So, the culture here requires members to read the rules and pay attention to the OP. Some new members familiar with other cultures may not even read the welcome post because they can't conceive of warning for a whole class of things that they have previously not even paid attention to. Those new members invariably get warned, and I agree it can be startling.
At this point though the stories diverge into 2 general categories.
Category 1 - continues to not pay attention and gets more warnings or even banned temporarily. They either shape up or ship out.
Category 2 - quickly realizes what is up and never gets warned again.
No one here but you and the moderators can see your warning level. I may be at 90% for all anyone knows! (I'm not, but you get my drift)
The culture here is different. We do have lots of younger members who need a strong boundary condition to keep the site operating smoothly. There are no age limits in the WBO, but there are no separate rules for different ages either. A month from now, my hope is that we barely even remember this conversation, because for the parties at issue it will have become a nonissue.
The hard thing that I came a cross was that this community is so big that it's hard to read 1,000 post to see if anyone has already said what you said. The new people are not that patient to read through or decide if their post is necessary and some are just trying to get a high post count. I will be honest, I did most of this stuff.
(Oct. 14, 2011 11:29 PM)Arupaeo Wrote: [ -> ]So, the culture here requires members to read the rules and pay attention to the OP. Some new members familiar with other cultures may not even read the welcome post because they can't conceive of warning for a whole class of things that they have previously not even paid attention to. Those new members invariably get warned, and I agree it can be startling.
At this point though the stories diverge into 2 general categories.
Category 1 - continues to not pay attention and gets more warnings or even banned temporarily. They either shape up or ship out.
Category 2 - quickly realizes what is up and never gets warned again.
No one here but you and the moderators can see your warning level. I may be at 90% for all anyone knows! (I'm not, but you get my drift)
The culture here is different. We do have lots of younger members who need a strong boundary condition to keep the site operating smoothly. There are no age limits in the WBO, but there are no separate rules for different ages either. A month from now, my hope is that we barely even remember this conversation, because for the parties at issue it will have become a nonissue.
Word dude... I totally agree.
... its an opionion, there is no right or wrong, If a 14 year old needs strong boundaries to be a 'good' interweb, fine, no big deal, thats the way the site operates.
I however am well into my adult years, and on the other online communities I belong to, its mostly people my age, and we are all pretty laid back about most things, thats the way those other sites operate.
Like I said I'm not complaining, I'm just responding to the question, with my OPINION, which is yeah they could chill a bit, but whatever, I don't really care either way, I'm still a member here regardless, and if you have to pay attention to every line written in a thread, well thats just the way its gonna have to be.
And reading a 40 page thread, can take hours, so ??? what do you do.
(Oct. 14, 2011 10:53 PM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 14, 2011 10:15 PM)Hazel Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 14, 2011 9:40 PM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]People get banned for things on those forums, but for big things, there is no strikes system to keep track of very minor things that an accumulation of which leads to a ban, that is in place to my knowledge.
What other forums do is entirely irrelevant here. They are not us, we are not them, and trying to change ourselves to be more like a less-disciplined forum just seems like a large step backwards.
Any user that simply stops posting or leaves because of a warning for an improper action is not a user that was going to be very contributory or beneficial for the forum environment in the first place, typically.
A repeat-offender of any kind should be punished. If they continue to ignore the large gratuity of warning shots, temp bans, etc. then the hammer comes down on them. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly find fault with it, to be honest.
I'm not complaining, or trying to change ANYTHING!!!! I'm just saying new members should be given a little pre-warning, than being instantly reprimanded for a silly oversight... that is all, I mentioned the other forums because I have been a contributing member to many others for several years, and until this forum, I as a new member, was not familiar with a 'warning system' as all of the other forums I'm on don't 'warn' they ban for serious things, such continual rudeness/obligatory comments repeatedly, scams etc... I've never been 'warned' for "not elaborating"
Like I said, I'm NOT complaining, I'm not saying "oh its not fair take it back", its done, whatever... I am saying however, that in situations like that maybe ones length as a member should be taken into account... For Instance, Someone who joins and in the first week they get a warning for 'not elaborating' or whatever, they might then be 'turned-off' to the site from then on...
