For a while now, about a few months, I have been getting overly annoyed with the spam of Hell Kerbecs BD145WD everywhere I go. Even local tournaments I have been hosting have had this issue and we usually have very diverse combos at these tournaments. Everyone seems to MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD as the ultimate stamina type however, it could have always been beaten by a round, low to zero recoil wheel in conjuction with a tall track and a sharp tip which is the true stamina bottom. I held this in for a long time in hopes that people would get away from using this combo all the time for stamina when there are better options but it never happened. Basically, I am saying get rid of the garbage and go back to basics. The wheels used that has the most effective results were Libra, Earth, and Basalt. Here is some testing. Thank you Dan for also giving me Basalt's results.

MF-H Earth Aquario DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Earth: 19/20 (All OS)
HK: 1/20(Very weak KO)

Basalt DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Basalt: 18/20( 1 KO 17 OS)
HK: (2 KO)

MF-H Libra DF145S vs. MF Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Libra: 16/20(2 KO 14 OS)
HK: 4/20 (1 OS 3KO)

So now will you please get rid of that combo now? I really don't know why it is even top-tier for stamina. Real stamina types use S.

Video will be up momentarily.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geAJYg9Dlzk

Awesome.
Glad we have 2 things going at once again, feels good man.
Edit; will do more tests for you soon. (formal ones)

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Wow, I never thought of simplicity.

I want to look into EDS with this too.

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Wow, I never thought of simplicity.

I want to look into EDS with this too.

Unfortunately, you are not the only one but the fact that you want to try more is a very big step. Thank you.

Wow, I never thought of simplicity.

I want to look into EDS with this too.

Unfortunately, you are not the only one but the fact that you want to try more is a very big step. Thank you.

Thanks, a friend of mine has EDS!

Should I get tested Libra, Earth, or Basalt first?

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very interesting results, if you like i can do some tests vs earth as well

thank you for sharing this find

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very interesting results, if you like i can do some tests vs earth as well

thank you for sharing this find

No problem at all. If you do get time, please do some testing. The more the merrier.

I've always known the reason why S has been so severely outclassed is balance issues, but against something that can scrape as easily as BD145 (even in Boost mode) the wobbling can help force BD145 into the ground I presume?

When I get a Hell wheel I will test with EDS and S for Libra and Earth.

EDIT: Couldn't this also finally give some use to MS? More stamina, but easier to KO.

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

Wow, I never thought of simplicity.

I want to look into EDS with this too.

Unfortunately, you are not the only one but the fact that you want to try more is a very big step. Thank you.

Thanks, a friend of mine has EDS!

Should I get tested Libra, Earth, or Basalt first?

Anything is fine.

I've always known the reason why S has been so severely outclassed is balance issues, but against something that can scrape as easily as BD145 (even in Boost mode) the wobbling can help force BD145 into the ground I presume?

When I get a Hell wheel I will test with EDS and S for Libra and Earth.

EDIT: Couldn't this also finally give some use to MS? More stamina, but easier to KO.

No, actually it seems as if recoil from Basalt and Hell keep S in check and BD145 doesn't scrape in Boost mode (okay, but so rarely its a decimal :V) But the wobbling severely hinders Hell BD145, on top of the wobbling that occurs at then end of the round anyway. (I know you've all seen that, right?)

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

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Follow me on Twitter @MahoutsukaiDomo

I've always known the reason why S has been so severely outclassed is balance issues, but against something that can scrape as easily as BD145 (even in Boost mode) the wobbling can help force BD145 into the ground I presume?

When I get a Hell wheel I will test with EDS and S for Libra and Earth.

EDIT: Couldn't this also finally give some use to MS? More stamina, but easier to KO.

No, actually it seems as if recoil from Basalt and Hell keep S in check and BD145 doesn't scrape in Boost mode (okay, but so rarely its a decimal :V) But the wobbling severely hinders Hell BD145, on top of the wobbling that occurs at then end of the round anyway. (I know you've all seen that, right?)

I know you didn't do the testing for Libra or Earth, so this question goes to Bluezee. If what Dan is saying is true about Basalt+Hell's recoil, then what was keeping Earth and Libra upright?

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

Of course there are but which stamina types can you say do that besides what I just posted here?

But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

Then what the heck do you think he is trying to do?

He made a combo that had an objective to defeat Hell Kerbecs BD145WD.

So now, we can test something other than it.

EDIT: Bluezee beat me

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Sniper:What? Dude, what are you asking?
This is nice. S can indeed deal some damage by wobbling, but it never can actually win against other combos. Maybe this is it's use? A Hell-Killer? I like the "Real Stamina types use S" line. Nice. But it is true. S was always meant to be the basic Stamina tip, but it never could live up to it's billing.

I've always known the reason why S has been so severely outclassed is balance issues, but against something that can scrape as easily as BD145 (even in Boost mode) the wobbling can help force BD145 into the ground I presume?

