You said the parts have to have contact but the base wouldn't have contact with the other blade... Also you've said it's not possible but you haven't explained at all why it isn't. Anyway i'd look up some of th!nk's old posts since he had a far better understanding than most (including me). Also fine rounded and not perfectly round (I thought this was obvious anyway because there aren't any plastics AR's that perfectly round)
Wide Survivor
(Feb. 23, 2016 1:02 AM)Ultra Wrote: You said the parts have to have contact but the base wouldn't have contact with the other blade... Also you've said it's not possible but you haven't explained at all why it isn't. Anyway i'd look up some of th!nk's old posts since he had a far better understanding than most (including me). Also fine rounded and not perfectly round (I thought this was obvious anyway because there aren't any plastics AR's that perfectly round)
I think I´ve made it pretty clear in my last post, but I´ll explain it once more and also with an illustration.
First of all: I´ve never said anything about perfectly round AR´s, so I´m not sure why you´re bringing that up. Anyways, here´s the physical explanation:
"Stealing spin" is basically transferring angular momentum from one beyblade to another. This is only possible, if at least one part of each bey can interlock with another. It doesn´t matter what part, it can be the base (if the WD or whatever isn´t too big), the AR or whatever. To a certain degree even the WD, but then it has no be not perfectly round. This is one example for how that transfer works and with that the literal meaning of LAD:
Picture 1: The zombie (beyblade 2) spins slower than the other one.
Picture 2: The attacking beyblade approaches and
picture 3: a protruding part of the attacking beyblade (let´s say a spike of the AR) hits the other beyblade at a protruding part of this one with force f, which is tangential to the the basically circular shape. Then you´ve got a lever arm l and the hit will transfer an angular momentum to the zombie of the magnitude delta m = f*l. Because of the conservation of momentum according to Newton the momentum the zombie gained is now subtracted from the attacking beyblade´s angular momentum (picture 4). Spin has been "stolen" or in plain words: One beyblade has pushed on the other sacrificing his own spin power.
If one beyblade is perfectly round (right picture), e.g. has a wide survivor, there´s just no radial perpendicular area the attacking beyblade could hit so that the force f is about tangential to the circle, or in other words, there is almost no lever arm to transfer momentum. The beyblade evades the attack so that it has (almost) no effect considering the momentum (spin) and is only pushed away, which makes it so perfect for survival, but technically not for a zombie.
Spoiler (Click to View)
![[Image: output_i_KIj_O8.gif]](https://s30.postimg.org/c0tppr6m9/output_i_KIj_O8.gif)
Well sorry but I don't have any physics knowledge. As for th!nk all I said was look up what he thought because he seemed to have a decent understanding. I.E. nothing like what you said.
That's why I'm just explaining my point. So, to get back to where we started: With the explanation in my last post, would you agree now that wide survivor's perfectly round shape improving its LAD ability is simply wrong, because it's physically impossible?
i'm not sure unless its round shape it have some friction on contact. just a point I light up.
(Feb. 24, 2016 1:11 AM)loyd87 Wrote: i'm not sure unless its round shape it have some friction on contact. just a point I light up.
Yes, there is always a little friction when there's contact. But since every WD is made of plain, "slippery" metal, this doesn't have to be taken into account, because it's almost nothing. There is of course a little less when it's perfectly round, but it's still between very little and nothing, and also less friction only improves the survival ability and not the momentum transfer and with that LAD.
(Feb. 24, 2016 12:41 AM)~Stoney~ Wrote: That's why I'm just explaining my point. So, to get back to where we started: With the explanation in my last post, would you agree now that wide survivor's perfectly round shape improving its LAD ability is simply wrong, because it's physically impossible?
Yeah, I can definitely agree with your points, which has been proven somewhat because twin horn + dragon saucer is better for Spin stealing in general compared to Takara Twin Horn, based on the fact that the attacking bey would have something to latch on to. So what would you suggest I rewrite that particular section to?
