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+--- Thread: Product B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction (/Thread-Product-B-117-Starter-Revive-Phoenix-10-Friction)
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - DaJetsnake - Jul. 20, 2018
Anybody who has rP, do you think Friction could be used in attack combos?
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - iiggoor - Jul. 20, 2018
(Jul. 20, 2018 10:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: ... look all over for a mold marking, but sadly none are present on mine. Kind of wish there was for easier identification if there are actually significant mold differences.
There is mold mark, on layer's frame (armour). It's A3 on mine. No mark on layer's core though.
It's a bit loose for me too, after set up. Actually, I'm more considered about being broken when hits wall hard (happens sometimes), than while it's mounted on core.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - sonyat - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 20, 2018 10:58 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: I did discover that the last tooth on mine is pretty finnicky, and putting on the armor after tightening the main layer can cause it to loosen slightly (sort of half a click?). I've had to work around this by twisting the driver itself to make sure everything stays together as it should.
Read your post and went to check, and I have to agree with you about the last tooth being troublesome on my loose rP. It does the same thing which could be why the teeth don't feel as tight as my other one, possibly. That, or the moulds went wrong somewhere along the line in general.
Is there anywhere specific I should be looking to see if we can differentiate between the moulds (if that truly is the issue)?
Just saw iiggoor's post. Sorry about that! My loose one is an A4 and my tight one A3.
(Jul. 20, 2018 10:59 PM)DaJetsnake Wrote: Anybody who has rP, do you think Friction could be used in attack combos?
I've been experimenting with it on some attack layers and it's not doing as badly as I thought it might. It has a solid performance on Winning Valkyrie if it can get the hits in (wV.7B/M.Fr and wV.10B/M/U.Fr in particular). Some over finishes and a looot of bursts, which I've become used to not seeing with Cho-Z.
It really does depend if you want it for fun or competitive in the end. I'm having a blast putting together combos for attack types with Friction, but I don't play competitively at the moment.
...It's horrible on Bloody Longinus no matter what I try, though that might just be bL itself. -_-
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - MagikHorse - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 20, 2018 11:29 PM)iiggoor Wrote: There is mold mark, on layer's frame (armour). It's A3 on mine. No mark on layer's core though.
Where is this mark? I've looked all over my frame and can't find one anywhere.
Found it. Mine's an A2 mold. Man, that thing is really well hidden, as I had to shine a flashlight at the underside before finding it in one of those hollows. Either way, mine's been working well half the time and poorly half the time, and when it works it really, really works.
Also been doing a bit of testing, and I'm not concerned about Revive Phoenix being OP at all. Winning Valkyrie 0Bump Eternal has more Stamina and can outlast it, and pure Stamina types like Deep Chaos and Archer Hercules counter it easily. Seriously, stock Archer Hercules beats stock Revive Phoenix with impunity, and that's while running the unimpressive 13 against the amazing 10.
I have yet to see more than one click of damage even against Winning Valkyrie, which means the armor popping off at worst. Haven't run it against any Xtreme-based attackers yet because it's getting late and I don't want to disturb the parents, but I figure Revive Phoenix will hold out well against them with its high burst resistance and weight. That's probably all the layer is good for right now, but the disk and driver both have a lot of potential and the launcher has an even longer ripcord than the L/R launcher that came with Spriggan Requiem, although not by much.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - sonyat - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 3:25 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: Found it. Mine's an A2 mold. Man, that thing is really well hidden, as I had to shine a flashlight at the underside before finding it in one of those hollows. Either way, mine's been working well half the time and poorly half the time, and when it works it really, really works.
Also been doing a bit of testing, and I'm not concerned about Revive Phoenix being OP at all. Winning Valkyrie 0Bump Eternal has more Stamina and can outlast it, and pure Stamina types like Deep Chaos and Archer Hercules counter it easily. Seriously, stock Archer Hercules beats stock Revive Phoenix with impunity, and that's while running the unimpressive 13 against the amazing 10.
I have yet to see more than one click of damage even against Winning Valkyrie, which means the armor popping off at worst. Haven't run it against any Xtreme-based attackers yet because it's getting late and I don't want to disturb the parents, but I figure Revive Phoenix will hold out well against them with its high burst resistance and weight. That's probably all the layer is good for right now, but the disk and driver both have a lot of potential and the launcher has an even longer ripcord than the L/R launcher that came with Spriggan Requiem, although not by much.
So if an A1 mould is a thing, there's currently four different moulds out there and no telling which is performing better currently. I'm interested to hear what moulds others have and how well the layer's working for them.
