, if you get better results, you are not somehow godly at LT, just in case some of you assume.. Thanks for reminding me to put this up Pocky.

Edit: Cye is a no-show with his secret counters.
Aquario is interchangeable with Kerbecs, in case some of you were wondering.
May. 20, 2011  2:50 AM
 
Yup. Thus is definitely the combo to counter LT if there is any that can do it. Let's see how long this last before someone triEs to claim they used it first .
May. 20, 2011  2:52 AM
 
any results with LRF sorry if you don't have it though i love MF tip combos
May. 20, 2011  2:55 AM
 
This combination seems more viable than "Dragon Punisher" as it at least has a chance VS right spinning beys. I don't like the 50 - 50 win rate, but it's something I guess.

Thanks for the thread both of you, however Dan may I ask why you wrote down MM vs Rook (WF ver) in the MF section?
May. 20, 2011  2:55 AM
 
.. When I first came up with LT, on my own accord, I used RF and got great results. Bluezee, at the simultaneously used LRF. I didn't use LRF because mine was too broken. I like using RF, I swear, if this becomes a battleground over Rubber Flats..

Pocky; My mistake, to save time I always C+P leading to small errors. All fixed afterwards though.. :V
May. 20, 2011  3:03 AM
 
(May. 20, 2011  2:55 AM)Pockyx3 Wrote: This combination seems more viable than "Dragon Punisher" as it at least has a chance VS right spinning beys. I don't like the 50 - 50 win rate, but it's something I guess.

Thanks for the thread both of you, however Dan may I ask why you wrote down MM vs Rook (WF ver) in the MF section?
We know it's more viable than Dragon Punisher . That was established a long time ago when the Dragon Punisher thread was introduced and even in the LT thread......
May. 20, 2011  3:07 AM
 
True, Punisher is very good at countering. But then again, the fail to impress MM was unsatisfied. Just out of thought, I'm NOT saying which is better, but WF seems to have a better countering rate.

Looks nice, Dan.
May. 20, 2011  3:14 AM
 
Bluezee was using an LRF, so better results are had with LT.
May. 20, 2011  3:47 AM
 
Interesting.

Where did the Time Rook Come from? Tongue_out

Does it Self KO at all? Just Curious.

So this is supposed to be just a Counter to LT or a Good Combo?
May. 20, 2011  3:50 AM
 
We know not of its origins. No, it doesn't thats why I used WF rather than XF, making it easier for you guys. I can't speak for MF, but I think the same goes. Its an LT killer, predominantly, but it is capable in other fields too. I wrote that in OP.. :V
May. 20, 2011  6:22 AM
 
I love how it is XX.5% for WF Tongue_out but nice results anyway
May. 20, 2011  2:14 PM
 
Hahaha, if you self KO with MF, you're doing something wrong, so no, MF shouldn't self KO unless you mess up your launch. Interesting results, I'm shocked it does so well.

Also, excellent testing, 40 rounds must have been FUN FUN FUN? Tongue_out

Anyway, I just played around with MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 230MF against MF Beat Lynx R145R2F. I can't do proper tests as my R145 and GB145 are broken and don't sit perfectly flat, but from what I saw, it might do okay against Beat as well. Maybe.

If Beat gets in a good direct hit early enough, it'll send basalt flying, but the speed and movement of the basalt combo mean it's quite hard to score a direct hit. I'm guessing that, along with Basalt's usual Stopping Power that slows other combo's so heavily, are a large part in the success of this combo. Smacking into that weight which is now moving at speed on a fairly steady bottom is probably, at least for beat, really stopping beat in it's tracks

Also, I'd think MM would Outspin or KO this, right?
May. 20, 2011  3:14 PM
 
Both, it would yes.
WF seems immune to the spin-stealing effect of the Lightning Tank/
May. 20, 2011  6:15 PM
 
(May. 20, 2011  3:14 PM)Dan Wrote: Both, it would yes.
WF seems immune to the spin-stealing effect of the Lightning Tank/
That's what I thought. BTW, has Punisher been tried with LT? I'd like to see this in action. A double counter. Something tells me that MF instead of WF Versus Punisher would get a better win %rate.
May. 20, 2011  6:15 PM
 
I really loved this combo before my metal flat chipped. The reasons in slight physics language:
Mass & Speed = centrifugal force feeding spin (less spin needed when hung on the tornado ridge), this is at it's best when the mass is greater, therefore incredible tornado stalling abilities.

