World Beyblade Organization Beyblade Discussion Bey Marketplace

eBay Topic

May. 15, 2013  10:43 PM
 
Still doesn't justify stuff like this, or the posts garnered in response:
(May. 12, 2013  3:33 AM)sporkseller Wrote: My only regret is leaving the market in the hands of sellers who care nothing for advancement of the hobby nor the great people who are passionate about it. I would highly recommend to this community and anyone who collects Beyblades to demand more from sellers/suppliers than what these others deliver.
Blatant marketing-degree level spiel, nothing more, nothing less. Especially as he made perfectly clear that he will be continuing to sell things, just not anything new - yet people, including yourself, still acted like their livers were being removed.


(May. 15, 2013  10:39 PM)Ultra Wrote: Yeah I don't know any sellers of recent times who have owned 2 galeon 2's, 2 Othrous' and 1 Appollon and then sold them all. All prize colours btw.

He sold rare beys for profit thanks to a good, cheap supplier. That's uh... real great? (Click to View)

Still, this is all sidetracking us from the issue that actually matters here - fact is, whatever he did is irrelevant given the fact he's very obviously involved in shady business practices, so I think we should just leave it be now.
May. 15, 2013  10:45 PM
 
(May. 15, 2013  10:21 PM)Ultra Wrote: One thing I will say is that while you could say his prices are no better than someone who cares about low prices such as 3-Dog he does manage to find quite rare stuff. You can moan at me for defending him all you want but that's part of the reason for his success and just because I state the truth doesn't mean I support shady practices of anyone.

This was your first response to the fraudulent activities on that Black Dragoon GT set being exposed:

Ultra Wrote:Not sure sure how we got to the point where spinning tops are a big enough deal for what you just said lol.

You are delusional if you don't think that is tacit approval of illegitimate business activities. You did not defend sporkseller from the charge, you pretty much said 'ah who cares they're just bleyblades so what if someone gets scammed out of $500'

Now you're saying 'hey i don't support shady practices of anyone but... u no... he does get... rare stuff...'

What you fail to understand is that having the ability to find rare stuff does not make someone impervious to suspicion, especially when there is almost insurmountable evidence against them. I have asked sporkseller to reply in this thread and make things clear because this entire fiasco involves at least one guilty party. Perhaps you should just stop posting until sporkseller replies, because you're clearly not helping his case when you advocate his legitimacy by saying he 'finds rare stuff'. You might as well justify someone committing embezzlement because they wore a nice suit whilst doing it. It has no relevance to anything.
May. 15, 2013  11:13 PM
 
We discussed that comment that already but lets go for some more. That was what I was thinking at the time. I didn't analyse it before I posted it. Maybe it wasn't a smart thing to say. The context of it was that I was wondering why spinning tops manage to attract people with loose morals. Clearly far from what you think I meant or said. I mean what I say and I say I mean. I wasn't trying to defend him.

Again you're twisting my words. The reason I said that was so that th!nk or anyone else looking in would have some understanding of why he people seem to love him so much (a lot more than you or me).

What makes you think that? I never said that a person's ability to find rare stuff makes them impervious to suspicion at all. Again you're trying to put words in my mouth. A lot of the time when people show their true colours it's too late. JR Tiger is a good example. He showed no bad signs for a long time. To my knowledge in all the time he was here he did nothing that would have given anyone a reason to treat him with suspicion. Then out of the blue he left with people's money. I never advocated Sporksellers' legitimacy at all. Anyone with good sources can find nice stuff. The two are completed unrelated.

You seem to be trying very hard to make me seem like a bad person or someone that doesn't care. The reality is far from it. If I didn't care I wouldn't be here.
May. 15, 2013  11:22 PM
 
Your entire post is invalid because you are purposely derailing the thread by switching the topic of conversation. You should probably work on thinking before you post. Whilst the topic was about FRAUDULENT PRICE-FIXING ON THE BLACK DRAGOON GT SET, you responded with this:

Ultra Wrote:One thing I will say is that while you could say his prices are no better than someone who cares about low prices such as 3-Dog he does manage to find quite rare stuff. You can moan at me for [b]defending him[b] all you want but that's part of the reason for his success and just because I state the truth doesn't mean I support shady practices of anyone.

You are defending him on a completely unrelated point. The discussion is price-fixing and you are talking about his ability to find rare beyblades. There is no relevance to your post and it does not further the discussion in any way. You are effectively defending him from allegations of scamming a hapless bidder by switching the subject.