I'll have to play around with some more combos tomorrow, but yikes... stock aH stomping stock rP. Not surprising giving rP's balance issues. Once it topples, it's done for 95% of the time. 10 is certainly up there with 0 and 7, though, and Friction is seriously hard-hitting when put on the right combo. Has amazing stamina when balanced. I didn't think we'd see a driver without a free-spinning element that'd prove able to stand up to Atomic.
rP does do well against Xtreme, however I wonder if that's more driver-based than layer-based when all's said and done. Its shape and teeth most definitely contribute, no question about it, but if a defense or stamina-based rP combo is pitted against an equally balanced Xtreme combo, would it not come down to Xtreme's lack of stamina? Cho-Z beys are notoriously hard to burst in general, and no matter the combo—God or Cho-Z layers—I've yet to find one that rivals what Xtreme could do in previous systems. Your analyses are always excellent and informative. I don't doubt that I'm missing something due to lack of experience, so I'm eager to learn if you're okay with breaking it down for me.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - MagikHorse - Jul. 21, 2018
Revive Phoenix is imbalanced as much as any other Super-Z bey, but it's nothing notable here from what I've seen, and I haven't seen it get even close to scraping the floor or threatening to topple over sooner than expected. Then again, I already said I haven't had time to test it against Xtreme, and impacts of that speed might be able to do this. Either way, I kind of want to know why you think Revive Phoenix has balance issues.
Even though Xtreme has a lack of Stamina, Revive Phoenix is also lackluster for Stamina as well. Not as bad as anything with Xtreme since that rubber drags it down by so much, but still less Stamina than any other Super-Z layer released so far (presumably. I don't own Vice Leopard yet and don't have a clue where it stands, and Xcaliber's off-kilter weight might do even worse). In the end though, Xtreme-based attackers have to either win by KO (hard to do to Revive Phoenix, since it's the heaviest Super-Z layer, outweighing Hell Salamander by about 2 grams) or burst (also hard to do against Revive Phoenix's armor and high burst resistance). Between these two options, the only way an Xtreme-based attacker stands a chance is to either get really lucky or knock off the armor and then proceed in knocking out the lighter bey from there.
Although wins against Xtreme mainly happen because of Xtreme's terrible Stamina loss, Revive Phoenix is the main thing that prevents the combo from being bursted or knocked out, and thusly matters equally as much as its driver.
With the lowest amount of Stamina comes a great weakness to other Defense or Stamina beys though. Since Revive Phoenix has the lowest stamina of Super-Z layers, fighting against other Super-Z layers with a pure Stamina build is just going to result in a loss unless a lucky KO or burst happens as a fluke or the popped armor makes a serious contribution in Revive Phoenix's favor. That all seems highly unlikely to me, so I see Revive Phoenix being used as an anti-Xtreme part primarily.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - BladerGem - Jul. 21, 2018
From what I'm hearing based on other people's impressions, it sounds to me like rP is actually sticking to the type charts, rather than being another hybrid monstrosity, which could be good. We've seen enough mG's and Sr's for two generations, lol
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - iiggoor - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 12:08 AM)sonyat Wrote: ... My loose one is an A4 and my tight one A3.
Happy to see that :) Wanted to say that my A3 seems to have strong teeth, but that means nothing while can't compare to anything else.
Edit - meant about armour teeth, but layer's teeth are good also.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Rebel Blader - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 7:25 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: Revive Phoenix is imbalanced as much as any other Super-Z bey, but it's nothing notable here from what I've seen, and I haven't seen it get even close to scraping the floor or threatening to topple over sooner than expected. Then again, I already said I haven't had time to test it against Xtreme, and impacts of that speed might be able to do this. Either way, I kind of want to know why you think Revive Phoenix has balance issues.Dont really see that rP is that bad stamina wise i have seen stock rP to outspin stock eF so basically i think only formal testing will tell how bad it is stamina wise
Even though Xtreme has a lack of Stamina, Revive Phoenix is also lackluster for Stamina as well. Not as bad as anything with Xtreme since that rubber drags it down by so much, but still less Stamina than any other Super-Z layer released so far (presumably. I don't own Vice Leopard yet and don't have a clue where it stands, and Xcaliber's off-kilter weight might do even worse). In the end though, Xtreme-based attackers have to either win by KO (hard to do to Revive Phoenix, since it's the heaviest Super-Z layer, outweighing Hell Salamander by about 2 grams) or burst (also hard to do against Revive Phoenix's armor and high burst resistance). Between these two options, the only way an Xtreme-based attacker stands a chance is to either get really lucky or knock off the armor and then proceed in knocking out the lighter bey from there.
