Why did I use Force? Because it looked better. But i did try it with Ring and it was more difficult to maintain the flower pattern because it moves faster.

Yeah, I found the same. Wondering if the Disk of choice will vary depending on the condition of Xtreme, because it seems quite difficult to maintain the flower pattern on a mint one.

Awesome! Thanks for the tests cannon! Were either of the layers used worn at all? Honestly, I thought there would be as many ko's as bursts, if not more.

I agree, Xtreme facilitates Knockouts a lot more than Bursts, so there should have been a few hah.

Awesome! Thanks for the tests cannon! Were either of the layers used worn at all? Honestly, I thought there would be as many ko's as bursts, if not more.

Both new! Valkyrie was from the Entry Set and Odin was from RB2 that both came today.

I just want to propose a question

From my personal tests

Low spin Odin > Fast spin valk

High spin odin < low spin Valk

Same spin odin = same spin Valk

That's just my theory so i was wondering what spin power you used for your tests between VFX and OHD @[Cannon], just want to know if this theory also works with rubber drivers not just heavy accel vs heavy defense.

Not sure why but I have no clue what you mean by Low spin Odin being greater than higher spin Valkyrie etc. aha.. Do you mine elaborating a bit?

Why did I use Force? Because it looked better. But i did try it with Ring and it was more difficult to maintain the flower pattern because it moves faster.

Yeah, I found the same. Wondering if the Disk of choice will vary depending on the condition of Xtreme, because it seems quite difficult to maintain the flower pattern on a mint one.

Xtreme is actually easy to create the flower pattern but some disks just makes it lose it after the first few hits or spins.

Awesome! Thanks for the tests cannon! Were either of the layers used worn at all? Honestly, I thought there would be as many ko's as bursts, if not more.

I agree, Xtreme facilitates Knockouts a lot more than Bursts, so there should have been a few hah.

Valkyrie bursted Odin within the first few hits (and some even with low velocity when i thought it would lose), however other layers KO more than burst.

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Check out my YouTube Channel! BlackOutCannon 
New videos every week.

He's referring to the spin velocity, which basically means launching weaker/stronger.

But these seem contradictory:

Low spin Odin > Fast spin valk

High spin odin < low spin Valk

So I hope he will elaborate.

Or perhaps he is indeed refering to the problem you also had, where launching at full power actually resulted in an uncontrolled Beyblade that exited the stadium all the time ?

No i'm reffering strictly to spin velocity like brad mentioned.

In this case the max possible velocity where xtreme is still controlable and where defense almost hits the ridge, and low spin being just a very light launch where its still possible to OS something like VHA but where it is also slow enough so it doesnt get bursted easily by VHA, hopefully that makes sense.

So I had finally got to do testings on Valkyrie Force Xtreme after almost a week of owning Xtreme, haha.

Odin Heavy Defense vs. Valkyrie Force Xtreme
Valkyire mint. Semi-worn Xtreme. Odin launched first all matches.
OHD: 13/20 (3 SF, 10 BF)
VFX: 7/20 (3 OF, 4 BF)
VFX win percentage: 35%
Average clicks lost per match:
Odin Heavy Defense: 2.75 clicks
Valkyrie Force Xtreme: 3.05 clicks

Sorry I had to use Defense! Presently do not own Needle. :c

As odd as it is, Valkyrie Force Xtreme seemed to be very inconsistent from my testings. It was very rarely able to Burst or knock out Odin and on occasion, Bursted on contact with Odin. Slow launching Valkyrie may get better results, but would be a risky choice with how poor Xtreme's stamina is.

I still feel like Accel is going to stay the norm (maybe until Zeyphr's release) for aggressive defense, as I had mentioned in my Odin Force Xtreme thread. Versatility seems to play a pretty major factor in Burst. With Wyvern Heavy Accel, you'd have good defense but can also be capable of out-spinning combos with Claw or Survive, which would most likely be vice-versa for Wyvern Xtreme combos.

You think Accel would really be that good though against Xtreme? I guess you could sliding shoot it to avoid it, but if you stall there is a good chance of getting KO'ed. I guess that would be a good one to test, trying to avoid Xtreme better with Accel. I just stalled them both in my tests. Blow and Needle seem to be able to avoid better from what I have seen, becasue they can kinda stall halfway between the middle and ridge, but I haven't really tried the above avoidance testing

Some quick thoughts on Xtreme – no test results from me (yet), since I haven't actually played that much.

It takes a bit of use for Xtreme to show its potential. Fresh out of the package, it's an uncontrollable, slick mess and will frequently self-KO or just ram into the walls. Once it's been worn down a bit, though, it's pretty easy to create a nice flower pattern.

