It's really only for there height, you don't want the opinion being it's good on everything, when it's not.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Would "GREAT" be given to all top-tier parts?

Because, in that case, D125, T125, H145, and GB145 should all be labeled as "GREAT." They are all pretty excellent Attack Tracks (and, again, they are currently top-tier, so...).

That is basically what I was looking for, yes.

Why is Saramanda BAD? I mean, if it is BAD, it wouldn't ever be on any competitive list. It's supposed to get OK or GOOD if you prefer.

I think you forget how good Gryph was during Zero-G's early parts, and even today, giving it OK is just underappreciating. I mean, Gryph is a mainstay for attack, especially in combinations that don't synchrom with themselves.

That's just my opinions, constructive criticisms only please. Anyway, I agree with Angry Face's idea.

Why is Saramanda BAD? I mean, if it is BAD, it wouldn't ever be on any competitive list. It's supposed to get OK or GOOD if you prefer.

I think you forget how good Gryph was during Zero-G's early parts, and even today, giving it OK is just underappreciating. I mean, Gryph is a mainstay for attack, especially in combinations that don't synchrom with themselves.

That's just my opinions, constructive criticisms only please. Anyway, I agree with Angry Face's idea.

I also wonder why Saramanda is bad, but I think it's because Balro and Girago(I think) carps all over Saramanda in every way, but I think Saramanda is at still least a decent alternative and a cheaper one at that, otherwise why would Death and Basalt be there?

But if they say Saramanda isn't good then it probably isn't that great.

Eh, I personally would say Salamander would be "OK" since it can be a pretty decent alternative wheel.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Eh, I personally would say Salamander would be "OK" since it can be a pretty decent alternative wheel.

I would say it's the Balro or Girago alternative since the set it comes in is more expensive.

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My Cho-Z Reaper Deathscyther .12.Cr concept render, click below to see!

Spoiler (Click to View)

No I don't plan on doing more yet.

I should probably go back to making fan custom Zero G beyblade concepts again

Eh, I personally would say Salamander would be "OK" since it can be a pretty decent alternative wheel.

I would say it's the Balro or Girago alternative since the set it comes in is more expensive.

It's a ok "all-around" substitute part, really- but it's not the best Attack part.

Plus, Girago was released by Hasbro in a starter as Thief Zirago, so it can be obtained quite easily.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Eh, I personally would say Salamander would be "OK" since it can be a pretty decent alternative wheel.

I would say it's the Balro or Girago alternative since the set it comes in is more expensive.

It's a ok "all-around" substitute part, really- but it's not the best Attack part.

Plus, Girago was released by Hasbro in a starter as Thief Zirago, so it can be obtained quite easily.

Reason I listed Girago was because I heard it was good for all types, perhaps I was mixed with Balro.

I think Saramanda is just a Balro alternative but not a BAD wheel.

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My Cho-Z Reaper Deathscyther .12.Cr concept render, click below to see!

Spoiler (Click to View)

No I don't plan on doing more yet.

I should probably go back to making fan custom Zero G beyblade concepts again

Girago has uses in all types, less so in others, but still uses. Balro mainly only has uses in attack, and possibly as a spin-equalizaer, as I've seen before.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Girago deserves a GREAT for it's heavy weight and low rotational recoil. It's useful in anything from Dragooon BD145RDF to something like Gryph Girago S130RF (personal combo, any input is fine).

Balro is mainly an attack chrome wheel, but yes, it works nicely synchromed with Gryph or with itself. Never saw it in action on spin equalizers though, other than that it deserves GREAT.

I still do not think Saramanda deserves that BAD score though. It's pretty darn heavy (fyi all of my Saramandas weigh around the 31 gram mark (30.60-31.20) and combined with it's contact points, Saramanda is an incredible anti-attack wheel. Being released in EVERY zero-g random booster (1 has Samurai Saramanda E230ES etc etc, 2 has Guardian Saramanda W145Q etc etc, and 3 has Thief Saramanda F230SF), a booster release (Shinobi Saramanda SW145SD) and in the Attack and Balance Synchrom DX Set, it is certainly affordable. Giving it BAD? Nah, not me tbh.