But some people are black and white I guess, others allow for some gray... it takes all kinds you know.
You do get a pre-warning: That PM you get when you join. Plus, when the title says "Elaborate", then elaborate. It's not that hard. I have a 60% warning level, and 40% is for not elaborating. I elaborate now. It's that simple. It's a warning, and should be taken as such.
(Oct. 15, 2011 1:01 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]You do get a pre-warning: That PM you get when you join. Plus, when the title says "Elaborate", then elaborate. It's not that hard. I have a 60% warning level, and 40% is for not elaborating. I elaborate now. It's that simple. It's a warning, and should be taken as such.
Cool man, I get it, its the way the site operates... in answering the OP I say they could relax a bit, thats it, regardless of my situation, which was only used as an example, I'm not complaining that I got a warning, it doesn't really bug me, It was just unexpected is what I'm saying...
You people need to look at the whole context and breadth of what is said, not focus on a single sentence and then take it out of context. I don't know why you are all arguing so much... maybe its an age thing... It took me awhile, but I know now that just because someone has a different point of view than you, doesn't make them wrong, and trying to convince them of that is entirely pointless, dually when it is entirely subjective.
I think sometimes things on the wbo can get a little strict. but overall i think the mods and stuff are just keeping this place in order.
(Oct. 14, 2011 11:29 PM)Arupaeo Wrote: [ -> ]At this point though the stories diverge into 2 general categories.
Category 1 - continues to not pay attention and gets more warnings or even banned temporarily. They either shape up or ship out.
Category 2 - quickly realizes what is up and never gets warned again.
No one here but you and the moderators can see your warning level. I may be at 90% for all anyone knows! (I'm not, but you get my drift)
Just what I said!
If you are warned, you must know how to deal with those warnings. I was warned once for posting my Favourite songs in a thread, but I didn't mention the reasons even after the OP was changed. I've improved quite a lot from that time(IMO)...
Nowadays, I hardly see WBO being strict. They have warned people only when required, and thankfully there've been no Spam bots recently.
(Oct. 15, 2011 1:10 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 15, 2011 1:01 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]You do get a pre-warning: That PM you get when you join. Plus, when the title says "Elaborate", then elaborate. It's not that hard. I have a 60% warning level, and 40% is for not elaborating. I elaborate now. It's that simple. It's a warning, and should be taken as such.
Cool man, I get it, its the way the site operates... in answering the OP I say they could relax a bit, thats it, regardless of my situation, which was only used as an example, I'm not complaining that I got a warning, it doesn't really bug me, It was just unexpected is what I'm saying...
You people need to look at the whole context and breadth of what is said, not focus on a single sentence and then take it out of context. I don't know why you are all arguing so much... maybe its an age thing... It took me awhile, but I know now that just because someone has a different point of view than you, doesn't make them wrong, and trying to convince them of that is entirely pointless, dually when it is entirely subjective.
Two things.
One: I was also using the elaboration as an example. People get warned for not reading. It's that simple. Just another example.
Two: I'm not arguing at all. Trust me, if I was, you'd know.
(Oct. 15, 2011 7:11 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not arguing at all. Trust me, if I was, you'd know.
LOL! Fair enough
I have a 10%, and it was because I made a one word post "OK...................................."
However, I've seen other one worded posts that go disregarded. This is because they are answering something that doesn't need elaboration. "No." would be one of these.
Agreed, but should we elaborate if someone asks if Benkei is real, or is s simple 'no' enough? I don't mind, so long as there is not an obvious bias, like a mod going "lol" and not getting warned. But I don't think that'll ever happen.
I know the Wbo membrs might seem strict. Like my first week. But they are only doing their jobs.
Who cares if they're strict? If you don't do anything stupid, will it be an issue? Nope. Just don't toe the line with your face, that's all.