Something along the lines of:
Quote:Wide Survivor is a staple for all Zombie Combinations, due to the fact that it's completely circular, which aids in avoiding recoil from the opposing bey, and to improve the survival capabilities for the Zombie. Here are some examples throughout the generations:
is what I can only think of, haha.
![[Image: 7678.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/513941232419078157/599118897811030027/7678.png)
(Feb. 28, 2016 2:51 AM)Shirayuki Wrote:(Feb. 24, 2016 12:41 AM)~Stoney~ Wrote: That's why I'm just explaining my point. So, to get back to where we started: With the explanation in my last post, would you agree now that wide survivor's perfectly round shape improving its LAD ability is simply wrong, because it's physically impossible?
Yeah, I can definitely agree with your points, which has been proven somewhat because twin horn + dragon saucer is better for Spin stealing in general compared to Takara Twin Horn, based on the fact that the attacking bey would have something to latch on to. So what would you suggest I rewrite that particular section to?
Something along the lines of:
Quote:Wide Survivor is a staple for all Zombie Combinations, due to the fact that it's completely circular, which aids in avoiding recoil from the opposing bey, and to improve the survival capabilities for the Zombie. Here are some examples throughout the generations:
is what I can only think of, haha.
Yup, sounds excellent.
Just to make sure, I discussed the topic today with a fellow student and he agreed 100% that for transferring spin, you need parts interlocking. The closer it´s to being perfectly round the less momentum can be transferred, which improves survival, but definitely decreases LAD. A good comparison might be pushing on a merry-go-round: Try it once grabbing the handrail and once with a flat hand.
The only step I could take next would be asking my mechanics professor directly, but I guess this won´t be neccessary, right?
This has to be changed in the zombie article, too. Maybe the physical explanation should be added as well, since the idea of a zombie being perfectly round in the best case seems to have established pretty much. Although I´m really wondering, who came up with that idea in the first place and especially what was that person´s explanation supposed to be...
Yeah, I think Twin Saucer is the best AR setup for sure. It is so perfect. It holds the saucer tight enough to steal spin, but loose enough to move when hit by an attacker. Really good setup.
Also, I don't know what to think about Wide survivor anymore. Wide defense beat it in spin times on my stamina zombie (BK bearing casing and shaft, 2 big bearings, BK base, survival ring, Gyro bey AR) by like a good 30 seconds. But when I tested with my WB2 shaft zombie, it seemed like wide survivor was the same or better (the spin times were all around (1 minute, and opposed to 2-2.5 min with stamina zombie). I do think that it makes sense to that a lighter disk is easier pushed, for stealing spin, but those times on that stamina zombie are hard to shrug off. Definitely gonna test it more in actually battles
Also, I don't know what to think about Wide survivor anymore. Wide defense beat it in spin times on my stamina zombie (BK bearing casing and shaft, 2 big bearings, BK base, survival ring, Gyro bey AR) by like a good 30 seconds. But when I tested with my WB2 shaft zombie, it seemed like wide survivor was the same or better (the spin times were all around (1 minute, and opposed to 2-2.5 min with stamina zombie). I do think that it makes sense to that a lighter disk is easier pushed, for stealing spin, but those times on that stamina zombie are hard to shrug off. Definitely gonna test it more in actually battles
Quote:Weight: 12 Grams
Wide Survivor is a unique weight disk based on the fact that it's completely round, save for the two notches on either end of the Disk. Although rare, these aspects make it out to be as one of the most used in Stamina and Zombie combos. Wide Survivor can also be utilized in Attack Combinations, but Wide Defense is still the superior option, due to the weight distribution.
Note: Wide Survivor is the same as the Spark Disk, except without flints.
