World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Wiki

Physics

Poll: 42?

Yes
82.76%
72
No
17.24%
15
Total: 100% 87 vote(s)
  • You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
  • * You voted for this item.
  • Show Results
Jan. 12, 2010  10:34 PM
 
Quote:EMBRACING THE SHAPE AND AXIS
Or why tips move differently.

To better illustrate the following points, we will only consider two types of tips : round ones, and flat ones. The Beyblades are launched without an angle, to make matters simple.

If both are spun on the same flat surface, such as any table, they will already move differently. The flat tip will bring the Beyblade farther and more quickly because it has more surface of contact with the surface than a ball tip, unless the latter is wide. Because there is more friction between the flat tip and the floor and that there is also a rotation involved, the spinning top’s axis is destabilized slightly, which causes it to move more. However, beyblading is not officially done in flat areas : the stadiums have certain inclinations that flatten in the centre. It is exactly those inclinations, as small as they could be, that make all the difference in the movements the Beyblades will make.

Round Bottoms have a lot of stability : they are designed to stay upright even if the Beyblade’s axis is not perpendicular to the stadium floor. Therefore, they simply slide down towards the centre of the dish and remain there, stable. For flat tips though, the phenomenon is completely different : it is flat at a 90 degrees angle, and consequently cannot remain calmly standing on an inclined surface. Since it has just been launched however, the Beyblade has enough velocity to spin and fight to stay slightly balanced. It is that fight for control that creates the circular patterns we witness when attack Beyblades with flat tips are used. Since the spinning top is always rotating only on the circumference of the tip (which is also why those flat tips are round and not rectangular, for instance) because it wants to keep its axis parallel with gravity and its centre of gravity always right above its tip until precession starts, it begins a motion that follows the curves of the stadium floor. When too much friction has acted on the top and that it does not have enough energy to keep circulating around, it slowly moves towards the centre of the stadium, and spins there for a short time because of the flatter area, before ceasing to rotate on itself.

If tips are regular, like the Wide Ball Bottom, they move regularly on surfaces. However, the more irregular tips are, the wider their range of movement patterns will be because they will have to adapt a lot more to all the surfaces and their shape.

With help from asafarakaratara again. Everything should be right.


Still a so-so diagram :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/K...sMove1.jpg



Benkei, I will see what I can do.
Jan. 12, 2010  10:46 PM
 
kai-v, just from looking at that diagram i have no idea what it means
Jan. 12, 2010  11:21 PM
 
Hah, it is supposed to illustrate the fact that the flat tip rolls on its circumference ... I realize my "stadium floor" is not as good as I would have imagined either.
Jan. 12, 2010  11:42 PM
 
I understand some of this. Just barely, but i think i get the concept. Becouse the axis is not perfect with the stadium floor and the bottom is flat and the stadium floor has that incline, the beyblade spins in a circle for a period of time before it runs out of energy, spins normally for a matter of seconds, and then "dies" off.

That's what i got out of this. I'm pretty proud about that!

That diagram almost threw me off, though. Well written, but the diagram is confusing to me.

Thats for another great article! Are these being added to Beywiki, though?
Jan. 13, 2010  9:56 AM
 
That's a brilliant article Kai-V. Thank you so much for the work you are doing with this. Though I realise these articles only cater to a small demographic I think that it's enough to make it useful.
Jan. 23, 2010  9:46 PM
 
A better diagram for the previous article, even if it still looks empty and dull :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/K...psMove.jpg


The best article yet according to asafarakaratara :

Quote:CONFLICT WITH THE SURFACES
Or why tips with different materials have other behaviours.

Now that the movement of each Beyblade caused by the different tips has been studied, it becomes apropos to wonder about the effects other materials will make. Most of the tips are made of the same plastic, therefore the only element that can really change the movement pattern of the spinning top is the shape of the tip. However, if different materials are used, such as certain types of metal and rubber, considerable changes can be observed and the whole game is different because of them.

Since the multiple movements in general have been seen, we will neglect the difference of pattern caused by the shape of the tip to concentrate only on the material used. For this purpose, a sharp, metallic tip, a regular plastic one, and a last rubber flat tip will serve as examples. Most people have probably witnessed the way metal tips act compared to plastic ones, and rubber tips versus regular ones: the first kind is supposed to spin for a longer time, and rubber usually makes a top move around much faster than plastic does.

