Testing Roar on Moon for Defense

fabelavalon · Apr. 25, 2023 3:22 AM

Roar on Moon was suggested to me by Zankye as a possibly viable defense combo. In this thread I will go over my test results against a few of the standard attack builds with both Unite' and Keep'.

For all matchups except the Burst combo, the Roar combo was launched first. In the Burst matchup, I launched alternating which was first. All attack types were launched with a slide shoot with the tip facing toward me. Roar was launched flat and with medium to hard power. Drivers were cleaned of all dust a debris between each round.

Roar Bahamut Mn.U'-10 v Guilty Longinus S'.X'-10
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 9 wins, 7OS, 2KO
Guilty 11 wins, 7KO, 4OS

Roar win%: 45%

Roar Bahamut Mn.U'-10 v Ultimate Belial³ S'.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 7 wins, 3KO 4OS
Ulti 13 wins, 7KO 6OS

Roar win%: 35%

Roar Bahamut Mn.U'-10 v Savior Belial³ Il.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 10 wins, 3KO, 5OS, 2Burst
Savior: 10 wins, 8KO, 2OS

Roar win%: 50%

Roar Bahamut Mn.U'-10 v Xiphoid Perseus S'.X'-4
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 8 wins: 2KO, 6OS
Xiphoid 12 wins: 5KO, 7OS

Roar win%: 40%

Roar Bahamut Mn.U'-10 v Burst Spriggan² Il.Xp-0
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 3 wins, 3OS
Burst 17 wins, 2KO, 15OS

Roar win%: 15%

Overall Win% for Roar Bahamut Mn.U'-10: 37%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Kp'-10 v Guilty Longinus S'.X'-10
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 8 wins, 8OS
Guilty 12 wins, 9KO, 3OS

Roar win%: 40%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Kp'-10 v Savior Belial³ Il.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 9 wins, 4KO, 4OS, 1Burst
Savior 10 wins, 4 KO, 6OS
1 draw

Roar win%: 47.5%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Kp'-10 v Ultimate Belial³ S'.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 7 wins, 3KO, 4OS
Ulti 13 wins, 8KO, 5OS

Roar win%: 35%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Kp'-10 v Xiphoid Perseus S'.X'-4
Indvidual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 2 wins, 1KO, 1OS
Xiphoid 18 wins 10KO, 8OS

Roar win%: 10%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Kp'-10 v Burst Spriggan² Il.Xp-0
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar 3 wins, 3 OS
Burst 17 wins, 4KO, 13OS

Roar win%: 15%

Overall Win% of Roar Bahamut Mn.Kp'-10: 29%

Overall incredibly disappointed this didn't work. Preliminary testing a few days ago with the attack types on Variable' showed very promising results for both left and right spin. The main issue with the build seems to be that Moon just scrapes too dang much. Many of the Out Spin losses were due to Moon scraping right at the last second and causing Roar to stop dead. Both Unite' and Keep' just don't have enough LAD themselves to make up for Moon falling over. Overall KO defense is there, while not impossible to KO, still pretty hard to with only 29% of the matches on Unite' ending with Roar in the pocket, and 35% on Keep'. I want to test this on my very very worn Zeal, but I just don't have the energy to do so tonight.

Let me know your thoughts.

originalzankye · Apr. 25, 2023 3:39 AM

Yeah U' is very much a mint and kinda pray to use Driver, kinda said roar was not consistent enough I found at least Burst Blade can do the work but only for opp spin match-up.

Defense is very hard to revive properly in here if u do the Burst Standard stadium, things like Prominence also fail.

fabelavalon · Apr. 27, 2023 1:25 AM

Okay. So. I really wanted this to work. So here's 300 more rounds. Because I'm a madman.

Same testing procedures as my OP. Octa has no nib. Zeal has nearly no nib, picture of it near the test results.

Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 v Guilty Longinus S'.X'-10
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 5 wins, 5OS
Guilty: 15 wins, 10KO, 5OS

Roar win%: 20%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 v Ultimate Belial³ S'X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 13 wins, 5KO, 8OS
Ulti: 7 wins, 7KO

Roar win%: 65%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 v Savior Belial³ Il.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 11 wins, 4KO, 7OS
Savior: 8 wins, 8KO
1 Draw

Roar win%: 57.5%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 v Xiphoid Perseus S'.X'-4
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 18 wins, 2KO, 16OS
Xiphoid: 1 win, 1OS
1 Draw

Roar win%: 92.5%???

Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 v Burst Spriggan² Il.Xp-0
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 8 wins, 2KO, 6OS
Burst: 12 wins, 2KO, 10OS

Roar win%: 40%

Overall Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 Win%: 55%
% of rounds Roar Bahamut Mn.Ω-10 was KO'd: 27%

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Picture of worn Zeal:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 v Guilty Longinus S'.X'-10
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 9 wins, 1KO, 8OS
Guilty: 11 wins 8KO, 3OS

Roar win%: 45%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 v Ultimate Belial³ S'.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 8 wins, 1KO, 7OS
Ulti: 12 wins, 8KO, 4OS

Roar win%: 40%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 v Savior Belial³ Il.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 12 wins, 4KO, 7OS, 1BF
Savior: 8 wins, 8KO

Roar win%: 60%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 v Xiphoid Perseus S'.X'-4
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 15 wins, 1KO, 14OS
Xiphoid: 5 wins, 5KO

Roar win%: 75%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 v Burst Spriggan² Il.Xp-0(L)
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 2 wins, 1KO, 1OS
Burst: 18 wins, 7KO, 11OS

Roar win%: 10%

Overall Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 win%: 46%
% of rounds Roar Bahamut Mn.Zl-10 was KO'd: 36%

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Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10 v Guilty Longinus S'.X'-10
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 8 wins, 8OS
Guilty: 12 wins, 4KO, 8OS

Roar win%: 40%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10 v Ultimate Belial³ S'.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 3 wins, 1KO, 2OS
Ulti; 16 wins, 9KO, 7OS
1 Draw

Roar win%: 17.5%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10 v Savior Belial³ Il.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 10 wins, 6KO, 4OS
Savior: 9 wins, 6KO, 3OS
1 Draw

Roar win%: 52.5%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10 v Xiphoid Perseus S'.X'-4
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 2 Wins, 2OS
Xiphoid 17 Wins, 5KO, 12OS
1 Draw

Roar win%: 12.5%

Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10 v Burst Spriggan² Il.Xp-0(L)
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Roar: 3 wins, 3OS
Burst: 17 Wins, 1KO, 16OS

Roar win%: 15%

Overall Win% of Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10: 26%
% of rounds Roar Bahamut Mn.Mm'-10 was KO'd: 25%

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Somehow Octa did this best of these three. I started with Octa because I figured it'd just be a meme but here we are. Seeing as the largest issue this build seems to face is scraping, it does make sense that with Octa's extreme amount of LAD and wide base would help. Still not able to tank Guilty well enough to really be considered I think though. Opposite spin defense seems real for Octa. Zeal preformed about as expected, the skirt helped with the scraping issue but just not quite enough. Moment' really under performed. Getting completely decimated by Ultimate. I'm not really sure why Moment' performed so poorly, but it sure did get tossed around.

While its not entirely relevant to the results, I would like to mention that in 500 battles against attack types, Roar became a circle exactly ONCE, 323 matches in. I knew this build would have high burst resistance, but that seems kind of ridiculous.

fabelavalon · Apr. 28, 2023 1:37 PM

There does seem to be potential with Moon Octa. I really like the Prominence gimmick, and how its shield can tank the first hit of attack, which tends to be the hit that matters especially in Attack v Defense. So, i put it to the test against the same contestants as above.

Same testing procedure as above. The first batch of 10 versus each opponent was done with the shield in Light Mode, the second batch in Heavy. Prominence was medium launched, to prevent Octa from running too much.

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Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 v Guilty Longinus S'.X'-10
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Prominence: 14 wins, 14OS
Guilty: 3 wins, 3KO
3 Draws

Prominence win%: 70%
Draw%: 15%

%Light mode shield pop: 40%
%Heavy mode shield pop: 30%

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Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 v Ultimate Belial³ S'.X'-9
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Prominence: 10 wins, 10OS
Ultimate: 10 wins, 7KO, 3OS

Prominence win%: 50%

%Light mode shield pop: 50%
%Heavy mode shield pop: 20%

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Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 v Savior Belial³ Il.X'-3
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Prominence: 12 wins, 1KO, 10OS, 1BF
Savior: 8 wins, 6KO, 1OS, 1BF

Prominence win%: 60%

%Light mode shield pop: 90%
%Heavy mode shield pop: 70%

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Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 v Xiphoid Perseus S'.X'-4
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Prominence: 10 wins, 10OS
Xiphoid: 10 wins, 6KO, 4OS

Prominence win%: 50%

%Light mode shield pop: 40%
%Heavy mode shield pop: 70%

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Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 v Burst Bahamut Il.Xp-0
Individual Round Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Prominence:
Burst: 17 Wins, 4KO, 13OS
3 Draws

Prominence win%: 0%
Draw%: 15%

No shield pop in either mode.

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Overall Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 Win%: 46%
Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 win% versus pure attack: 57.5%

%Rounds Prominence Lucifer Mn.Ω-0 ended in the pocket: 26%

Overall Light Mode Shield Pop%: 44%
Overall Heavy Mode Shield Pop%: 38%

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This short king sure is a tank. After the shield pops the blade sits so low that Ultimate and Savior in particular had a really hard time making blade to blade contact, not allowing subsequent hits to really move Prominence at all. Xiphoid had the easiest time dealing with this build, as it seemed to cause major destabilization, causing Moon to yet again become a Beywheel and die. The Burst Anti-Attack build out spun Prominence every time, even when launching Burst hard as if it were an attack type, it never made a hard enough hit to pop the shield. Honestly not even sure if popping the shield would have helped Prominence win at all in this match-up.

This seems like it has potential. Nearing a 50% win rate against same spin isn't completely ideal, but at least its was all 50%+. Guilty really had a hard time moving this build around the stadium, so at least, we have another potential Guilty killer to compete with Barricade.

Thoughts always appreciated.