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SA165 Discussion

Oct. 03, 2012  4:35 PM
 
I'm surprised CS did so well against Flash. Was it relatively stationary, or did it have a tendency to become aggressive?
Oct. 03, 2012  5:07 PM
 
Raigeko13 Wrote:A bit off topic, I apologize, but that's extremely intriguing, how you say Gargole was able to just "brush off" Flash. Could you go a bit more in depth with those tests in the Gargole discussion? I really want another reason to buy Archer Gargole.

Playing around in the Gargoyle discussion is actually the next thing I was going to focus on. I have another Gargoyle combo that I have been working on.
Off Topic Gargoyle stuff: (Click to View)

Raigeko13 Wrote:As for the tests, thanks. Crazy how flipping a Synchrome made such a huge difference on performance. And SA165 was in Attack Mode too...

I am not quite sure what you mean by SA165 being in attack mode. I only did the flip comparisons with SA165(normal) and BD145. With how everything went, I probably should have done Reviser Gargoyle SA165(attack) tests.

Raigeko13 Wrote:Kain, do you happen to have a Zero-G Attack Type Beystadium? I'd love to see Zero-G Attack Mode tested with it on MSF/-H (Synchrome, preferrably Begirados² if you have that, but any will do fine) SA165 (Zero-G Attack Mode) CF/GCF/XF.

I unfortunately do not have a Zero-G attack stadium :-(. I would love to see those tests too. I honestly wonder if GCF/CF's disk would keep SA165(attack) from being able to sway the stadium. Another test I would love to see in the Zero-G stadium is MSF-H-Synchrome SA165(attack)BSF.

Kei Wrote:I'm surprised CS did so well against Flash. Was it relatively stationary, or did it have a tendency to become aggressive?

I was just as suprised as you are. I honestly think it had more to do with Gargoyle. I mean I am not the king with attack types, but it was still strange to me too. It stayed realtively stationary which is why I noted calm next to it. That CS is the newer of my 2 CS, but it has definitely been broken in. It is the yellow one from the Rock Zurafa/Torch Geminos 2 pack.

I have also noticed, just from trying synchrom attack combos, that it is a little harder to see aggression with synchroms. Example, you launch an attack synchrom combo as hard as you can and it doesnt look like its moving all that fast. Point is, because it is such a heavy combo, the aggresiveness could have been harder to see. Hope that made sense, it is kind of hard to explain what I am meaning.
Oct. 21, 2012  7:46 AM
 
I finally got my second Duo, so I was able to put SA165 through its stamina paces. I tested with every stamina tip I have to try and see if there were any standouts. Both my Duos are identical in weight and seem to be identical in performace as well.

The two customs were almost identical:
Duo Hades W145WD
vs.
Duo Hades SA165___
SA165 is always in normal mode.

Duo Hades SA165MB vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

I only did 5 rounds because it was very obvious SA165 would never win. I know this seems like a strange tip to test, but I wanted to make sure I tested everything.

Duo Hades SA165DS vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

Again, I only did 5 tests because SA165 had no hope.

Duo Hades SA165W2D vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

W2D doesn't do it either. Next...

Duo Hades SA165SWD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

Nope, no good.

Duo Hades SA165BWD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

Oh wow, this was laughably one-sided. I'm pretty sad that BWD didn't turn out to be good in the BB-10, I had high hopes for it Unhappy

Duo Hades SA165EDS vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

Yeah, no. Next!

Duo Hades SA165EWD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

This was actally a decent bit closer, but it still lost by enough for me to be confident in only doing 5 rounds.

Duo Hades SA165SD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

Okay, I'm not sure what anyone was going on about when they were saying that SD was the best tip for SA165 stamina-wise, because these tests were horribly one-sided. Like, EWD was doing better than SD by a mile. This is absolutely not a good tip for SA165 in any way.

Duo Hades SA165PD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

This test saddened me since I'm such a big fan of PD. My tests have shown that PD seems to perform best at basically this height, but it just couldn't OS W145WD.