As I'd hoped, Amaterios really shows a lot more potential with Xtreme than it did with Accel. I can't say definitively whether it's better than Valkyrie for this, but I get the sense that anything less than a mint Valkyrie is going to cause problems with self-Bursting. Amaterios feels more reliable and less like a prayer to the Burst Gods.

Xtreme buffs Attack in terms of movement and raw power, but there are major gameplay issues that need to be addressed, because anything lesser than the strongest teeth will feel unreliable.

I didn't find Xcalibur nor Minoboros promising with Xtreme. Really ready for Victory Valkyrie, already ... please don't suck.

Yeah I need to try Amaterios. I think that a mint Valkyrie is good on Xtreme, but you can't power launch it, or it will self burst. Amaterios' teeth may be the answer to that problem, as long as it does enough damage in its short spin time (because I assume the spin time is horrible).
And yeah, lets hope they fix the tooth wear issue with Victory Valkyrie. That would be awesome. But who knows, regular Valkyrie could still reign supreme for a while, look at phws pegasus. Seems like they outdid themselves a bit with it. Hard to think of a better design than a triangle with really sharp teeth. But hopefully, since it's another Valkyrie, they can just keep the same design and improve upon it (especially the teeth plz).

Equipment:
2x Long Winders
1x Beylauncher w/ Grip, Rubber Assist, and Angle Grip
B-18 Standard Type Beystadium
1x Prime Xtreme
1x New Xtreme
New Valkyrie, Evil-eye, Odin, and Xcalibur
Used Amaterios (~200 round uses)

Here are pictures of the wear of my prime Xtreme:

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Image: jYThRCh.png]

[Image: JRDfjIs.jpg]

Prime on left, New on right.

Amaterios Heavy Xtreme vs Odin Heavy Defense
*AHX launched modaretly w/ a bit used Xtreme, OHD weak launched (Tests done with Mitsu and myself)*

AHX Wins: 8/20 (6 BF's, 2 OF's)
OHD Wins: 12/20 (3 BF's, 1 OF, 8 SF's)
1 Draw (DBF)

AHX 40% Win Rate

Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme vs Evil-Eye Heavy Needle
*VHX hard launch w/ prime Xtreme, EHN launched hard*

VHX Wins: 13/20 (9 BF's, 4 OF's)
EHN Wins: 7/10 (3 BF's, 1 OF, 3 SF's)

VHX 65% Win Rate

Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme vs Odin Heavy Needle
*VHX hard launch w/ prime Xtreme, OHN weak launched*

VHX Wins: 12/20 (4 BF's, 8 OF's)
OHN Wins: 8/20 (5 BF's, 1 OF, 2 SF's)

VHX 60% Win Rate

Xcalibur Heavy Xtreme vs Odin Heavy Defense
*OHD Weak Launch, XHX Full power launch w/ new Xtreme*

XHX Wins: 15/20 (10 BF's, 4 OF's, 1 SF)
OHD Wins: 5/20 (4 BF's, 1 OF)
3 Draws (All DBFs)

XHX 75% Win Rate

Here is a video I did of XHX vs OHN so you can see how these tests went

Spoiler (Click to View)

I did some tests to see which disks work better with Xtreme.

Equipment:

Spoiler (Click to View)

B-09 Beystadium
Beylauncher
Lightly used Valkyrie
Valkyrie shot with sliding shoot
OHD shot first

Valkyrie Spread Xtreme v Odin Heavy Defense
VSX: 9/20, 4 KO, 5 Burst - 45%
OHD: 11/20, 4 OS, 3 KO, 4 Burst - 55%

Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme v Odin Heavy Defense
VHX: 10/20, 7 KO, 3 Burst - 50%
OHD: 10/20, 4 OS, 6 KO - 50%

Valkyrie Central Xtreme v Odin Heavy Defense
VCX: 7/20, 4 KO, 3 Burst - 35%
OHD: 13/20, 5 OS, 3 KO, 6 Burst - 65%

Valkyrie Force Xtreme v Odin Heavy Defense
VFX: 6/20, 6 KO - 30%
OHD: 14/20, 7 OS, 2 KO, 3 Burst

So, Central and Force seemed to be the worst, which is odd because I've had good results with VFX before. Spread and Heavy seem to be on par. If anyone has any tests or experience to back any of these up, I'd love to hear them.

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That's not how the Force works.

Notice how heavy keeps the weight central yet spread all round while force puts it by the contact points. This may be a factor in why Force burst more and might explain why you had good results with it when Valkyrie was fresher.
The higher burst threshold of a newer Valkyrie would reduce that negative influence of Force, letting its attack potential shine through.

I used my Valkyrie from the BB-08 Start Dash set ... which is the one i got from the beginning of Burst for tests AND regular play. I would say that it bursts easily compared to a fresh one, yet still gives similar results to a new one. Xtreme is pretty new too.

