(Aug. 01, 2013  3:44 PM)ShinobuXD Wrote: I believe I did Balro Balro CH120 R2F. You can see its thread.

Revizer Dragooon SA165 RDF is a beast for stamina, and worlds better than EWD with a worn RDF IMO. I'll def. try to do this.

Spoiler (Click to View)

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Duo Cygnus W145WD
Beys alternated launching first. Mint WD.
Genbull: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 0/10
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 100%

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Duo Cygnus 230D
Beys alternated launching first.
Genbull: wins, 10/20 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 50%

This was pretty much dead-even. It all came down to which was launched first.

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. MF-H Duo Cygnus 230MB
Beys lalternated launching first.
Genbull: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
Cygnus: wins, 12/20 (All OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 40%

This was really, really close. Each match came down to only a couple rotations, but Duo was able to squeak a lead out of it.

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Reviser Killerken BD145CS
Beys alternated launching first. Calm CS.
Genbull: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Killerken: wins, 0/10
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 100%

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. MF-H Duo Aquario BD145CS
Beys lalternated launching first. Calm CS.
Genbull: wins, 14/20 (All OS)
Aquario: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 70%

Duo was able to seriously destabilize Genbull during this match, and it actually pulled out a 30% win rate on it. I'm concerned about this combo's balance, bu it may have just been an awkward height match-up.

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
Beys alternated launching first.
Genbull: wins, 0/10
Dragooon: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 0%

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF
Beys alternated launching first. Worn-ish RDF.
Genbull: wins, 0/10
Dragooon: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 0%

Yah... this thing has a bit of a problem with opposite-spin. However, so do 230 stamina types, so I don't see why that would be any reason to disqualify it from the list.

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Flash Orion GB145R2F
Genbull launched first on all launches. Barely-out-of-its-prime R2F.
Genbull: wins, 7/20 (2 OS, 5 KO)
Orion: wins, (12 KO, 1 OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 35%

Genbull got a few freak-KOs in this match.

Genbull Genbull TH170TB vs. Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F.
Genbull launched first on all launches. Barely-out-of-its-prime R2F.
Genbull: wins, 3/20 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 17/20 (15 KO, 2 OS)
Genbull Genbull TH170TB win rate: 15%

Complete slaughter...

Anyway, the only problem I see with this combo is that it's very, very easy to destabilize with a bey of significantly different height, but I think with a strong, level launch it won't be too much of a problem in the long-run. I think this is worthy of the tier-list, at least IMO.

(Aug. 01, 2013  3:52 PM)AZL Wrote: Would phantom 160PD work?

(Aug. 01, 2013  4:43 PM)ShinobuXD Wrote: What height was TH170 at?

(Aug. 01, 2013  6:18 PM)Insomniac Wrote: Does Genbull Genbull only perform well on TH170 and SR120TB Stamina customs? Has it been mirror tested against already top-tier Duo and Phantom Stamina combos much at all?

(Aug. 07, 2013  12:29 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: Did a few tests for Reviser Dragooon SA165 RDF with a new RDF this afternoon:
Launchers: left spin string for Dragooon & Light Launcher 2 for all right spin beys
Launch style: standard. Alternated launching each round.
Duo Cancer W145 BWD vs Reviser Dragooon SA165 RDF
Duo: 15/20 wins (all OS)
Dragooon: 5/20 wins (all KO)
Dragooon win rate: 25%

Phantom Kerbecs 230 SD vs Reviser Dragooon SA165 RDF
Phantom: 0/10
Dragooon: 10/10 (5 OS, 5 KO)
Dragooon win rate: 100%

Death Bull W145 vs Reviser Dragooon SA165 RDF
Death: 12 (all OS)
Dragooon: 3 (all KO)
Tie: 5 (4 stamina, 1 KO)
Dragooon win rate: 15%

(Aug. 07, 2013  1:23 AM)Switchblad3r Wrote: What bottom was on death bull? also isn't using an LL2 kind of a disadvantage? I guess it shows the ineffectiveness of dagooon though against these combos.