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Just a couple of more ratings on Zero-G Attack-based Chrome Wheels, because of this thread's inactivity:

Wyvang (Click to View)

Chrome Wheel: Wyvang - GREAT

Has a wide variety of competitive use, whether it's for Dragoon-based Attack or Sway Aattack on setups like Wyvang Dragoon SA165R2F, Wyvang Dragoon SA165GCF, it has some use on the less known and recognized Attack setup, Wyvang Gryph S130RF, or for Balance purposes on setups like MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF or
MSF-H Girago Wyvang BD145RSF. In Limited Format, it also has use on setups like MSF-H Gladiator Wyvang (Crystal Mode Up) R145RF and MSF-H Samurai Wyvang (Crystal Mode Up) H145RSF

I liked Angry Face's idea. Since different parts are better in different formats, I feel it is necessary to display it.

Anyways, as far as GB145, I believe it deserves a GREAT. GB145 is awesome in terms of adding smash attack to attack type beys. And I even like using it for my Libra in Limited. I don't think it should be considered OK, let alone BAD.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Just wondering, is the LED sight any good? Like, does it help at all? Because I have a hard time aiming...

Not really. Use it to blind your opponent, like Kei does.

They are, but it was amusing seeing all those kids talk about their fat heads.

Hey all. Just a little mini rant. Hasbro really messed up with certain Beyblades. For example, Hasbro's Fang wheel is terrible, while Tomy's version is freaking awesome. Same with That one bey with the balls in the 4D Fusion Wheel.

I'm just bored of christmas. It's a commercial crazy tradition.

You're saying that now, you might have something different to say tomorrow morning.

I think that Burn should have an Ok or Great sign, because of The Limited Format
Since there are no official lists yet! I am representing this :

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For the Limited format :

Stamina

Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) B : D
Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) 85 (WD/EWD)
Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) (TH170/230) (D/SD)

Balance

Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) (85/90) MF

I think that Burn should have an Ok or Great sign, because of The Limited Format
Since there are no official lists yet! I am representing this :

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For the Limited format :

Stamina

Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) B : D
Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) 85 (WD/EWD)
Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) (TH170/230) (D/SD)

Balance

Burn (Cygnus/Cancer/Hades) (85/90) MF

I would go with OK for burn. While I would be willing to play around with it, I don't think I would ever use it. There are just better options, like earth or scythe. But it's still good at what it does.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Just wondering, is the LED sight any good? Like, does it help at all? Because I have a hard time aiming...

Not really. Use it to blind your opponent, like Kei does.

They are, but it was amusing seeing all those kids talk about their fat heads.

Hey all. Just a little mini rant. Hasbro really messed up with certain Beyblades. For example, Hasbro's Fang wheel is terrible, while Tomy's version is freaking awesome. Same with That one bey with the balls in the 4D Fusion Wheel.

I'm just bored of christmas. It's a commercial crazy tradition.

You're saying that now, you might have something different to say tomorrow morning.

I think we're basing what's BAD, OK and GREAT off of what Beyblade parts and competitive setups you can making have been released and recognized. That in mind, I also believe we're basing what's GREAT, OK and what aren't off of what parts and setups are the Standard Format Competitive Customs list. Limited's soon-to-be ones shouldn't count, if this were the confirmed case, too.

Any confirmation, though, @[Kai-V] ? That's what it seems, seeing that parts like Burn, which are useful in Limited are considered BAD and said to be outclassed.

I did think it was better to base these current banners on whether parts are good in general, so not based on the Limited Format. I will see what we could do to acknowledge Limited-format performance, but for the moment we have to think on the long term : in several years, people will want to know what to buy overall in the series, because that will stay true to everyone even if for some reason the World Beyblade Organization vanishes and that there is no trace of the Limited format we created anymore.

I did think it was better to base these current banners on whether parts are good in general, so not based on the Limited Format. I will see what we could do to acknowledge Limited-format performance, but for the moment we have to think on the long term : in several years, people will want to know what to buy overall in the series, because that will stay true to everyone even if for some reason the World Beyblade Organization vanishes and that there is no trace of the Limited format we created anymore.

Nooo! Don't even speak like that D:

The WBO is immortal! It will outlive everything else! It will survive until the last man on Earth! Heresy I say! Shame on you for thinking such a ridiculous thing!

But anyways, I don't know what the whole banner thing is suppose to be like, but why not both?

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Just wondering, is the LED sight any good? Like, does it help at all? Because I have a hard time aiming...

Not really. Use it to blind your opponent, like Kei does.

They are, but it was amusing seeing all those kids talk about their fat heads.