When I get a Hell wheel I will test with EDS and S for Libra and Earth.

EDIT: Couldn't this also finally give some use to MS? More stamina, but easier to KO.

No, actually it seems as if recoil from Basalt and Hell keep S in check and BD145 doesn't scrape in Boost mode (okay, but so rarely its a decimal :V) But the wobbling severely hinders Hell BD145, on top of the wobbling that occurs at then end of the round anyway. (I know you've all seen that, right?)

I know you didn't do the testing for Libra or Earth, so this question goes to Bluezee. If what Dan is saying is true about Basalt+Hell's recoil, then what was keeping Earth and Libra upright?

Weight distribution. Libra was always known for having amazing weight distribution and in fact, it was so good that it was banned for a while and was seen as a mistake. The way Libra is designed, a simple tap could bring it back upright under the right conditions. On top of the, S has a round area around the tip which allows it to get back up at times. In Earth's case, it doesn't ever have to worry about getting back up because the difference in spin is so large that it is pretty much still upright by the time HK is down. In the video I will post, you will see this effect.

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Sniper:What? Dude, what are you asking?
This is nice. S can indeed deal some damage by wobbling, but it never can actually win against other combos. Maybe this is it's use? A Hell-Killer? I like the "Real Stamina types use S" line. Nice. But it is true. S was always meant to be the basic Stamina tip, but it never could live up to it's billing.

Uh what? Flame Cancer 145S can beat Earth 100WD.....

But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

Of course there are but which stamina types can you say do that besides what I just posted here?

Basalt Bull CH145DS

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Not sure if I'm right here but I think MegaBlader9 was relating to something such as Basalt. With wheels in primary such as Flame, Thermal, etc.

But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

Of course there are but which stamina types can you say do that besides what I just posted here?

Basalt Bull CH145DS

Can you please supply testings?

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But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

Of course there are but which stamina types can you say do that besides what I just posted here?

Basalt Bull CH145DS

You got some results? Also, you do realize that DS stands for Defense Sharp right? You see that key word in there?

But theirs other combos that can beat it.....?

Of course there are but which stamina types can you say do that besides what I just posted here?

Basalt Bull CH145DS

You got some results? Also, you do realize that DS stands for Defense Sharp right? You see that key word in there?

LMBO dude that sooo got past me ill try to do a vid soon

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Follow me on Twitter @MahoutsukaiDomo

Not sure if I'm right here but I think MegaBlader9 was relating to something such as Basalt. With wheels in primary such as Flame, Thermal, etc.

Great, thanks for clearing that up, dude. Yes, I meant as a main-stream combo. I wanted to see if Libra worked on S because of it's impeccable weight distribution, and maybe Basalt. Flame was a thought, but beating a LTSC wasn't what I had in mind. I meant use that people can look at for more general purposes. (As I mentioned, using it with Libra) With the billing part, it never actually became a good part, not even for plastics, as it was mainly associated with Bump King.

Not sure if I'm right here but I think MegaBlader9 was relating to something such as Basalt. With wheels in primary such as Flame, Thermal, etc.

Great, thanks for clearing that up, dude. Yes, I meant as a main-stream combo. I wanted to see if Libra worked on S because of it's impeccable weight distribution, and maybe Basalt. Flame was a thought, but beating a LTSC wasn't what I had in mind. I meant use that people can look at for more general purposes. (As I mentioned, using it with Libra) With the billing part, it never actually became a good part, not even for plastics, as it was mainly associated with Bump King.

Well if you want mainstream you can use Basalt DF145S. Slap on a MF-H and it should be heavy enough to withstand more than enough.

Libra DF145S vs Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
Standard Conditions
Libra DF145S: 3 Wins
Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 7 Wins
2 Draws
Libra DF145S win percentage: 30%

I redid all KOs and Draws, but as you can see I'm getting nowhere near the same results. Even if Libra won the next 10 rounds, it wouldn't show the same disparity your results show. I did a few rounds with EWD too as I prefer to WD; it's much of the same, really.

So now will you please get rid of that combo now? I really don't know why it is even top-tier for stamina. Real stamina types use S.

Obviously, this requires more than one person to test it so I think you're being far too presumptuous in calling for its removal ...

Even 135MS works good against Hell Kerbecs BD145WD

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Bring Back Bluezee!

Libra DF145S vs Hell Kerbecs BD145WD (Boost Mode)
Standard Conditions
Libra DF145S: 3 Wins
Hell Kerbecs BD145WD: 7 Wins
2 Draws
Libra DF145S win percentage: 30%

I redid all KOs and Draws, but as you can see I'm getting nowhere near the same results. Even if Libra won the next 10 rounds, it wouldn't show the same disparity your results show. I did a few rounds with EWD too as I prefer to WD; it's much of the same, really.

no MF-H? i think with a MF-H it will work as it directs more weight to the center of the combo (giving it more balance right?)

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