(Aug. 01, 2013  4:17 AM)Yuko Ray14 Wrote: Let me change my tone, I kinda posted that with an offensive tone, sorry. My reasoning to why this should not be added is because Phantom___ 90MF does everything this combo does but better, This has a tad more defense though, Phantom___90MF actually has a chance to KO Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD. And asI previously stated MF is tall for 230. These are only a few of my reasons, but as Kia Hiwatari said there is nothing ground breaking.

@*Ginga*and ShinobuXD, Kai is right though, he never stated anything about Gryph Gryph 85GF (which personally I love) so there is no need to say is was annoying, I havent even seen posts where he has said anything wrong.

(Aug. 27, 2013  9:22 PM)Ingulit Wrote:

We need lists!

So we've been talking for many pages about so many individual customs or topics, but we haven't had any drafting of lists take place! It can be helpful to get an idea of what everyone thinks the competitive list should look like, and to that end I have a proposal: to those of you who have the time to write a fairly detailed list, post your own current competitive list with explanations! We could then comment on/critique the lists that are posted, and hopefully gravitate toward a single list that most of us agree upon. Just remember to follow the rules of the thread--namely that you need to have evidence/support for anything you put in your list--and we can really get this ball rolling!

Here is an example of a list I proposed a long while back for style reference. This list is by no means up to date, this is just here if anyone needs one idea of how a list could be formatted. Your list doesn't have to be quite as detailed as this, but the more you can explain, the better!

Competitive List Draft (Click to View)

KEY Wrote:Black - These customs stay the same as the last list.
Red - These customs would be removed from the last list.
Green - These customs would be added from the last list.
Blue - These are my comments on this working list.

WORKING COMPETITIVE LIST Wrote:

ATTACK

Flash
Clear Wheels: Escolpio, Orion, Pisces, Beelzeb, Ionis

1. MF-H Flash ____ (CH120/S130/GB145/H145) (RF/R2F)
   
2. MF-H Flash ____ W145 MF

Explanations (Click to View)

1) Even in a world of Synchrom, Flash is still one of the great attack wheels in our metagame. The only changes I made were to add two clear wheels: Ionis, since its shape and weight distribution fit Flash well, and Beelzeb, which I am thoroughly convinced is the single best clear wheel for Flash available. All that said, now that Synchrom attackers have been discovered, Flash is standing on somewhat thinner ice, though I don't see it going down any time soon.

2) This Flash custom does have some of the best stamina of competitive right-spin attackers, and it's worth noting that Flash's stamina might be the main thing that keeps it on the competitive list.

VariAres

1. MF-H VariAres (CH120/R145) (RF/R2F/LRF)

Explanations (Click to View)

It's time to say goodbye to an old friend. This ol' guy barely held on to be on the last competitive list thanks to its dual-spin abilities, but in the aforementioned Synchrom meta it's just too light and too recoil-prone to be effective despite this single advantage. Thus, VariAres gets some much needed rest.

Wyvang

1. MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang (GB145/??145) (RF/R2F)
   
2. (MSF-H) Wyvang Dragooon SA165[Attack] R2F

Explanations (Click to View)

1: It's Wyvang Wyvang. Does it need more of an explanation, lol? It's got stadium-wall-shattering power (as I found out first hand), controllable recoil, and it works on just about any 145-height track (it needs more testing to find out which ones other than GB145). If you're a bey staring down this sucker, good luck staying in the stadium, haha! If you're an attack enthusiast, nabbing two Wyvangs or two Balros is an excellent idea.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MSF-H-Wyvang-Wyvang-145R2F-Collaboration-with-KainHighwind

2: I absolutely love this custom. It's unique, it's fun, and it works. It's one of the best left-spin attackers in the meta IMO, and thus I'd say it's competitive.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Wyvang-Dragooon-SA165-R2F

Balro

1. (MSF-H) Balro Balro CH120 R2F

Explanations (Click to View)

Balro and Wyvang are, by the tests that I've seen, the current kings of right-spin attack. Balro is especially notable in this custom in how well it does against E230, which as of right now is probably the best overall defense track. This custom is in need of some more testing by more users, but the numbers that are there are seriously impressive.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Balro-Balro-CH120R2F

