World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Other Closed Threads

Phantom B:D Re-testing

Poll: Is B:D competitive?

Yes.
92.86%
13
No.
7.14%
1
Total: 100% 14 vote(s)
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Aug. 08, 2012  12:55 PM
 
Alot of people seem to think B:D is useless... I think it's competitive.

Phantom shot first.

VS Attack
Spoiler (Click to View)
VS Stamina
Spoiler (Click to View)
VS Defence
Spoiler (Click to View)

I am doing tests against Spin stealers atm.

Please, post what needs to be tested, if someone could do tests against Reviser Reviser that would be great.
Aug. 08, 2012  1:03 PM
 
hey enzo theres no score of wins and loses for Phantom VS Death
Aug. 08, 2012  1:09 PM
 
(Aug. 08, 2012  1:03 PM)JesseObre Wrote: hey enzo theres no score of wins and loses for Phantom VS Death

Oops. Added now.

Also added MSF Saramander Saramander tests. They don't seem to be showing up yet though. :\
Aug. 08, 2012  2:08 PM
 
Good thing im not the only one who likes bd. dragoooon dragoooon bd has been workin interesting for me. I'll post test later.
Aug. 08, 2012  2:23 PM
 
Enzoxs- I saw this coming, haha!
Nice thing you are now initiating the retesting of this part. Smile

Those are nice tests! Unless B: D is KOed, there's nothing that can beat it.
So it can seemingly outlast various Stamina and Defense combos.
However, seeing B: D's exceptional weakness to Attackers; or rather, aggression - Anti-Attack combos are also a major threat. We can not forget Basalt, as that is one thing that causes problems for B: D. An aggressively launched Basalt Defense combo does cause some problems to certain B: D combos...

Aug. 08, 2012  2:53 PM
 
What spin stealers should I test against?
Aug. 08, 2012  3:24 PM
 
(Aug. 08, 2012  2:53 PM)Enzoxs Wrote: What spin stealers should I test against?

Meteo CH120EWD and LDrago Destroy/Guardian BD145RDF can u test?
I
Aug. 08, 2012  3:50 PM
 
This isn't a bad idea to post about, though I'd change the title to B:D retesting or something like that.

So, what actually works on B:D? One cannot deny its defense is pitiful, and there aren't many ways to fix that.

If you're going to use B:D in a pure stamina setup, Duo would be better than Phantom due to its lack of recoil (something B:D cannot handle).

Spin stealers are an interesting route, and MLD B:D places every so often. I too tried Dragooon on B:D, though even with Dragooon's massive weight it was still too easy to KO (thankfully, haha!).

As Ga mentioned in his Fusion thread, Fusion is a neat match for B:D. In my experience with the combo Fusion's rubber seems to help absorb blows a little bit, but unfortunately Fusion is so wide that it falls over at low spin rates.

It should be mentioned another 1000 times that a slight breeze will KO anything on B:D. While it's a great part if that somehow doesn't happen, thus far I haven't seen any B:D custom that can withstand even gentle blows.

I've got a 7 minute mold and I've been testing with it like crazy, and if I find anything else I'll post about it.
Aug. 08, 2012  4:12 PM
 
(Aug. 08, 2012  3:50 PM)Ingulit Wrote: This isn't a bad idea to post about, though I'd change the title to BGrin retesting or something like that.

So, what actually works on BGrin? One cannot deny its defense is pitiful, and there aren't many ways to fix that.

If you're going to use BGrin in a pure stamina setup, Duo would be better than Phantom due to its lack of recoil (something BGrin cannot handle).

Spin stealers are an interesting route, and MLD BGrin places every so often. I too tried Dragooon on BGrin, though even with Dragooon's massive weight it was still too easy to KO (thankfully, haha!).

As Ga mentioned in his Fusion thread, Fusion is a neat match for BGrin. In my experience with the combo Fusion's rubber seems to help absorb blows a little bit, but unfortunately Fusion is so wide that it falls over at low spin rates.

It should be mentioned another 1000 times that a slight breeze will KO anything on BGrin. While it's a great part if that somehow doesn't happen, thus far I haven't seen any BGrin custom that can withstand even gentle blows.

I've got a 7 minute mold and I've been testing with it like crazy, and if I find anything else I'll post about it.

Ah yes, the Defense is a major problem. Unfortunately, it is also irreparable.
And yes I agree on the fact that Duo is MUCH better than a Phantom while using B: D, as it would provide it with much-needed Defense capabilities (even though it wouldn't be enough).
Weak launch probably plays a key role behind the victory of B: D based spin-stealing combos such as MLD B: D. The combo had once been deemed horrible; however it still saw much success in tournaments; much to the surprise of the testers.
However, the "tourney situation is different from a testing environment" might be the argument presented by the testers in this case.
I actually strongly believe in the "weak launch + lots of rubber on Meteo = respectable Defense" thingy... Tongue_out
Fusion is one interesting part to be honest. While it does "absorb" hits very well, it also brings with it comparatively poor Stamina (IMO) and a bit of recoil (which as you said, cannot be handled by B: D). If someone was inclined to use Fusion on B: D, I'd rather suggest them to put up Revizer Revizer on it; as it'd at least be better than a Fusion.