Duo Hades SA165WD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

So this test was surprising, as I figured WD would do at least decently well, but that's absolutely not what I noticed. It wasn't as bad as SD, but it was pretty bad. The only hope now lies in...

Duo Hades SA165D vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 10 (10 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

These tests were much, MUCH closer, close enough for the third round to be basically a tie and enough for me to do more than 5 tests. Despite the custom's decent performance in the third round, however, after that I couldn't replicate those results and SA165 was losing pretty badly.

CONCLUSION
My test results seemed to indicate that D was the best tip for a stamina setup utilizing SA165, but more importantly it showed that SA165 just doesn't seem to have a place in the top-tier of stamina despite its amazing shape. It's unfortunate, but it didn't live up to at least my expectations stamina-wise. That, or W145WD is just so crazy good, which I suppose is possible.
Oct. 21, 2012  2:48 PM
 
"Like, EWD was doing better than SD by a mile. This is absolutely not a good tip for SA165 in any way."

I think you mean WD.
It's sad to see that anticipated SA165 perform like this Unhappy
Care to try in the other mode? Who knows, flukes happen.
Oct. 21, 2012  3:22 PM
 
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe there should be some Defence testing with SA165 in it's other mode with CS.
Oct. 21, 2012  4:15 PM
 
(Oct. 21, 2012  7:46 AM)Ingulit Wrote: Duo Hades SA165WD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

This result is quite odd when you compare them to the SA165WD vs. W145WD tests that I did. I don't have two Duo's, so unfortunately I wasn't able to do the same tests that you did (and I didn't do Phantom SA165WD vs. Phantom W145WD for some reason), but in both instances (Phantom on SA165 and Duo on SA165), SA165WD won pretty convincingly most of the time against W145WD.
Oct. 21, 2012  4:18 PM
 
(Oct. 21, 2012  4:15 PM)Kei Wrote:
(Oct. 21, 2012  7:46 AM)Ingulit Wrote: Duo Hades SA165WD vs. Duo Hades W145WD
Duo Hades W145WD lauched first every round.
Detail Results (Click to View)
SA165: 0
W145: 5 (5 OS)
SA165 Win %: 0%

This result is quite odd when you compare them to the SA165WD vs. W145WD tests that I did. I don't have two Duo's, so unfortunately I wasn't able to do the same tests that you did (and I didn't do Phantom SA165WD vs. Phantom W145WD for some reason), but in both instances (Phantom on SA165 and Duo on SA165), SA165WD won pretty convincingly most of the time against W145WD.

It could be that on the 165 height Duo gets knocked off balance, also did he/she only do 5 test because W145 was winning with a lot of rotations left, or was it close?
Oct. 21, 2012  4:28 PM
 
(Oct. 21, 2012  4:18 PM)R3DX Wrote: It could be that on the 165 height Duo gets knocked off balance, also did he/she only do 5 test because W145 was winning with a lot of rotations left, or was it close?

That could be the case; Duo did indeed not do as well as Phantom did on SA165 in my initial W145WD tests and in my TH170 tests. Although, it did beat Phantom in SA165 vs. SA165 tests. Confused
Oct. 21, 2012  4:57 PM
 
I want to say it was mostly due to it being two Duos being tested and due to the height difference, which combined resulted in a lot of destabilization that might not have been there in a Phantom vs. Duo match-up. Let me try some tests of Duo Hades SA165(D/WD) against Phantom Hades W145WD to see if I get results similar to yours.

One thing I have to note is that even on mint D-series tips Duo Hades SA165___ did not stay perfectly centered while spinning. That is, it looked like it was slightly off-balance, but I triple checked every part of it to make sure nothing was wrong and it still had impressive solo spin times despite the strange wobbling.
Oct. 21, 2012  6:51 PM
 
I know you double checked everything. That strange wobbling is exactly what mine would do when SA165 wasn't clipped all the way in. When it was clipped in well and Duo was good and tight, it didn't move at all on WD and went straight to the center immediately after launch. I was using Aquario. I doubt that would make much of a difference, but I figured I would note that.
Aug. 15, 2013  2:00 AM
 
OK, first of all, I realize this is quite a necro, and I apologize if anyone thinks this was pointless, but...
Given the results in the OP of this thread, doesn't SA165 seem to hold top-tier stamina potential? I mean, taking out W145 18/2 is pretty impressive for a mirror match.