The reason behind these variations in behaviour is simply friction. In the case of metal, the coefficient of friction with the stadium floor, a surface which is common for all of the tips, is quite inferior to that of plastic against plastic. When there is less friction, any material has a tendency to “slip” more if it is made to move in a certain direction. On the contrary, rubber has a higher coefficient of friction with the plastic of the stadium. This creates a totally different change of behaviour when moved from one point to another on the surface: instead of slipping more or less like with metal and plastic, rubber really “grips” more into the stadium floor, allowing the Beyblade ampler movements and at a much faster speed. Simply imagine this situation: you are lying on a smooth surface and wish to move forward more and more; if the floor has a certain inclination, you will probably be pulled towards the bottom at a certain slow speed, however you will use your arms and hands to get a good grip and crawl faster to your destination. Rubber acts in a similar way: because there is a very high coefficient of friction, it will move more.

Normally, people believe that friction is inclined to make an object harder to slide along a surface the higher the coefficient is. That can be true if a very simple translation of a cube is applied along another flat surface that creates high friction. However, if you think outside the basic translation, friction is actually what makes most things move. Cars, for instance, rely almost entirely on friction to transport forward or backward. Because there is a high coefficient here as well, the wheel is able to rotate from a starting point on the ground. That is why wheels are made of rubber, and roads of any rough substance too: if the two were smoother, wheels would slip and their overall distance reached would be worse than what a modern car can achieve. When there is snow on the ground, there is a lot less friction because snow is a lot smoother.

Therefore, if a displacement more complex than a simple 2D translation is applied to an object, friction will act to make it move forward. Wheels roll on their circumference because of friction, so they reach a certain point B easily. In the case of spinning tops, the fact that they spin on themselves (in other words, most likely parallel to the ground, on the ground so there is more friction), slide up and down the angles of the stadium and sometimes get pushed from side to side, many movements are made with the top that are superior to a translation, therefore rubber has a great effect on a Beyblade’s performance.

Of course, a downside to moving faster along a path with rubber is that the friction does reduce its stamina.

I will probably make an animation with cylinders to accompany the explanations.



firelord767 Wrote:Are these being added to Beywiki, though?
They should be added soon.
Jan. 23, 2010  9:56 PM
 
Thank you very much. I look forward to these every time you write these articles. I agree with asafarakaratara, this is your best one so far.
Jan. 26, 2010  11:27 PM
 
Thanks for another great article, Kai-V and arafaraskara! I never knew that about Metal Tips. Now i wnat a Metal Ball bottom really bad!
Feb. 09, 2010  5:10 AM
 
reading all this has made me think about piim not sure why though oh i know it keeps going on and on so shut up and eat your meat before your pudding
Feb. 09, 2010  8:46 PM
 
(Feb. 09, 2010  5:10 AM)jwb97a Wrote: reading all this has made me think about piim not sure why though oh i know it keeps going on and on so shut up and eat your meat before your pudding

i think the saying is "how can you have and pudding if you dont eat you meat"
Feb. 09, 2010  11:12 PM
 
Ah, the good 'ol Pink Floyd.

I'll have to reread this with CS coming out.

EDIT: Very helpful Grin
I've got a few ideas about CS now. Might be a little like SF.
May. 29, 2010  5:37 PM
 
This is so cool! I really love the physics part of beyblades. I am making a beyblade (modifying attack rings and bases and stuff from other beyblades and re-shaping them (I know it's not legal to use in competiton)) and I'd really love to know about this stuff as it will help me in the making of my beyblade! Will you perhaps, if you have the time, reply to some questions I may ask (I mean PM) on different ways beyblades move?
May. 29, 2010  6:05 PM
 
(May. 29, 2010  5:37 PM)Ranul96 Wrote: This is so cool! I really love the physics part of beyblades. I am making a beyblade (modifying attack rings and bases and stuff from other beyblades and re-shaping them (I know it's not legal to use in competiton)) and I'd really love to know about this stuff as it will help me in the making of my beyblade! Will you perhaps, if you have the time, reply to some questions I may ask (I mean PM) on different ways beyblades move?
Hm, I can try if I know what you are asking about. There are some things that still escape my knowledge.
May. 30, 2010  2:04 AM
 
Im guessing he's talking about attack patterns? Like how come an RF produces more speed then a WB does.
Well, I think.
May. 30, 2010  2:23 AM
 