Although wins against Xtreme mainly happen because of Xtreme's terrible Stamina loss, Revive Phoenix is the main thing that prevents the combo from being bursted or knocked out, and thusly matters equally as much as its driver.
With the lowest amount of Stamina comes a great weakness to other Defense or Stamina beys though. Since Revive Phoenix has the lowest stamina of Super-Z layers, fighting against other Super-Z layers with a pure Stamina build is just going to result in a loss unless a lucky KO or burst happens as a fluke or the popped armor makes a serious contribution in Revive Phoenix's favor. That all seems highly unlikely to me, so I see Revive Phoenix being used as an anti-Xtreme part primarily.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - sonyat - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 7:25 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: Either way, I kind of want to know why you think Revive Phoenix has balance issues.
Although wins against Xtreme mainly happen because of Xtreme's terrible Stamina loss, Revive Phoenix is the main thing that prevents the combo from being bursted or knocked out, and thusly matters equally as much as its driver.
Bad word choice and poor clarity on my part. I'm not as articulate as I'd like these days, my apologies. You're absolutely correct, it's only as imbalanced as the rest of the Cho-Z line. I should've said it destabilizes on its stock combo the same way Hell Salamander does. Both stock forms will destabilize fairly easily and start scraping the stadium. Once Revive Phoenix does that it has a difficult time recovering if the armour doesn't burst based on my admittedly limited experience. Every part does play into it—the layer and disc complement each other IMO—but it seems to be an issue with Friction's tip being... too small? Possibly? (Poor word choice getting me again.) For rP to successfully stay upright for the duration of most matches. It could very well be my launch technique, honestly.
It's just been my experience so far that rP either keeps stability wonderfully on stock or destabilizes with a moderate to hard impact and begins to scrape. Basically, the scraping outcome is vastly different when Revive Phoenix is put on a more stable combo like 10B/C/0B/C.At/Et, similar to Hell Salamander. I'll have to test some more with rP on Friction to see if it's user error or the driver simply doesn't synchronize well with the layer.
Thank you for elaborating. All great stuff. I understand where you're coming from and it makes a lot of sense. I'll keep in mind giving other parts more thought to achieve a cohesive whole like you've explained. I appreciate the awesome breakdown.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - MagikHorse - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 9:25 AM)Rebel Blader Wrote: Dont really see that rP is that bad stamina wise i have seen stock rP to outspin stock eF so basically i think only formal testing will tell how bad it is stamina wise
I did some solo spin testing on 10 Eternal to actually ascertain this, and got some interesting results from the super-Z layers.
Revive Phoenix w/Armor - 1'47"
Hell Salamander** - 1'29"
Emperor Forneus* - 1'28"
Crash Ragnaruk - 1'27"
Bloody Longinus** - 1'19"
Archer Hercules - 1'18"
Hazard Kerbeus - 1'12"
Revive Phoenix W/O Armor - 1'07"
Z Achilles* - 47"
Winning Valkyrie - 41"
* These layers are significantly lightweight compared to other Super-Z layers, and being launched at my kind of strength sent them careening into walls early because of their off-balanced nature. These times would reasonably be slightly higher if I had a stadium wide enough without any sort of walls to hit, but even then probably not by much.
**These were launched with the L/R ripcord launcher instead of the Phoenix winder, because left spin.
Turns out I'm both wrong and right here. Revive Phoenix has the most impressive solo spin time out of all layers by about 18 seconds, although it becomes the third worst when the armor pops off or you launch Revive Phoenix without it. Not quite the absolute worst I claimed, but that's not everything either, is it? Even if the armor stays on, a stationary Winning Valkyrie combo can outspin it in combat. That can only mean one thing: Revive Phoenix's rough edges make it lose an extraordinary amount of energy on contact with opponents. It's the most reasonable way for the best Stamina layer to lose to the worst Stamina layer by outspinning so consistently even if the armor doesn't pop off in battle. This is one reason why Crash Ragnaruk and Archer Hercules do so well for Stamina with moderate spin times, because they're both pretty smooth layers that are able to retain their spin through contact.
In other words, Revive Phoenix has the best Stamina, but only if it can avoid being hit entirely and losing it to contact or through losing its armor. Maybe some sort of Mobile Defense combo could come out of it, but Revive Phoenix is pretty wide with its armor and might hinder it there.