(Oct. 14, 2011 9:22 PM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ] (Oct. 14, 2011 9:07 PM)gibsonmac Wrote: [ -> ]Fixed, also I didn't read every post before posting, there are 11 pages there.
anyway, I do think warnings are handed out hastily sometimes... if I were a veteran, then yeah I should know better I suppose, because I would have been around long enough to know the way things are around here. BUT I'm a NEW member, and new members wouldn't know things like that... I'm a contributing member of 5+ other forums and non of them have a warning system, I didn't know it was possible.
You were only required to read the title and the first post, not eleven pages obviously.
You might be a new member, but like everyone else, you received a private message introducing you to the board and tellin you to read the rules.
Any message board without a warning system is completely amateur. Even the worst forum software has such a system, and it would have to be extremely small and unpopular for there to be no warning system because you need to only have trustable friends on that board ...
this is a perfect example of a condescending tone. calling other boards amateur is really arrogant. this post was unnecessary.
(Oct. 16, 2011 4:37 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares if they're strict? If you don't do anything stupid, will it be an issue? Nope. Just don't toe the line with your face, that's all.
These are the mannerisms i find disgusting and absolutely out of line. you cannot rationalize the committee's choices on stupid and smart. there is no such thing as saying something stupid and saying it smart. A majority of you have this idea that when people are born, they know everything and if they don't they are as important and irrelevant as a wall is. Most of you are cynical, condescending and tactless when it comes to helping out newer members, and it isn't just the committee acting in such a way. You cannot have this mindset, especially when it comes to a forum where children and their parents log in.
I don't care about b& hammers or whatever. I care about the attitude and how most of you represent WBO to newer possible long lasting members, and quite frankly most of you need to shape up.
A board without any warning level is almost unheard of. Plus, the "condescending tone" was not even towards a user.
A board without a warning system would mean either one admin reads every single posts, memorizes every member and their every post and from there memorizes every verbal warning. If they don't do that, then it's obviously an instant ban for every offense ever made or they ban as they want to. That seems amateurish to me.
I personally believe that this warning system is good, yet, as many others have said,
it is a bit harsh to newer members and even to some of our good-natured contributors.
This warning system needs to be taken down a notch to make the WBO experience a lot better.
A simple way to do this is to set a time limit on warnings. If something is serious, it can then last forever, or for a long period of time. Small mistakes, as posting in wrong forums or making unnecessary threads should be given a short time limit. This way, newer members can have time to settle, learn from mistakes without worrying that every petty mistake may bring them closer to being banned from one of the best forums out there. As for those who make many repeated mistakes, due to the time limit, will get banned quickly, as they deserve.
I hope this gets implemented, as I have seen this take a few good bladers from this site, and maybe even the most respected. Everyone here deserves a chance to stay on without fear of getting banned.
i totaly agree with ben he does have a point and also the fact that at times when you get warnings they dont even go they stay there forever for example iv had a warning since 2009 for crying out load and i have learned my lesson im just saying they should make it a tiny bit less harsh
(Oct. 17, 2011 8:57 PM)brazman Wrote: [ -> ]i totaly agree with ben he does have a point and also the fact that at times when you get warnings they dont even go they stay there forever for example iv had a warning since 2009 for crying out load and i have learned my lesson im just saying they should make it a tiny bit less harsh
As I always tell everyone, unless you plan on breaking the rules again, why do you care ? If it is below fifty percent you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Also understand that I see a lot more priority in reconsidering someone's warnings if they are close to one hundred. If they are good members, then it is a lot more worth it to salvage them and revoke some of their warnings.
Finally, understand that we really do not have the time to look through everyone's warning level to see if some are from 2009, unless they indeed do something to get a more recent warning, in which case we usually look at their history.
I like the idea of expiration dates. Not every warning should have them, but maybe there should be a condition for some of them you can do to redeem yourself? I would like that 50% warning for that failed tournament to go away. I think for all the tournaments I did host and help is enough to prove I don't need that warning there anymore.