I assume your not trying to perform any sliding shoots so I would like to say that MF Gravity Perseus BD145MF (left spin counter) is a viable weakness to this combo? In that that BD145MF can both KO and OS 230CS, the same rules apply.

I can not currently do any tests, so if you have 2 Metal Flats, feel free.

For MF Gravity Perseus BD145MF pull at 70% so it stays away from the tornado ridge.

Lastly I think it will really show people the ability of this combo when you do results against MF-H Hell BD145WD/D, MF-H Basalt BD145MB (obvious tornado stall?) and other more commonly thought as "stamina".
May. 20, 2011  6:20 PM
 
Mass-Speed sentence is exactly why I thought of this, and I can only assume Bluezee as well. I'd like to see your results since he said he told you about the MF version awhile ago. I think it would be easier to bank rather than slide-shoot this, and maybe a tad more effective? I'm not familiar with that combination first-hand, so I'll take you word (and hopefully soon your tests, too) for it.
May. 20, 2011  7:21 PM
 
Just as I expected LT is countered. Also dan can you try it with Hell Mold 2? Its more heavier and durable.
May. 20, 2011  7:25 PM
 
(May. 20, 2011  7:21 PM)® Wrote: Just as I expected LT is countered. So it isn't fall if the metagme. Stupid title if you ask me. Also dan can you try it with Hell Mold 2? Its more heavier and durable.
OK your second sentence doesn't make sense.

Also everyone has covered the stupid title name already, leave it.

Sonokong Hell, how much more does it weigh?

Dan
I mentioned my chip metal flat which hops and rattles on movement, therefore i will wait for a few days for my metal flat to arrive.
May. 20, 2011  7:32 PM
 
We need a thread to combine all the info on different molds and reinforcement points and such, and different molds in other parts (there's at least two slightly different bd145 molds), I'm sure I'm not the only person who has trouble keeping track of them all...

Glad you noticed the chip Control_, I have a tiny chip in one of my metal flat's, which is hard to see, but has quite a detrimental effect on stamina.
May. 20, 2011  7:43 PM
 
My chip made my metal flat vulnerable for more chips - Which is exactly what happened, surrounding it with a fatter chip which makes the bottom probably illegal as it acts like a soft M145Q.

The molds have been noticed for many parts, but some have decided to make a whole thread for it; in some cases the difference between mold 1 and 2 Gravity Wheels. Perhaps it would be a good idea to throw all the mold differences into one thread as an overall where the sub-threads can be used for the chat necessary for each part.

Before my new Metal Flat arrives, TH170MF, how does it do?
May. 20, 2011  7:55 PM
 
Not Sonokong, a TT. From the Random Booster Vol 7. It has less stamina but more defense.
May. 20, 2011  8:02 PM
 
(May. 20, 2011  7:55 PM)® Wrote: Not Sonokong, a TT. From the Random Booster Vol 7. It has less stamina but more defense.
What are you talking about? Yamislayer made the thread mentioning mold 2 being SonoKong. Vol. 7 is claimed to be mold 1, the regular TT starter version.

On topic now please.
May. 20, 2011  8:16 PM
 
No... the gold painted one was weighted lower than the RBV7 Mold. And lets get back on topic! Im pretty impressive with dan. I never thought MF would be useful on 230s =p
May. 20, 2011  8:16 PM
 
Ooh wow, that sucks. Confused

I'll check it out tomorrow, everyone here is asleep right now, and I don't want to get screamed at. My main concern would be that TH220/195/170 has a lot more contact points than the relative roundness of 230, though how much that matters, I don't know.
May. 20, 2011  8:40 PM
 
Hah, the funny thing is that this was the "secret" combo bey bob was going to use for Bey Days 2011. He wanted me to test it, but I just did a little, and didn't get much out of it. I don't know what I did. I'm going to redo them a bit later.

Also, why "The Time Rook"? What does it mean? Probably missed it.

The barely more than 50% win rate doesn't look too to me. In a tournament situation, if you just have a bad launch, you could lose. That's just me though.

Edit - Yay! 1000th post! Just need some good ones now!
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