Bahamdia

1. MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165 (RF/R2F)

Explanations (Click to View)

I'll take this opportunity to use awesome elementary-school language techniques: Bahamdia is to Wyvang/Balro as Blitz is to Flash. That is to say, this isn't in any way a BAD attacker, but Wyvang/Balro have more raw power. This has some niche advantages though (it's super heavy for whatever that is useful for, and it's got a very unique height for attackers), and it has rather competitive smash. Is that enough to justify a spot next to the two other resident right-spin Synchroms? Maybe, maybe not; that's what this thread is for! (Meow!, if you're reading this, I'd love to hear your opinion, haha!)

---

DEFENSE

NOTE: SP230 (Click to View)

I erred on the side of caution and did not include SP230 on this list because I kept getting conflicting results from different users (and my own testing) as to whether or not it's actually good for defense. I also had no clue what tips are good on SP230 (if any).

Duo
Clear Wheels: Aquario, Bull, Cancer/Gasher, Cygnus, Hades

1. MF-H Duo ____ BD145 (RB/RDF)
   
2. MF-H Duo ____ E230 (RB/RS/RSF/RDF)

Explanations (Click to View)

Yep, Duo is hanging onto the competitive list like a rusty fishhook. I can totally see justification in taking this down in the face of Synchroms, but its stamina is reallllly nice and its shape is still phenomenal. I'd say Duo deserves another go on the list.

Scythe
Clear Wheels: Kronos, Uranus, Pisces

1. MF-H Scythe ____ 85 RS

Explanations (Click to View)

I had to do it. This custom does well against a large portion of the attack meta (larger now thanks to Synchrom attackers) despite its ridiculously light weight. This is about as much of a defense custom as a defense custom can be: it has pitiful stamina, it is weak to left-spin, but it's hard as heck to KO with modern attackers. This is very much an anti-meta custom, and in my opinion it is a very competitive one.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Scythe-Uranus-85-RS-RB-Help-me-test-Updated-6-12-12

Right-Spin Synchrom
TOP Chrome Wheels: Reviser, Killerken
BOT Chrome Wheels: Reviser, Killerken

1. MSF-H [BOT] [TOP] BD145 (CS/RB/RDF/RS)
   
2. MSF-H [BOT] [TOP] E230 (CS/RB/RS/RSF/RDF)

Explanations (Click to View)

The first thing I need to mention is that this format is just something I thought of off the top of my head, and if anyone can recommend something better please post it!

Now onto the content. This list is actually not that different from the previous one, except where the old one only contained Reviser, this one has room for any chrome wheel that's good in a defense Synchrom. While I did not have a left-spin counterpart, I named this section "Right-Spin Synchrom" to make the list more accepting of Dragooon-based defense types if some are notable (but missing).

Some chrome wheels I considered but require discussion: Genbull, Gargole, Dragooon (on bottom), Saramanda, Wyvang

---

STAMINA

Phantom

1. Clear Wheels: Cancer/Gasher, Cygnus, Hades
   
2. Phantom ____ W145 (EWD/WD)
   
3. Phantom ____ TH170 (D/SD/TB)
   
4. Phantom ____ (LW160/160) PD
   
5. Phantom ____ SR200 TB
   
6. Phantom ____ 230 (D/SD)

Duo

1. Clear Wheels: Aquario, Cancer/Gasher, Cygnus
   
2. Duo ____ W145 (EWD/WD)
   
3. Duo ____ TH170 (D/SD/TB)
   
4. Duo ____ (LW160/160) PD
   
5. Duo ____ SR200 TB
   
6. Duo ____ 230 (D/SD)

Explanations (Click to View)

Duo and Phantom are both still dominant Stamina forces in the meta and likely will be for a long time to come. The only changes I made were to add two track/tip customs:

(LW160/160) PD:
This is based on my own testing and it works ridiculously well for me. However, there have been few other users who have backed up my results, so this might not be able to go on the list until that happens.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Duo-Cygnus-160PD

TH170 TB:
SR200 TB:
KainHighwind first clued me into these setups, and I absolutely love both of them. TB is a strangely awesome stamina part on the right tracks, and it's definitely a competitive tip in my opinion. SR200 is also probably good with other standard tips, but TB is the main notable one.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Genbull-Genbull-SR200TB-CS

Genbull

1. Genbull Genbull SR200 (TB/CS)
   
2. Genbull Genbull TH170 TB

Explanations (Click to View)

We finally have a competitive Synchrom stamina type!!