Explanation (Click to View)


To be honest, there's a very little scope for experimenting on this bottom; as half of the efforts shall go into increasing its Defense. However, it is worth the try because if a B: D can be prevented from being KOed, it can rise up to become the best Stamina bottom; and probably rule the meta for a short while just as the BC did...
Its a shame that I do not own one; as I actually have all the time in the world to keep on experimenting with such parts...
Aug. 08, 2012  4:47 PM
 
Great! I really liked Phantom on BGrin but I wasn't able to test it a lot because I didn't have a stadium.

But, the first thing I tried it against was ashton's Duo 230 MB(using Orion CW) and it didn't do too well. However, I guess CWs do make a difference indeed so I'll test it against some combos this weekend(probably).

I'll also try it out on Gravity because of the weak launching advantage it offers against either spin. That might help to increase BGrin's horrible defense.
Aug. 08, 2012  4:50 PM
 
Hm, Gravity's dual spin might work out in favour of B: D here! Grin
However, don't you think that it is too light in comparison to the 4D wheels? And that the low weight shall actually not make much of a difference in keeping B: D inside the stadium?
Aug. 08, 2012  5:07 PM
 
I've been through nearly all my MW's doing informal tests. Scythe did OK against Flash, but then couldn't OS much. Phantom still seems to do better overall.

(Aug. 08, 2012  4:50 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Hm, Gravity's dual spin might work out in favour of B: D here! Grin
However, don't you think that it is too light in comparison to the 4D wheels? And that the low weight shall actually not make much of a difference in keeping B: D inside the stadium?

I tried that before. The lack of weight makes it one of the easiest Beys to KO. I reckon Dragooon Dragooon will be good.
Aug. 08, 2012  5:13 PM
 
Ah yes, as I thought... The lack of weight would affect it quite badly... Unhappy
How about trying Duo and Fusion (and even Revizer) keeping in mind Ingulit's (and my Tongue_out) suggestions?
Aug. 08, 2012  5:24 PM
 
(Aug. 08, 2012  5:13 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Ah yes, as I thought... The lack of weight would affect it quite badly... Unhappy
How about trying Duo and Fusion (and even Revizer) keeping in mind Ingulit's (and my Tongue_out) suggestions?

I only have one Revizer Unhappy It was really easy to KO un-Synchromed, and couldn't OS Duo. I don't have Fusion either.

Duo B: D can be KO'ed, but it's probably one of the best so far against Flash. Anyway, what shall I try (Stamina wise) against Duo B: D? I tried against Duo 230MB, to no avail.
Aug. 08, 2012  11:10 PM
 
(Aug. 08, 2012  5:24 PM)Enzoxs Wrote: Duo B: D can be KO'ed, but it's probably one of the best so far against Flash.
What?

The main thing you should be testing against, stamina, you have provided no worthwhile tests for. B: D's 170-height has a massive height matchup advantage against 230, even with MB - and that combo is often classified as balance, not stamina (though I'm willing to let that go because it's a very stamina-inclined combo still); attack tests are as expected albeit on the low side, and a stamina setup outspinning defense tells us absolutely nothing new. Spin Stealing tests? Phantom B: D is already known to hassle spin stealers.

So, so far, none of this is useful, and you could and should have used the B: D testing thread for this anyway - creating a topic that we already have is against the rules, and in this case also comes accross as extremely self-important.

Anyway, part of the issue with B: D is that there's a huge amount of inconsistency with it. Some probably are competitive, but most are not.

Secondly, bearings are very, very rarely worthwhile in same spin because their stamina is easily depleted on contact due to the extremely low inertia bearings provide from their low friction, even when spinning fast, i.e. their spin is easily depleted on contact. This, combined with numerous better options, is why most if not all Bearing Drives aren't worth using. This is very, very evident in plastics, for what it's worth, and the same thing seems to happen with B: D in MFB. This also means that a recoily wheel like phantom is likely a poor choice - especially as it means it's not uncommon for other STAMINA combinations to KO it, which I'm surprised you couldn't (or simply didn't) get Duo 230MB to do, though I'll mess around with it later. Also worth mentioning, if you'd seen some of the videos Uwik showed me about the way Duo 230 MB combos move in their meta, you'd understand that this just would not cut it there.

We've already discussed B: D, and while some are definitely competitive, as a whole there are much better, more worthwhile setups - especially seeing as SA165 was just released, which I fully expect to blow this away.