I can't even comprehend why you would talk about his ability to find rare beyblades when the topic at hand is about price-fixing. You might as well go to a Batman convention dressed as a pony. Both scenarios have equal relevance in the grand scheme of things.
May. 15, 2013  11:23 PM
 
I received a PM from 3-Dog yesterday morning that I didn't actually read until bedtime last night, where he suggested I make another comment here. I've had a crazy day (past two actually) and just getting around to it.


I have no control over how (method - automated max versus manual incremental) people bid, nor do I really concern myself with why. My main concern (singular) is this: will they screw me at the end of the sale?

wbotime has been a loyal customer, but is just one of many I have.

Has he pushed prices up on the auction style listings I've posted? Given the information posted here it's impossible to claim otherwise.

Did he always actually want the item(s) in the listing? I believe he already confirmed that he did. It's an individual choice whether each of you believes him or not.

Am I colluding with wbotime? No, absolutely not. As someone with plans on making a successful go on eBay, I'd have been a fool to risk the reputation I've spent so much time and effort building. Likewise, would I have sacrificed a $500+ sale to maintain a pretense of concern? No - my concern was genuine and when I have a chance I'll address it with wbotime directly via PM. I've already spoken to the other buyer and offered a sincere apology and explanation why I ended the auction.

What wbotime does, he does for his own reasons. I helped him get his Paypal account functional...months ago...believing that he could be a good, regular customer. It's something I would have done for ANY of you had you asked me. I'm a grown man, gainfully employed, selling a toy-line I have an inexplicable affinity for...to people usually much younger than myself. You go into that situation knowing there could be some hand holding, mistaken bids, unreasonable demands, and so on.

If creating a custom listing somehow 'proves' anything to anyone here, then I'd be wasting my breath...er...keystrokes trying to convince them otherwise. Perhaps I should have told him to piss off all those months ago, then he'd have come in here and told you all what a jerk I am.

Finally, as it pertains to the Apollon listing, games WERE being played but they were being played by the other bidder. Many of you who buy or sell on eBay will recognize the user ID: sandeeandbill

Sandeeandbill bid Apollon up to $150, asked me to block the other bidder (wbotime; i didn't comply), then retracted his own bid of $150 (dropping it back to $50). Immediately after it dropped to $50, he messaged me this: "I pulled my bid and it's at $50 again. I'll pay you $100 if you end it right now" I told him "no, and I'm reporting your activity here to eBay. you're shilling to try and drive away competition - the very definition of illegal bidding" He responded: "don't report me - I'll push the price back up to $150 so at least you can get money for it from the other guy". then he did, making a SECOND bid at $150 (he already knew wbotime's max bid from moments before). At that point, I threatened again to report him, he buckled, and I sold it to him for the $150 he TWICE had put as a max bid. wbotime had nothing to do with that situation other than he was willing to pay $150 for Apollon. And when I shipped it to sandeeandbill (the ebay address uses his mom's name) I made sure to put the type of packing slip that shows the actual purchase price so she'd have a chance to see what her son was doing with her eBay and paypal accounts. A week earlier, he tried to shill the Black & White Collection, message me saying "i pushed the other guy to $50" I responded immediately telling him to never do that again, and because of his violation I had to pull the auction.

Bottom line - I don't accept illegal bidding from anyone. sandeeandbill is blocked from bidding now and he can choke on Apollon for all I care. If after speaking with wbotime I believe he's putting my eBay seller account at risk then he'll be subject to the same thing. Believe me or not, I've presented my perspective and as usual have engaged this community openly.

Th!nk - you came into this discussion upset about the reaction to my 'stop selling' announcement, and you've really let that sentiment grow into a concerning level of preoccupation with the issue. Do you realize how unfriendly you make this forum seem to any reasonable person considering an account? What are you here for I wonder? To judge? Criticize? Bully people out of membership? Scare people away from posting? Compare your knowledge to make CHILDREN feel stupid and worthless? Your mind is made up - fine. I'd just recommend pulling back on the reins a bit. Be a grown up and forget the anonymity of message boards to realize that your comments/accusations/agression are no better than a common street bully picking on smaller children.
May. 15, 2013  11:24 PM
 
(May. 15, 2013  11:13 PM)Ultra Wrote: We discussed that comment that already but lets go for some more.
Can we not, please?

Quote:Again you're twisting my words. The reason I said that was so that th!nk or anyone else looking in would have some understanding of why he people seem to love him so much (a lot more than you or me).
Please stop making out that I don't understand the situation here. I'm very much aware - likely moreso than you - of the actual reasons he has such a large fanbase - particularly because, unlike you, I've not been gullible enough to fall for his rhetoric. Trust me, I've seen his auctions - heck even 3-dog mentioned a few to me that were particularly good before all this surfaced. It's just plenty of other sellers also have good stuff from time to time, and he's nowhere near exceptional enough to warrant the grovelling you and others show publicly - and from where I stand, I can analyse why so many people fawn over him. But, either way, that's not something I care about that much - as much as it makes me feel a little queasy, this discussion has nothing to do with that. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it at all but I felt it necessary to fully cover the topic (and declare any stake/interests I might have had in calling his shady practices out).