BTW Emperor Forneus has a distinct weakness of losing Stamina easily when Yard drags on the ground, so once again comparing stocks isn't always going to be fair as Friction beats Yard hands-down.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - BoostedBlader - Jul. 21, 2018
The gimmick is unexpected
I wonder If my zA 7Meteor Iron can beat it
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - TL14 - Jul. 21, 2018
I like to use LC Revive Phoenix 0-Star Orbit. It's really good as far as I can tell from the test battles I've done together with @[DraconicArt] last weekend.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - CageRaidHD - Jul. 21, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 7:53 PM)TL14 Wrote: I like to use LC Revive Phoenix 0-Star Orbit. It's really good as far as I can tell from the test battles I've done together with @[DraconicArt] last weekend.
Yeah my fav comb with the Revive Phoenix layer is 0-Bump Orbit
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Infinite.Zero - Jul. 22, 2018
(Jul. 21, 2018 7:48 PM)BoostedBlader Wrote: The gimmick is unexpectedWhy iron. Destroy is good to
I wonder If my zA 7Meteor Iron can beat it
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - BoostedBlader - Jul. 23, 2018
True but I don't have destroy
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Beymax - Jul. 23, 2018
rP has been strong and effective for us, even in stock configuration. The tourney we used it in had a lot of bladers using Salamanders and Hercules and the rP usually came out on top, for Ignitor1121 and me. Had it in my deck for the finals but didn’t end up using it.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Infinite.Zero - Jul. 24, 2018
(Jul. 23, 2018 8:15 PM)Beymax Wrote: rP has been strong and effective for us, even in stock configuration. The tourney we used it in had a lot of bladers using Salamanders and Hercules and the rP usually came out on top, for Ignitor1121 and me. Had it in my deck for the finals but didn’t end up using it.aH 7.Et will easily DESTROY any rP combo.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - leosama - Jul. 24, 2018
(Jul. 24, 2018 5:49 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:(Jul. 23, 2018 8:15 PM)Beymax Wrote: rP has been strong and effective for us, even in stock configuration. The tourney we used it in had a lot of bladers using Salamanders and Hercules and the rP usually came out on top, for Ignitor1121 and me. Had it in my deck for the finals but didn’t end up using it.aH 7.Et will easily DESTROY any rP combo.
I haven’t tested yet but Revive Phoenix’s wings (armour removed) look like high destabilisation potential, and I’ve heard that Archer Hercules is easily destabilised.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Infinite.Zero - Jul. 24, 2018
Just use atomic.
Forgot to quote.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - BusyBlader - Jul. 24, 2018
Mine just came in, and may I just say it is BEAUTIFUL! Paired with the Mugen base, It really fits the Phoenix design, Will do testing soon.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - KinkoUsagi - Jul. 24, 2018
(Jul. 24, 2018 4:17 PM)BusyBlader Wrote: Mine just came in, and may I just say it is BEAUTIFUL! Paired with the Mugen base, It really fits the Phoenix design, Will do testing soon.
What? Really? Would you be able to take a photo of it with the Mugen performance tip?
Also, I'm going to do a review of all three Revive Phoenix (Skeleton ver., regular, Black ver.), the promotional layers (Wyvern red ver., Z-Achilles Phoenix ver., Bloody Longinus red ver.) and the yellow God Chip. Just waiting on my Black Revive Phoenix.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Red aXe - Jul. 30, 2018
Got mine two days ago . It's A4(both armor and core) but it's extremely hard to burst. Even my zA. 0M.O couldn't burst it. In ten rounds the Armour came of only 3 times. Most were spin and over finishes but rP burst zA with the loss of its Armour. I think this bey is a monster.
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - leosama - Jul. 30, 2018
(Jul. 30, 2018 4:56 AM)Red aXe Wrote: Got mine two days ago . It's A4(both armor and core) but it's extremely hard to burst. Even my zA. 0M.O couldn't burst it. In ten rounds the Armour came of only 3 times. Most were spin and over finishes but rP burst zA with the loss of its Armour. I think this bey is a monster.
Which part of the core has the A4 marking?
RE: B-117 Starter Revive Phoenix 10 Friction - Red aXe - Jul. 30, 2018
(flipped over) It's on the left side of the diamond(where the level chip goes) opposite to the screw. You need to illuminate it with a flashlight.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15SGD36XCFzTaEKYIzB2mIG1iowZhLmWd/view?usp=drivesdk