Valkyrie Force Xtreme VS Odin Heavy Defense
Valkyrie: 2 KO, 15 Bursts - 85% win rate
Odin: 2 SF - 15%

Spoiler (Click to View)

1. Tie burst
2. V burst
3. V burst
4. V burst
5. O SF
6. Tie burst
7. V burst
8. V burst
9. V burst
10. V burst
11. V burst
12. Tie burst
13. V burst
14. Tie burst/KO
15. Odin SF
16. Valkyrie KO
17. Valkyrie B .. Had like 4 rotations left and still bursted it
18. Valkyrie B
19. V KO
20. Tie burst
21. Odin SF
22. Valkyrie B
23. Valkyrie B
24. Valkyrie B

How are you guys launching it? Is it maintaining the flower pattern properly?

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Check out my YouTube Channel! BlackOutCannon 
New videos every week.

Are you weak launching Odin?

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Well, according to 1234beyblade's overkill results, launching Odin Heavy Defense weakly is not the key :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Ban-Odin...pid1310156

Yeah, it's more of a moderate launch. Not too hard so it Bursts or gets KOed, but hard enough where it can burst attackers and outspin them.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Are you weak launching Odin?

I was launching it moderately.

---

Check out my YouTube Channel! BlackOutCannon 
New videos every week.

I know 1234beyblade probably launched the Attack type as hard as possible, and if he made them follow the flower pattern all the time, then surely it is on the Defense type we have to work on if we cannot get statistics similar to his. We are doing something wrong, because even he can defend against his hyper aggressive launch.

I did some tests.

Valkyrie Force Xtreme vs Odin Heavy Defense
Valkyrie has never been used, from B-15
Odin has been used but not significantly
Xtreme is in a prime state
Redos done if sliding shoot not performed properly

Valkyrie: 9 wins (7 KO, 2 BF) (average 1.93 clicks lost, likely because it's brand new and has strong teeth)
Odin: 21 wins (12 OS, 6 KO, 3 BF) (average 2.3 clicks lost)

Odin win percentage: 70%

Detailed Results (Click to View)

1. Odin OS - 3 clicks Odin, 1 click Valkyrie
2. Odin KO - 2 clicks Odin, 1 click valk
3. Valkyrie KO, 1 click each
4. Odin KO, 1 click each
5. Odin OS, 2 clicks each
6. Odin OS, 1 click each
7. Valkyrie KO, odin lost 2 clicks, Valkyrie 1
8. Odin OS, 2 clicks for Odin, 1 click for Valkyrie
9. Odin OS, 1 click Odin, 3 clicks Valkyrie
10. Valkyrie KO, 1 click Valk, 0 clicks Odin
11. Odin KO, 3 clicks Odin, 2 clicks Valkyrie
12. Valkyrie BF, 4 clicks Odin, 2 clicks Valkyrie
13. Odin BF, 1 click Odin, 4 clicks valk
14. Odin OS, 1 click Odin, 2 clicks Valk
15. Valkyrie KO, 2 clicks Valk 1 click Odin
16. Odin KO, 1 click Odin, 2 clicks Valkyrie
17. Valkyrie KO, 2 clicks Odin, 3 clicks Valkyrie
18. Odin OS, 1 click Odin, 3 clicks Valkyrie
19. Odin OS, 2 clicks Odin 1 click Valkyrie
20. Odin KO, 2 clicks Valkyrie, 1 click Odin
21. Odin OS, 2 clicks each
22. Odin BF, 2 clicks Odin 4 clicks Valkyrie
23. Valkyrie KO, 1 click each
24. Odin KO, 3 clicks Odin, 2 clicks Valkyrie
25. Odin OS, 2 clicks Valkyrie, 0 clicks Odin
26. Valkyrie BF, 4 clicks Odin 2 clicks Valk
27. Odin OS, 2 clicks each
28. Odin BF, 2 clicks Odin 4 clicks Valkyrie
29. Valkyrie KO, 2 clicks each
30. Odin OS, 1 click each

I might test against OHB later on. Note: I used a moderate launch leaning on the weak side.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Man, clicks cannot be lost, I really think we should switch to what makes more sense : teeth skipped.

Man, clicks cannot be lost, I really think we should switch to what makes more sense : teeth skipped.

I'm fine with either, but to worry about if clicks are literally a thing that can be lost is a bit pedantic lol

Terminology is a big thing in Beyblade hahah.

Terminology is a big thing in Beyblade hahah.

Well, we kinda made it one and just made up terminology as we went ... probably something we should review as we head into the third generation. "Clicks lost" is a good description because you can understand it even if you don't understand how the mechanism works. And "teeth skipped" almost sounds like something going wrong, since skipping parts in a mechanism is usually bad.

Anyway ... not like it matters that much ...