Either way, this line of discussion needs to be dropped. The only people who should really continue it are sporkseller himself (and despite being online during all of this, he hasn't), and those with legitimate questions about the evidence that has been posted. Seeing as it's been a couple of pages, I'll link back to my post on the topic, 3-dog's post just above it is also worth reading. Can we leave it now, please?
Oh right you did reply.
(May. 15, 2013  11:23 PM)sporkseller Wrote: [irrelevant stuff that doesn't actually address any of the evidence removed]
Th!nk - you came into this discussion upset about the reaction to my 'stop selling' announcement, and you've really let that sentiment grow into a concerning level of preoccupation with the issue. Do you realize how unfriendly you make this forum seem to any reasonable person considering an account? What are you here for I wonder? To judge? Criticize? Bully people out of membership? Scare people away from posting? Compare your knowledge to make CHILDREN feel stupid and worthless? Your mind is made up - fine. I'd just recommend pulling back on the reins a bit. Be a grown up and forget the anonymity of message boards to realize that your comments/accusations/agression are no better than a common street bully picking on smaller children.

After I made that post, a member who wishes to remain anonymous came to me with a tonne of evidence to point out that my suspicions were actually, more than likely, correct. Out of interest for the community, I investigated more thoroughly, and that is why things suddenly got a whole lot more aggressive.

If you would like to address my argument rather than attacking me as a person and a user of this board, I'm open to hearing it, but so far you haven't actually provided any evidence to disprove your complicity in Time's very obvious bumping of your auctions - I've already shown that were he interested in those auctions, he wouldn't have stopped bidding just as he reached the opposing bidder's maximum, instead of stopping bidding just there, maximising your profits. Instead you've just said "no I didn't and also you're a bad person th!nk".

As for my anonymity, a lot of users already know my identity IRL, unlike you. I'm ginger, 21 years old, and I don't have much of a life - I suffer from depression and amongst other things that resulted in me dropping out of university, something I've mentioned multiple times on these forums, I'm very open about all of these things, and that I am, for all wants and purposes, a pretty pathetic human being , and yes, I am aware I am too grouchy - it's part of why I'm a lot less active nowadays (but at the same time, a few really excellent members have resulted from me yelling my throat raw at them to make them realise they need to shape up and then helping them a little to do so, which is kinda neat!). For anonymity, I am just as abrasive as I am on facebook as I am here, if not moreso, despite having a fair bit of public information visible - yeah, I'm a terrible person with a really dry/condescending sense of humor, whatever. See, NONE of this is relevant to the fact you're scamming our users while claiming to be the messiah of low price spinning tops, and I don't like that. It's just more of that shallow rhetoric, appealing to people's emotions rather than their intelligence, and I hope no one is dumb enough to fall for it in a situation where it is so clearly inappropriate.

Stop trying to make me look bad, start actually trying to claw your way out of the hole full of damning evidence I've posted.
May. 16, 2013  12:42 AM
 
All you've listed is what someone else did. You accused me at first, now it has been proven that it wasn't me, and you've changed to blaming me for that individual's behavior. How can I prove I didn't know what someone was doing on my auctions? Trust me when I say you know FAR more about my auctions than I ever did or will. Blame me if you want for not lurking my auctions, but that is a far cry from being complicit in the behavior your accusing me/him/both of us of. It would be like me asking you to prove you didn't know what he was doing and blaming you for not warning the community sooner. Ridiculous perhaps, but conceptually the same.

WHAT he did is there (I guess, I'm not going to look at all that information just taking your word on the contents) right? I've asked him to stop and invited a reply. Not sure if I'll get one or not. I'll take appropriate action and hopefully get the truth. Other than that, there's little I can do.

That said, I'd be curious to compare oki's prices now to what they were before I showed up. Honestly you're the first person I know with anything good to say about his prices. Don't worry - soon he'll be all that's left more or less for wider selection beyblade sellers.