Hey all. Just a little mini rant. Hasbro really messed up with certain Beyblades. For example, Hasbro's Fang wheel is terrible, while Tomy's version is freaking awesome. Same with That one bey with the balls in the 4D Fusion Wheel.

I'm just bored of christmas. It's a commercial crazy tradition.

You're saying that now, you might have something different to say tomorrow morning.

Our intention is definitely to live, but who knows : we could get hacked one day, nobody knows how to just bring the site back, most old Members are not there anymore, so a new community gets created who has lost some things, like perhaps the Limited format. That is not necessarily a good example actually because then Beywiki would be lost as well anyway, hah ...

All very hypothetical things, but the fact remains that it would be odd to add both "BAD" and "OK" banners to parts, hah.

Our intention is definitely to live, but who knows : we could get hacked one day, nobody knows how to just bring the site back, most old Members are not there anymore, so a new community gets created who has lost some things, like perhaps the Limited format. That is not necessarily a good example actually because then Beywiki would be lost as well anyway, hah ...

I know this is a bit off topic- but a mod or someone may want to save "important" OP's, info, or something. Things like Tier Lists, Wiki Articles, maybe ranks, etc. By save, I mean, maybe write up/copy and paste info and just save it in Word or something.

I never really thought about something like that until now, though. We should create some sort of "zombie apocalypse plan", haha.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Our intention is definitely to live, but who knows : we could get hacked one day, nobody knows how to just bring the site back, most old Members are not there anymore, so a new community gets created who has lost some things, like perhaps the Limited format. That is not necessarily a good example actually because then Beywiki would be lost as well anyway, hah ...

I know this is a bit off topic- but a mod or someone may want to save "important" OP's, info, or something. Things like Tier Lists, Wiki Articles, maybe ranks, etc. By save, I mean, maybe write up/copy and paste info and just save it in Word or something.

I never really thought about something like that until now, though. We should create some sort of "zombie apocalypse plan", haha.

I support this 100%. In fact, I am pretty sure it is possible to back-up an entire website.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Just wondering, is the LED sight any good? Like, does it help at all? Because I have a hard time aiming...

Not really. Use it to blind your opponent, like Kei does.

They are, but it was amusing seeing all those kids talk about their fat heads.

Hey all. Just a little mini rant. Hasbro really messed up with certain Beyblades. For example, Hasbro's Fang wheel is terrible, while Tomy's version is freaking awesome. Same with That one bey with the balls in the 4D Fusion Wheel.

I'm just bored of christmas. It's a commercial crazy tradition.

You're saying that now, you might have something different to say tomorrow morning.

We do have backups of this site, but the sheer size and compressed format of them would personally make it difficult to just go search for a specific Beywiki article inside it ...

We do have backups of this site, but the sheer size and compressed format of them would personally make it difficult to just go search for a specific Beywiki article inside it ...

Just restore the entire thing? Then we still have the WBO!

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Just wondering, is the LED sight any good? Like, does it help at all? Because I have a hard time aiming...

Not really. Use it to blind your opponent, like Kei does.

They are, but it was amusing seeing all those kids talk about their fat heads.

Hey all. Just a little mini rant. Hasbro really messed up with certain Beyblades. For example, Hasbro's Fang wheel is terrible, while Tomy's version is freaking awesome. Same with That one bey with the balls in the 4D Fusion Wheel.

I'm just bored of christmas. It's a commercial crazy tradition.

You're saying that now, you might have something different to say tomorrow morning.

Just a few thoughts and opinions about Beywiki having used it extensively these past few weeks, which hopefully might be constructive and used as a starting point for discussion.


From an Outsider's View

I think the very existence of this thread highlights an almost age old dilemma for Beywiki (and potentially, WBO as a whole) in that it needs to be 'kid-friendly' but also sufficiently in-depth and not devalue many of the cool discoveries the community here makes. I'm not saying that either one has to be compromised, but I think it's really important to strike a fine balance.

This is all written with the caveat that I am now someone who essentially has no knowledge about many of the later 4D / Zero-G releases, but is keen to learn more. Obviously, I am now potentially a lot older than your demographic!

I've found the Beywiki to be a pretty good resource as it stands, but also pretty maddening at times as well.