^ Agreed.
Expiration date, now that was the word I was looking for!
Some warnings, like threats or something could last forever or result in a permanent ban, but obviously some of us have warnings from a long time ago, and we already learnt from those.
However, that could result in us getting banned if we get some kind of massive warning like the 50% warning...
So I think expiration dates is a MUST!
(Oct. 17, 2011 8:04 PM)djspida5 Wrote: [ -> ]there is no such thing as saying something stupid and saying it smart. A majority of you have this idea that when people are born, they know everything and if they don't they are as important and irrelevant as a wall is. Most of you are cynical, condescending and tactless when it comes to helping out newer members, and it isn't just the committee acting in such a way. You cannot have this mindset, especially when it comes to a forum where children and their parents log in.
I don't care about b& hammers or whatever. I care about the attitude and how most of you represent WBO to newer possible long lasting members, and quite frankly most of you need to shape up.
This line right here represents a good example contradictory to its own message, actually - there
is a right way and a wrong way to convey a thought, and how you convey your thoughts is absolutely the most important part of posting on a forum, speaking in public, or just being a human being in general. If people being punished(not very severely, I might add - it has been mentioned numerous times that it takes SEVERAL small screwups, and even 2-4 large ones, to hit 100%) for improper behavior bothers you, please take some time to re-evaluate your priorities, as I believe they may not fall in line with the fundamental rules of common sense.
If a member is not going to post in a cohesive, contributory, or at least non-detrimental manner, there's really no reason to encourage them to continue posting. It's better that posters be reminded that there are guidelines in place, and a certain standard to be met, in order to help them improve - both as posters, and maturing individuals.
I also support the idea of expiration dates on certain kinds of warnings, but I am not sure of the validity of the idea on a forum software basis - whether or not there would be a pheasible way to automate the process, for example. If the process cannot be automated, then it becomes a task of every Admin/Moderator keeping a list of everyone's warnings, the type of warning(expiring or non-expiring), etc, which is just unreasonable. If it can be automated, though, I think it's a wonderful idea that would, overall, be better for the health of the board.
yes, I like the idea too. I too, would like some of mine to go away like, maybe the first two and the fourth? But then again, it all depends on the commitee. I support this idea.
(Oct. 17, 2011 9:33 PM)Manicben Wrote: [ -> ]^ Agreed.
Expiration date, now that was the word I was looking for!
Some warnings, like threats or something could last forever or result in a permanent ban, but obviously some of us have warnings from a long time ago, and we already learnt from those.
However, that could result in us getting banned if we get some kind of massive warning like the 50% warning...
So I think expiration dates is a MUST!
And they don't have to expire anytime soon, either. They could be a year or two at most.
Quote: (Oct. 16, 2011 4:37 AM)Temporal Wrote: [ -> ]Who cares if they're strict? If you don't do anything stupid, will it be an issue? Nope. Just don't toe the line with your face, that's all.
These are the mannerisms i find disgusting and absolutely out of line. you cannot rationalize the committee's choices on stupid and smart. there is no such thing as saying something stupid and saying it smart. A majority of you have this idea that when people are born, they know everything and if they don't they are as important and irrelevant as a wall is. Most of you are cynical, condescending and tactless when it comes to helping out newer members, and it isn't just the committee acting in such a way. You cannot have this mindset, especially when it comes to a forum where children and their parents log in.
I don't care about b& hammers or whatever. I care about the attitude and how most of you represent WBO to newer possible long lasting members, and quite frankly most of you need to shape up.
Something tells me you're mad. My idea was that if you don't do anything to GET a warning, does how fast someone who does get a warning matter? Read the rules, that's all people need to do. (Dude, I have a 60%. I know I'm not perfect, but I don't excuse my warnings by saying "I'm a noob!", now do I? That's my issue. People covering for others with that tired old "They're young" thing. Had I read the rules at the beginning of my registration to the WBO, I would have 0%. It's that simple. I'm sure everyone here knows how to read.