You should buy me out so I'll go away even quicker! Whaddya say!?
May. 16, 2013  12:48 AM
 
Think brought up who he is as a person in real life and I think it is only fair that I do the same, I have been a member on this website for almost a year now and have met a ton of really great people at tournaments who would be willing to vouch for me that I am a reasonably decent person as well and not some profit-hungry weasel as you have attempted to portray me as. Heck, I gave away a ton of stuff at the last tournament I attended and sold at, admittedly its not stuff I was losing a lot of money on, but it was a gesture of kindness towards kids who do not have the income to buy beys with the readiness that I do. Honestly, think what you are missing is a why, why in the world would I agree to do such an outrageous thing as increase the profits of a person whom I have never met?
May. 16, 2013  12:51 AM
 
guys, I think this is getting out of control, you should talk about it via pm because is important but this topic, from what I known, was made to post articles from ebay, when you end up the discussion you can post it wherever it's need to with the resolution, if necessary
May. 16, 2013  12:53 AM
 
Izkhoort, 3-dog and I BOTH asked staff members what to do with what we found, and they said to post here. It is in the interest of people who may buy from sporkseller to know this information, and this is a place where they will most likely see it. Furthermore, it is relevant to beyblades on ebay. Please leave moderation to moderators.

(May. 16, 2013  12:42 AM)sporkseller Wrote: All you've listed is what someone else did. You accused me at first, now it has been proven that it wasn't me, and you've changed to blaming me for that individual's behavior. How can I prove I didn't know what someone was doing on my auctions? Trust me when I say you know FAR more about my auctions than I ever did or will. Blame me if you want for not lurking my auctions, but that is a far cry from being complicit in the behavior your accusing me/him/both of us of. It would be like me asking you to prove you didn't know what he was doing and blaming you for not warning the community sooner. Ridiculous perhaps, but conceptually the same.

WHAT he did is there (I guess, I'm not going to look at all that information just taking your word on the contents) right? I've asked him to stop and invited a reply. Not sure if I'll get one or not. I'll take appropriate action and hopefully get the truth. Other than that, there's little I can do.

That said, I'd be curious to compare oki's prices now to what they were before I showed up. Honestly you're the first person I know with anything good to say about his prices. Don't worry - soon he'll be all that's left more or less for wider selection beyblade sellers.

You should buy me out so I'll go away even quicker! Whaddya say!?

Yes, I changed what I said because I found strong evidence of collusion. It's not exactly as shady as deleting the leading bids of someone who has clearly been inflating the prices of your auctions now, is it? I have nothing to gain from calling you out on this, I've already made that clear, and I think anyone with a little common sense can check that out for themselves (and those privy to me and 3-dog's discussions can see I was pretty ambivalent about the whole thing until I was PM'd and investigated a mountain of evidence, a long time after I first heard about it (I just assumed 3-dog was being paranoid over coincidences).)

I don't care how much good you did, frankly, all I care about is that you're profiting much more than you should because of Time's behaviour. I mean, there's the obvious fact, and I think most of the admins will agree with me on this, that Time probably wouldn't be able to figure out half of what was needed to do this by himself.

Of course, I can prove I didn't know what he was doing earlier - one of the site admins can actually attest to that as I posted most of my observations as I made them in a chat he is able to see. But I guess I'm getting away from the main point.

The most obvious evidence of your involvement is the fact that you cancelled his bids when he was leading after pushing up prices, and I've already discounted the "hacked" excuse he posted - but, despite all of the times you've cancelled his bids, you said in this very topic that you were in close communication with him on that $500 black gt auction - and I know a lot of ebay sellers, and none of them would not notice that they'd cancelled this guys bids multiple times.

And as for the market being doomed so soon, no, you made quite clear in your "i'm done" post earlier that you have more coming (and apparently you said even more to that effect in a PM to 3-dog) - it was more meaningless marketing spiel. And, as I've said, plenty of other sellers sell for the minimum they can to make a small profit. But that's beside the point - this has nothing to do with how good a seller you are, and this really isn't a time when you should be trying to market yourself as god's gift to the beyblade market. My comments about oki? First off, specific AND past tense (for good reason), second, irrelevant to this discussion, third, I have a really solid rebuff for that but I really want you to stop with the distractions, okay?

I am going to suggest you DO read the entirety of my post, yes, it's long, but you should probably be taking this a lot more seriously.
(May. 16, 2013  12:48 AM)Time Wrote: Think brought up who he is as a person in real life and I think it is only fair that I do the same, I have been a member on this website for almost a year now and have met a ton of really great people at tournaments who would be willing to vouch for me that I am a reasonably decent person as well and not some profit-hungry weasel as you have attempted to portray me as. Heck, I gave away a ton of stuff at the last tournament I attended and sold at, admittedly its not stuff I was losing a lot of money on, but it was a gesture of kindness towards kids who do not have the income to buy beys with the readiness that I do. Honestly, think what you are missing is a why, why in the world would I agree to do such an outrageous thing as increase the profits of a person whom I have never met?
1. No, you didn't have to talk about who you are IRL, it's not relevant and no one brought it up. Sporkseller spent half a post making ad-hominem attacks as to me as a person and claimed that I behave as I do because of anonymity, and so I countered that in my response. No one asked who you were, and this just reads like an excuse to mention the giving away free stuff thing.