(May. 30, 2010  2:04 AM)Pockyx3 Wrote: Im guessing he's talking about attack patterns? Like how come an RF produces more speed then a WB does.
Well, I think.
He sent me a private message, but I explained that in my previous articles anyway.
May. 30, 2010  2:48 AM
 
CS preforms a lot like a mixture of grip attackers base and storm grip base, as a comparison.
May. 30, 2010  6:10 AM
 
This thread should probably get "stickied". It contains a plethora of useful information.
May. 30, 2010  7:28 AM
 
(May. 30, 2010  2:04 AM)Pockyx3 Wrote: Im guessing he's talking about attack patterns? Like how come an RF produces more speed then a WB does.
Well, I think.

That's partially correct actually. In the attack ring, if the blades are more prominent it will give a better attack right? Should stamina types always have to be less prominent and more circular in shape?
Jun. 01, 2010  12:24 PM
 
true, although more prominence also leads to high recoil (i.e, slash riger, galzzly). And yes, that is how endurance types should be.
Sep. 30, 2010  3:49 PM
 
im a freshman and i completely understand this... i was wondering what physics play in beyblade so im really happy you wrote this thread.. I was wondering if you could answer this question. Beyblades that spin faster create a more downward force right? So the faster it goes the more it defies gravity and the longer it spins? This is what you want to do with a stamina type correct?
Oct. 01, 2010  2:49 PM
 
No, the force should stay the same no matter how fast it spins, in the vertical direction. How does a force pushing downward equate to defying gravity? The faster it goes, the longer it spins; that in itself should be self evident. With stamina types you wish to conserve speed. This is done through minimising friction with the stadium, and lowering downward force through lightweight parts. Weight distribution should also be even and spread on the circumference to increase the flywheel effect, or torque.

This is generally off the top of my head, though I do do physics.
Oct. 01, 2010  2:57 PM
 
I do get this, but if you try to use lightweight parts, then why is Libra so effective ? Is it because it is so circular and the weight is really evenly distributed ?
Oct. 01, 2010  3:23 PM
 
I think so, and the "flywheel effect".
Oct. 01, 2010  7:01 PM
 
Hi everyone!

I am currently working on a more advanced model of the physics of Beyblade. Because of the numerous parametres it will probably take several months to complete. Moreover, I'm writing it in French, so it will take a while to translate if I ever want ot post it here.

However, I'm lacking some numerical data about stadiums (since I don't have any)

Could someone please give me the exact dimensions of either the Takara-Tomy Attack stadium, or the balance stadium?

By dimensions I mean radius, depth, and the inclination of the stadium floor at the edge...

Actually, the ideal solution would be a scaled picture of the diametrical section of the stadium, because this way, I'll know the exact curve of the stadium. Otherwise I'll have to make an approximation, and assume the stadium section is a parabola.

Thanks in advance
Feb. 08, 2011  2:26 AM
 
NOTE: Alright, I was wanting to make this a thread, but Kai-V wanted me to put this here and then see how it turned out before we make it "thread-worthy"

Alright guys, I've been hearing arguments go every direction for every bey piece and I'd like to break everything down to absolute facts. The goal is to compile everything we know about beyblade, old, new, physics, technique, and otherwise that way we have a place to point new people or all questions.
This will be quite barren for awhile until you guys start filling it up, but I will have the majority of the outline laid out to direct ourselves.

==========================================
In order for material to be added you must post your material here, and at least 3 people must agree that it is a truth. Agreement will be done by the voters "quoting" the topic they are voting for and "agreeing" or "disagreeing". There are only some exceptions to this rule because they are undisputed in the community
==========================================

Every contribution must have citation in form of video, website, or otherwise.

==========================================

TOPICS

1.Foundational Physics:
Spoiler (Click to View)
2.Launcher Techniques:
Spoiler (Click to View)
3. Collective Weight Distribution:
Spoiler (Click to View)
4. Clear Wheel Attributes:
Spoiler (Click to View)
5. Metal Weight Attributes:
Spoiler (Click to View)
6. Track Attributes:
Spoiler (Click to View)
7. Tip Attributes:
Spoiler (Click to View)
And I apologize that I have nothing in there yet, it took awhile to set it up nice and neatly and I don't have time tonight.

Anyway, have fun adding material!
Prev
Page 4
Next