Use In Zombie Customization:
Wide Survivor is a staple for all Zombie Combinations, due to the fact that it's completely circular, which aids in avoiding recoil from the opposing bey, and to improve the survival capabilities for the Zombie. Here are some examples throughout the generations:
1st Generation Zombie:
AR: Roller Defenser
WD: Wide Survivor
BB: Bearing Base
2nd Generation Zombie:
AR: Tiger Defenser (Driger S)
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Left SG (Bearing Version)
SG Shaft: Bearing Version 2 (Wolborg 2)
BB: Defense Grip Base 2 (Wolborg 2)
3rd Generation Zombie:
AR: Twin Horn (White Gabriel G)
Sub-AR: Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Left (Double Bearing Version) (Burning Kerberous)
SG Shaft: Bearing Version 2 (Wolborg 2)
BB: Customize Grip Base (Dragoon V2)
SP: Defense Ring (Voltaic Ape)
Use In Attack Customization:
As previously noted, Wide Survivor can be used in Attack Combinations as a second choice behind Wide Defense. Here are some examples:
AR: Triple Tiger/Triple Wing
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Right Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Inverted Tip) (Seaborg)
AR: Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)
Sub-AR: Screw Zeus (Zeus)
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Right Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Inverted Tip) (Seaborg)
Overall:
Wide Survivor is one of the most sought after and rare Weight Disks of all time. It has very favorable features for Zombie Combinations and has uses in Attack Combinations. Overall, Wide Survivor is essential to any competitive blader's collection
So it looks like this the final draft, haha.
Yo why do you rarely capitalise Weight Disk hahah. I did a couple of changes but if everyone is OK with the information there, then this is another article that is good to go already. Thank you everyone.
Quote:Weight: 12 Grams
Wide Survivor is a unique Weight Disk based on the fact that it's completely round, save for the two notches on either end of the Disk. Although rare, these aspects make it out as one of the most used in Stamina and Zombie combos. Wide Survivor can also be utilized in Attack Combinations, but Wide Defense is still the superior option, due to the weight distribution.
Note: Wide Survivor is the same as the Spark Disk, except without flints.
Use In Zombie Customization:
Wide Survivor is a staple for all Zombie combinations, due to the fact that it's completely circular, which aids in avoiding recoil from the opposing bey, and to improve the survival capabilities for the Zombie. Here are some examples throughout the generations:
1st Generation Zombie:
AR: Roller Defenser
WD: Wide Survivor
BB: Bearing Base
2nd Generation Zombie:
AR: Tiger Defenser (Driger S)
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Left SG (Bearing Version)
SG Shaft: Bearing Version 2 (Wolborg 2)
BB: Defense Grip Base 2 (Wolborg 2)
3rd Generation Zombie:
AR: Twin Horn (White Gabriel G)
Sub-AR: Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Left (Double Bearing Version) (Burning Kerberous)
SG Shaft: Bearing Version 2 (Wolborg 2)
BB: Customize Grip Base (Dragoon V2)
SP: Defense Ring (Voltaic Ape)
Use In Attack Customization:
As previously noted, Wide Survivor can be used in Attack Combinations as a second choice behind Wide Defense. Here are some examples:
AR: Triple Tiger/Triple Wing
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Right Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Inverted Tip) (Seaborg)
AR: Dragon Saucer (Gaia Dragoon G)
Sub-AR: Screw Zeus (Zeus)
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Right Spin Gear (Heavy Metal Core)
BB: Defense Grip Base (Inverted Tip) (Seaborg)
Overall:
Wide Survivor is one of the most sought after and rare Weight Disks of all time. It has very favorable features for Zombie Combinations and has uses in Attack Combinations. Overall, Wide Survivor is essential to any competitive blader's collection
This has been ready to go in my opinion, let's do it!
Cool then. @[Shirayuki], can you do it?
Yeah, I'll get to it really soon.
Thanks to everyone!
Thanks to everyone!
I had a free moment, so I've gone ahead and published this draft. There are still a few things needed in the article, such as products that it is included in and it's debut product, but the information is there for the most part.
Thanks everyone for your collaboration on this article!
Thanks everyone for your collaboration on this article!
Fixed some of the formatting and linked everything in the combos
Pictures will be live shortly
Pictures will be live shortly