2. We've already established that you and he are close enough to do this, and as for why you'd do this? I'm assuming you got a cut of the profits somehow. I can't see communication between you two, so I really don't have an answer for that, but it doesn't detract from the fact that you very obviously did it.
May. 16, 2013  1:03 AM
 
Okay, I will be out of it then, I sincerely hope this ends well for all Smile
May. 16, 2013  1:06 AM
 
As I previously mentioned, I did not and I'm not sure why are you just throwing out the truth about what my brother did. Maybe I needed to explain this more, but my brother and I are extremely competitive always trying to one up one another, from hacking each other's accounts, to swimming times, to beyblade and many other things.
May. 16, 2013  1:08 AM
 
(May. 16, 2013  1:06 AM)Time Wrote: As I previously mentioned, I did not and I'm not sure why are you just throwing out the truth about what my brother did. Maybe I needed to explain this more, but my brother and I are extremely competitive always trying to one up one another, from hacking each other's accounts, to swimming times, to beyblade and many other things.

Yeah, great, no evidence for that great coincidence past that "all at the same time" thing when they were two weeks apart? No response to your clairvoyance on stopping as you exactly meet someone's maximum bid over and over again? No? Then please stop posting until you have something meaningful to say.
May. 16, 2013  1:11 AM
 
You certainly do have an unexplainable, illogical, unreasonable vendetta against me. Maybe if you'd actually opened that shrink-wrapped statistics textbook you'd know that there are random occurrences, coincidences that occur to throw off data.
May. 16, 2013  1:11 AM
 
You continue to reference messianic claims and marketing efforts, and claiming this inquisition is being conducted for the benefit of others, yet it seems to me a very personal, envy driven witch hunt and you're light years away (too far gone) from objectivity to actually consider any other possibility. I don't have 'time' for this - believe what you will...and that goes for the rest of you reading this as well.

You're my own little Judas, and I couldn't be the messiah without you to make me a martyr. Preach of my evils while I do good for all!!
May. 16, 2013  1:14 AM
 
(May. 16, 2013  1:11 AM)Time Wrote: You certainly do have an unexplainable, illogical, unreasonable vendetta against me. Maybe if you'd actually opened that shrink-wrapped statistics textbook you'd know that there are random occurrences, coincidences that occur to throw off data.

I have a bunch of other textbooks, I did a lot of stats in HS too. This is well into the territory of Significance. Time, I don't give half a damn about you beyond you saying dumb stuff about things I still care about (plastics) and misleading others - your involvement in this just made my gut twist itself into a knot because it meant trying to respond to you without getting myself in trouble, which is really, really hard given my intolerance for terrible arguments.

(May. 16, 2013  1:11 AM)sporkseller Wrote: You continue to reference messianic claims and marketing efforts, and claiming this inquisition is being conducted for the benefit of others, yet it seems to me a very personal, envy driven witch hunt and you're light years away (too far gone) from objectivity to actually consider any other possibility. I don't have 'time' for this - believe what you will...and that goes for the rest of you reading this as well.

You're my own little Judas, and I couldn't be the messiah without you to make me a martyr. Preach of my evils while I do good for all!!

Why would I envy you? You can't even construct an argument based on evidence, instead resorting to persistent ad-hominem against me. I've already made it plenty clear I've nothing to gain from this, and the admins of the site know I was pretty reluctant to get involved publicly, because between my GAD and Time's involvement, this was bound to cause me a lot of stress - and I was awake for a good 24 hours that day because I couldn't sleep. Right now, I've got a really severe case of the shakes! I really, really don't like this, but I felt it was necessary for the community's good.

Unless either of you are going to construct an argument out of anything more than name calling and 100 ways of saying "no i didn't" and nothing more, I think this is done, honestly.
May. 16, 2013  1:30 AM
 
(May. 16, 2013  1:11 AM)Time Wrote: You certainly do have an unexplainable, illogical, unreasonable vendetta against me. Maybe if you'd actually opened that shrink-wrapped statistics textbook you'd know that there are random occurrences, coincidences that occur to throw off data.

Coincidences don't follow patterns. Try again, master of statistics. Th!nk has a very explainable, logical and reasonable vendetta against you. You have 100% proven to have engaged in extremely shady eBay practices, yet your defense is laughable. 'My brother did it because we are competitive'. That sounds almost exactly like a 5 year old claiming he didn't do his homework because the dog ate it. Maybe you should, you know, prevent your brother from committing crimes on your account?