As most of you know, SA165 is used for stamina types frequently in Zero-G stadiums during events, and so far it's beaten any W145 combos I throw at it during a tournament. Along with this, it also has pretty darn impressive LAD, and if this track truly has top-tier level stamina, then combos like Duo Cygnus SA165WD would be a far, far, far superior choice to the traditional W145 stamina types due to its ability to consistently counter opposite-spin opponents.

Quote:Killerken Genbull SA165TB vs. Killerken Genbull W145TB
Beys alternated launching first. Faces, Chrome wheels and Bottoms switched after ten rounds.
SA165: wins, 15/20 (All OS)
W145: wins, 5/20 (1 KO, 4 OS)
Killerken Genbull SA165TB win rate: 75%

SA165 took a slim lead in the first ten, but then it completely dominated after I swapped parts in round 11. After seeing this, I really think SA165 has the makings of a tier-1 stamina track.

So far, from the tests I've seen on this site: 230>160>SA165>W145>TH170

Therefore, I see no reason to exclude this track from the tier list if we're putting W145 and TH170 up there. :\ Am I just crazy, or is there a reason this hasn't been discussed much?
Aug. 20, 2013  6:51 PM
 
I've never been thrilled by SA165's stamina, though you're right in that the test results are pretty good. How often is SA165 used on stamina types in BB-10 tournaments for strictly stamina purposes, though (IE, not just as a Dragooon counter)?
Aug. 20, 2013  7:06 PM
 
(Aug. 20, 2013  6:51 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I've never been thrilled by SA165's stamina, though you're right in that the test results are pretty good. How often is SA165 used on stamina types in BB-10 tournaments for strictly stamina purposes, though (IE, not just as a Dragooon counter)?

Never. Haha, but I dont even think stamina is used as it was initially was intended to be anymore so I guess it should be considered for what I like to call "The New Stamina"...
Aug. 20, 2013  7:12 PM
 
(Aug. 20, 2013  7:06 PM)Yuko Ray14 Wrote: Never.

That's not true. I have used it successfully many times in Standard Format tournaments on Duo.
Aug. 20, 2013  7:19 PM
 
Eh I didnt mean it literally hence the haha after it, but SA165 is used for its great LAD not stamina (based of of what i've heard and seen in tournaments) personally if people truly wanted a stamina type Duo__ W145WD would be fine.
Aug. 20, 2013  7:21 PM
 
Ingulit Wrote:I've never been thrilled by SA165's stamina, though you're right in that the test results are pretty good. How often is SA165 used on stamina types in BB-10 tournaments for strictly stamina purposes, though (IE, not just as a Dragooon counter)?


It's used all the time here... Duo/Genbull SA165 is like the thing to use :\ I went up to VA and used Killerken Genbull SA165WD in a BB-10 format and it went undefeated.
Mar. 26, 2014  12:44 AM
 
Any requests without the use of the phantom pieces because I'm trying to find a good combo with the SA165 but do not have any Phantom pieces any recommendations?
Mar. 26, 2014  12:46 AM
 
(Mar. 26, 2014  12:44 AM)tyler6cool Wrote: Any requests without the use of the phantom pieces because I'm trying to find a good combo with the SA165 but do not have any Phantom pieces any recommendations?

You can post your parts in the build be a combo thread and we'll see about what combos you can make =D
Dec. 17, 2016  4:00 AM
 
I do think SA165 is much better than BD145 as BD145 scrapes and needs a tall bottom like CS or the fragile EDS so SA165 might be much better than both AD145 or BD145. Not much testing is done tho
Dec. 17, 2016  4:04 AM
 
look at the tier list both sa165 and bd145 have their uses
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