Beywiki Format

I think the little summary banners are great because you can quickly tell what is useful and what isn't. I raise the issue of these banners here because to me it seems like these banners are a first foray into making the whole of Beywiki more graphic, legible and concise - at the moment, a lot of Beywiki isn't. From when I wrote a few of the early MFB articles I knew the focus was on the competitive feasibility of parts, which, for one reason or another, was invariably translated into quite heavy text pieces, which were honestly worded in bizarre and awkward ways. I think this is now inappropriate:

1. The internet is now much more visual, dynamic and interactive: it seems to me that content shouldn't be so text heavy, regardless of who it is for.
   
2. More importantly it has always seemed awkward to me to describe Beyblade, from battles, to parts, using so much text. I will always remember how oddly difficult it was to describe UW145, when a few diagrams / photographs would have done much better. Almost anyone can make a .gif or .webm now to show how you flip something like BD145 around and use in conjunction with Hell.
   

More recently, I was frustrated by the fact that sometimes I'd just wanted to quickly find out what a part looked like, for a rough idea of what it could do, and found that I would have to scroll all the way to the bottom and look through small thumbnails to find some sort of pictorial information about a Track or a Bottom. We have a myriad of members who have all of these parts - I really don't think it would take such a huge effort to take a few snaps and have them besides each section just to make the descriptions that much more informative.

This is honestly one of the things that Beyblade Wikia is doing much better than Beywiki at the moment:

[Image: gOyxEoLb.png] [Image: vZNJjg9b.png]

(I chose Phantom Orion B:D as a particular example because of how excited I was to read about B:D - one of the most eagerly anticipated parts in MFB perhaps deserves something more?)


Content

I think Beywiki has started to assume that the reader has much more prior knowledge than they might actually have. It seems obvious to me now (and not before when I myself was writing articles), that you would only read a particular Beywiki article if you didn't know much about the Beyblade at all. A reader wants to quickly see what the part looks like, what colour it is, what it does best and in what context, and whether they should buy it.

Orojya Wyvang 145EDS

Chrome Wheel 1: Wyvang
Weight: 31.92 grams
Almost completely circular, Wyvang's shape is only disturbed by curved lines coming from the center and, like claws, going down toward the bottom of the Chrome Wheel. At the top is a smooth gathering of long feathers, while the bottom shows a dragon head from the side, which is where a Crystal Wheel's orb would coincidentally protrude to form a big eye. The stickers for this Chrome Wheel give it a scaled body, as is needed to perfect the wyvern theme.

Maybe it's unfair to take a stub to task here, and I apologise in advance to whoever wrote this because this isn't a personal attack, just more of an illustration of what the Beywiki is still lacking at the moment. Is this really valuable information? I can see what it looks like from the big image in the introduction. This could be made more redundant with higher quality photos taken from the side. What I really want to know is how can it be used? What does it work well with?

I always implicitly knew and understood that we were sometimes reluctant to write up any certain categorisations of a part's competitive viability because new things were always cropping up. The health of the formats, and especially Limited from what I've read, attests to this. However, at this point I feel that writing something about how competitive a part is doesn't necessarily have to involve any firm classifications of how great / useless it is to be more useful than that description is at the moment And besides, Wyvang is mentioned in the Competitive Combos thread for Attack ...


Moving Forward

I didn't come here to take cheap shots at anyone or to be overly critical towards a project which I have had no recent involvement in. The bare bones of the work here is great, and I would not want anyone to feel discouraged to produce more great content. I'm writing this because Beywiki has always had a huge potential to be a great resource, and I feel that with the impending release of Burst, it is a really important opportunity to cement old knowledge.

A bit of this might come across as a stream of consciousness, but I felt it was more importantly to get down my initial thoughts as an outsider before I became a more active participant of the community again. A lot of this may seem provocative, but I assure I am not trying to be - I just think it would be good to have a conversation about how the Beywiki moves forward into the new generation.

The fact that we have been stripped of a layout really does not help - apparently the latest upgrade of MediaWiki causes all other layouts than the default one to be impossible to use. In fact, the slightest aesthetic change makes Beywiki go blank.

But yes, I definitely want to improve on how Beywiki looks overall. Physical descriptions, honestly, just seemed like something that a certain group of people need and they, of course, make the stub look much less empty while we are waiting for a more complete article to be published.

Thanks Serotonin. The feedback is highly appreciated. I think we're all aware that Beywiki is severely lacking in some areas now — your critique gives us a clearer idea of how we can address that.