Sporkseller Wrote:You continue to reference messianic claims and marketing efforts, and claiming this inquisition is being conducted for the benefit of others, yet it seems to me a very personal, envy driven witch hunt and you're light years away (too far gone) from objectivity to actually consider any other possibility. I don't have 'time' for this - believe what you will...and that goes for the rest of you reading this as well.

You're my own little Judas, and I couldn't be the messiah without you to make me a martyr. Preach of my evils while I do good for all!!

It's not personal or envy-driven at all. He, and the rest of the forum, require an answer from you because this is a big deal. You have presented yourself as a trustworthy, 'for the people' seller when just a few pages back you defended outrageous prices based on your assertion that you're a true-blooded american capitalist or whatever. What caused the sudden switch? Your business practices were exactly like Oki's and now you bash him every chance you get.

Just to quickly address another point: you were wondering how much your prices influenced Oki's. The answer is none. Oki has never paid to price competition because Oki's costs are very different to yours. A lot of the reasoning behind your cheap prices is that you have a fantastic supplier and resources which allow you to obtain rare beyblades for ridiculously cheap prices i.e. a black Dragoon GT set for $75 and a NIB Shining God MS for $50. You have cheaper prices than Oki because you have cheaper sources. It's not like you're selling at a loss or anything. If I was you and I felt in a charitable mood, I'd stick the Black Dragoon GT set on eBay for $150.

What I'm saying is, your competitive prices are relative. It's not like you try harder than Oki; his sources just suck compared to yours. Oki's prices have been falling because he can't sell anything anymore but continues to buy more and more beyblades from Y!JA. It's better for him to take a loss or a much slimmer margin than to just have his products sitting there as overall demand within the beyblade market lowers and the items lose even further value.

Back on topic now, the reason th!nk is being relentless is because you haven't provided anywhere near an adequate defense. You owe it to the people of this forum who trust you to explain why you're not part of this because Time's bidding actions serve to benefit you the most. You need to explain why they would benefit Time alone and not yourself. You referenced your problem with sandeeandbill or whoever before but that doesn't really apply in this case because Time did not go past matching the bid. If he went higher than 500 and retracted his bid, the other bidder would win so that tactic makes no sense at all, unless you're implying Time is a dense eBayer. If that's the argument, then he was a little too calculating with his incremental bids for me to believe this was his plan alone.
May. 16, 2013  1:46 AM
 
Yes, my password is now well past the ability of my brother to guess it and I would hope I will never have to ask an ebay seller to cancel a bid again. What you are missing as well as think is that I would have nothing to gain from a practice such as this, obviously sporkseller would, but there is no reason I would agree to something like this. I will say this last thing and not post again in this thread related to this issue, every bid I myself have issued on my ebay account have been for products I truly wanted at prices I was willing to pay. I will admit there was one incident in which I came to an agreement to not pay because I was under the impression there was a takara zeus in the lot which turned out to be a hasbro one, but that is the only time I can be held accountable for any action regarding a bid cancellation.
May. 16, 2013  1:52 AM
 
But the question still remains for you- how did your brother drive the other bidder to their max time and time again?

If he really wanted to get back at you, wouldn't he make sure you won so you would waste money on something you didn't want, instead of losing every time, which doesn't actually affect you.
May. 16, 2013  1:57 AM
 
(May. 16, 2013  1:46 AM)Time Wrote: Yes, my password is now well past the ability of my brother to guess it and I would hope I will never have to ask an ebay seller to cancel a bid again. What you are missing as well as think is that I would have nothing to gain from a practice such as this, obviously sporkseller would, but there is no reason I would agree to something like this. I will say this last thing and not post again in this thread related to this issue, every bid I myself have issued on my ebay account have been for products I truly wanted at prices I was willing to pay. I will admit there was one incident in which I came to an agreement to not pay because I was under the impression there was a takara zeus in the lot which turned out to be a hasbro one, but that is the only time I can be held accountable for any action regarding a bid cancellation.


Already covered it - I don't have a concrete answer because I can't see communication between you and sporkseller, but I assume you're getting a cut of the action. The reason for you to do it is pretty much irrelevant given the mountain of evidence showing that you did.

shinobu: The "brother" excuse is only for the bids that were cancelled, his excuse for doing that was discussed on the previous page and the bottom of the page before it, I suggest you read back for that.
May. 16, 2013  2:00 AM
 
My response is already on record. I owe nothing more than that. It's 8:45 PM here, I have kids, and I'm taking care of them. People here continue to have access to my prices. I have a whopping two active auctions.