1. This was the original custom, and both TB and CS work well. CS is particularly noteworthy since it gives the custom a moderate level of defense as well.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Genbull-Genbull-SR200TB-CS

2. This is just a variant that utilizes TH170, though now that I think about it, this might have only been tested informally... It's my current favorite stamina custom by a mile, but I don't remember if the results got posted or not. I'll try and find them, but until then, take this with a grain of salt.

Dragooon

1. MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165 (EWD/RDF)

Explanations (Click to View)

This custom is still kicking around as one of the dominant spin-stealers, but recently theblackdragon showed that RDF is a very competitive option as well. Originally I was going to put the RDF variant in Balance since its primary purpose is to add defense, but I figured it would be fine here.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Reviser-Dragooon-SA165RDF-normal-mode

Meteo L-Drago

1. (MF/-H) Meteo L-Drago CH120 EWD
   
2. MF-H Meteo L-Drago TR145 EWD

Explanations (Click to View)

Yet again, we have to say goodbye to an old friend. Now that Dragooon is very much a thing, we can't really say a sub-40g wheel is supposed to be as good as its Zero-G older brother anymore.

---

BALANCE

1. MF-H L-Drago Destroy/Guardian BD145RDF
   -=-
   
2. (MF-H/MF-M) Duo (Cygnus/Cancer/Gasher) 230 MB
   -=-
   
3. MF-H Diablo (Kerbecs/Unicorno II) BD145 (RF/R2F)
   -=-
   
4. MF-H Basalt Horogium (R145/TR145) (RF/R2F)
   -=-
   
5. MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85MF
   -=-
   
6. MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF
   -=-
   
7. MSF(-H) Gryph Gryph E230BSF
   -=-
   
8. MSF-H Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF

Explanations (Click to View)

1) This custom needs to be taken off simply because it has been heavily outclassed by much heavier (and more effective) Dragooon variants.

2) This is still a phenomenal custom, but its weakness to left-spin is really starting to hurt in this meta. That said, this custom will likely stay competitive for a long while.

3) Diablo continues to be one of the best Anti-Attack wheels out there, and this certainly remains a fearsome custom. Like Duo 230MB, this baby will be on this list for a good time yet.

4) This custom is on very, VERY shaky ground. While it continues to put up decent numbers, it can't be denied that it's one of the lighter customs on this list (which sounds so weird lol). I haven't yet seen anything that is so strictly better than it yet to take it off the list, but it could easily jump off at the drop of a hat.

5) For a long time I've been one of the few advocating this custom, and slowly but surely it has been cropping up in the Winning Customs thread in some notable tournaments. I've always thought this was competitive, and now I feel there is enough real weight to that claim to warrent a spot on this list.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-L-Phantom-Attack-Cygnus-85MF-A-Combo-Revisted

6) This is a staple custom. I don't know much more to say about this other than this is a custom you could solo a tournament with. It's good.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MSF-H-Wyvang-Dragooon-BD145RDF

7) This is such a cool combo, and it's showing up in Winning Customs more and more nowadays; enough, IMO, to be on the list, though it's so non-standard that it'd be on shaky-ish ground.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MSF-Gryph-Gryph-E230BSF

8) This custom is so weird, haha; it's hard as heck to master, but those who have all say this is ridiculously good. I'm terrible with it myself, but it has some awesome numbers backing it up, enough that I think it might deserve a go on the list.
Thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MSF-H-Dragooon%C2%B2-Bahamdia-Dragooon-SP230GF