Envy? You know exactly what I'm talking about. If it were any other item aside from the dragoon GT set this would have died before it got started. You would not have spent the time finding the info you did and I likely wouldn't have pulled the auction, but I was not about to lose a last in a lifetime item because of bidding games.

As for canceling bids. It happens. It happens to me all the time. I listed a Bey Ultimate Stadium for a 3rd or 4th time before the winner actually paid for it. Time has asked me a couple times to cancel bids, but again I don't pay attention to most of my auctions until a winner is determined. The dragoon GT set was an exception for obvious reasons, and my actions were likewise different on it than they have otherwise been.

I believe time was trying to do me a favor in a way, but I've nonetheless blocked him from bidding because its both unethical and a violation of rules.

I've seen Oki's buy prices and they are FAR better than mine. On a mobile phone auction he paid ¥2,100 for nine NIB RB9's, and ¥2,000 for seven NIB RB11's. he uses YJA to prevent me from getting decent prices there, not because he hopes to necessarily make a profit himself. For a period of about a month he chose to bid on every single item i was leading on. That is just as bad as what im being accused of and is just as big a violation of rules. he considers me a threat for obvious reasons - and a few other users have informed me as much so these are not just delusional paranoia based accusations. I've found some other good sources yes, but most have very limited selection so I've for to search every night to find decent deals. I'm tired, and I'm done. Yes I forgot to mention my last large shipment which arrived yesterday. Other than that I may have 5 or 6 items still in transit. My announcement was that I'm not buying anymore for the purpose of selling. That remains the case and I even shared some of my better sources with a user who asked about them.

Back on topic -

I have and will continue to deny claims of price fixing. Is there anymore I can provide to substantiate my denial? Name it. Otherwise, it's time to piss off - for all of us.
May. 16, 2013  2:07 AM
 
Wait, can a seller even see what someone's maximum bid on their auction is ? Or is that why you write that sporkseller supposedly cancelled the newly leading bid from Time if it accidentally reached past the other bidder's maximum bid ? Is there proof of that ?

Personally, it seems like there are just a few holes in this story that do not make it possible to throw such harsh accusations yet, but both sides definitely need to provide as much neutral proof as possible right now.
May. 16, 2013  2:12 AM
 
sporkseller: What? You think I care about a beyblade I could never afford, and if I could, could never justify using? My thoughts about the black GT set are on record - I think it's super-duper cool, but it's one of those things that have a very melancholic feel surrounding them - I could never use it, and my interest in tops is very well known to not be "looking at them in their boxes" lol. I have a grand total of $60 in my bank account and $25.65 in my wallet - I'm unemployed and bad with money, and don't sell beyblades. Aint no interest there. You really think I've come back from a hiatus to do something that will cause me a lot of stress and potentially risk severe damage to my reputation given your crowd of supporters, out of envy and not care for the community? I'm afraid the reason I looked into it is just part of my "inquisitive nature" - pretty much the exact same thing is why I have made more than 12,000 posts about spinning tops on this site.
You really think that you're special, that I investigated claims that someone who had a huge fanbase on here was involved in shady business practices at the expense of people in the blading community, after I made a post based on hearing rumors to that effect (and to express the fact I felt people were overreacting to you not listing any new items) to see what reaction it would get which resulted in someone PMing me with a whole lot of evidence pointing towards my suspicions being correct, because I envy you having a rare beyblade, despite the fact I'm not all that interested in beyblade at the moment? Don't fool yourself, cos you're not fooling anyone else.

(May. 16, 2013  2:07 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Wait, can a seller even see what someone's maximum bid on their auction is ? Or is that why you write that sporkseller supposedly cancelled the newly leading bid from Time if it accidentally reached past the other bidder's maximum bid ? Is there proof of that ?

Personally, it seems like there are just a few holes in this story that do not make it possible to throw such harsh accusations yet, but both sides definitely need to provide as much neutral proof as possible right now.

No they cannot - but as I've said there are obvious signs the price-inflater can go by, I detailed this in response to ShinobuXD on the previous page (that post also includes a non-user-error example of why the process can still result in someone trying to do this accidentally bidding over the opponent's maximum). I think it's the second link in the section of my initial post dedication to the numerous times Time has stopped bidding when another bidder is at maximum that shows him stopping at a nice even number instead of continuing, because that could well be their maximum bid. It actually isn't their max bid, but it's a fair guess of what it might be (most people just use rounded numbers), here's the link: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V...wauto=true

Yes that is why I wrote that, and the cancellation is shown by ebay. You can check the links I posted of bid deletions, and look at the times on the bids and the deletion times.

I've posted a tonne of proof (literally everything I could possibly find to prove the argument without breaking laws/being omniscient because I expected sporkseller to respond with something cohesive rather than ad-hominem - I guess I outdid myself?), and got nothing back from them in response other than attacks on my character/motivations, and weak excuses based on absolutely no evidence. Personally, and with all due respect, I would appreciate it if you didn't claim there were holes in my argument/evidence when it's down to you not fully understanding ebay, as that could mislead users into thinking Sporkseller is legitimate, when said holes do simply not exist.
While what's happened here should be very obvious to anyone with a decent amount of experience using eBay (and blindingly so to anyone who is aware of this specific example of fraudulent activity), I have done my best to explain everything as clearly as possible in my posts, so I suggest reading them in full - I did write them with the intent of having you, and other users, read them and make their own minds up based on the evidence provided after all, haha Smile
May. 16, 2013  4:24 AM
 
Guys, can we have discussions or even arguments without throwing personal tantrums?

Anyway, personally, I don't understand much about how eBay works from a seller's point of view, so I can't really comment much. After reading the posts about this issue, unfortunately, I do have to say that it seems like the evidence points toward a collusion of some sort. Be it a one-sided or a mutual collusion, intentional or otherwise.

With any bias removed, I can personally vouch for sporkseller's legitimacy outside of eBay. I recently bought some beys from him for a good price, his correspondence was prompt, and the whole experience was positive and transparent. I have yet to receive the beys, but I have zero reason to doubt his practice outside of eBay thus far.

That said, money is a sensitive issue, and prices are usually the root of all arguments. I'm sure we all appreciate and have enjoyed results from 3-Dog's, and th!nk's diligence to track and keep the beys prices reasonable. I know personally, I have benefited from it in more than one occasions. That said, it's fully within the seller's discretion to price their items, regardless of the cheap suppliers they have. Sporkseller has all the rights in the world to put a price tag of $150, $500, or even $1,000 for a NIB Black Dragoon GT even if he got it for $75, or even $5. We can only go so far in educating buyers about beys' worth.

As staffs, we try not to show any bias tendencies. So I urge both parties to just simply present the facts as is, and have a civil discussion. No flame war. That is all.

It is a matter of eBay, if members feel strongly about it, then alert them. Let eBay resolve it themselves.
May. 16, 2013  4:44 AM
 
Oh, no, I am well aware that sporkseller is completely legitimate in terms of sending items and so on, his ebay feedback and feedback from users on here attests to that, and I'm quite sure users buying from him can be comfortable in the knowledge they will get their items, and I have also admitted his prices are generally more than fair.
Using other accounts, or having friends use their accounts, to bump auctions is a fairly common activity even among otherwise legitimate sellers, and usually I probably wouldn't care so much (I am, after all, pretty lazy), however the fact it is being done by/to the benefit of someone claiming they care about the market and low prices, and the fact that it was going to happen with an auction that got up to $500 before being cancelled are why I felt it had to be exposed - I am very uncomfortable seeing a community I care about "taken for a ride" so to speak.

I'm just making this post to make it clear that I am not accusing sporkseller of scamming users out of items - just colluding with Time to get more money out of buyers on auction items. While I do think their behaviour needs to be reported to ebay, I do not feel users need to worry about buying from sporkseller unless they notice suspicious activity by opposing bidders. I would, however, still encourage the staff to take action on this as I feel it pertains to the safety of our community for buyers - and I feel that Time and sporkseller's actions are to the detriment of our community (particularly the fragile plastics community) - and that's ignoring the deception, and thus I do feel that it is something that should be addressed on-site.

As for further evidence, unless given something to rebuff (and I haven't been given anything solid to rebuff so far), I don't think there's any more I can post, so, aside from one last (very important, pertaining to the last line of your post) thing I am waiting on Kai-V's permission to post (seeing as I don't want to overstep my position), I don't have much more to say unless there's something I need to respond to, and will keep quiet as directed.

Edit: oh there is one more thing actually: I would also like to point out that Time is new to ebay, whereas sporkseller has had an account since 1999. I (and others the topic has come up with) do not think Time, or anyone that new to ebay, would be able to figure out the whole "pushing the opponent to their max autobid" thing, nor know when to stop in the case that they might accidentally bid more than the opponent's max auto-bid - such as in the auction I linked in response to Kai-V's most recent post (it contains a gabriel) (an extremely common reason for the use of this tactic is to ensure the seller breaks even on items without using the buyer-deterring reserve price or the appropriate starting price - though as we can see from the black GT auction, greed is also a big motivator haha). I feel that as what Time was doing is at this point undeniable (even he hasn't attempted to defend it since my response outlining why his excuses were completely insufficient), this is quite significant in implicating sporkseller, the person who profits from Time's actions, and thus should be highlighted.
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