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MSF-Gryph Gryph E230BSF

Dec. 07, 2012  10:46 PM
 
I have been working on Gryph for a long time now. I just knew this wheel had major potential, and have come up with several Gryph combos that I never posted because they were just not quite competitive enough. I finally decided to step away from pure attack combos and focus more on a balance style force smashing, grinding combo. So I present to you.....

MSF-Gryph Gryph E230(normal)BSF

Part Explanation: (Click to View)

The Launch: (Click to View)

Tests:
Procedure (Click to View)

vs. Stamina (Click to View)

vs. Defense (Click to View)

vs. Attack (Click to View)

vs. Spin Stealer/Equalizer (Click to View)

Not only could this be competitve but it is also extremely fun to use, and to watch. Seeing an opponent get "pinched" out of the stadium has to be one of the coolest KOs to witness. I hope everyone enjoys the new combo! I would love to see others test this out. I will appreciate any suggestions, and I will try my best to do any requests if I have the parts. The next tests I have planned is vs. Duo 230MB, and vs. other Dragooon combos.
Dec. 07, 2012  10:49 PM
 
Yes, vs. Attack would be nice, thanks for the tests Kain! How would tornado stalling work against Defense / Stamina hybrids? i.e. Basalt BD145CS? Would you flower right into it?
Dec. 07, 2012  10:56 PM
 
(Dec. 07, 2012  10:49 PM)BladerPegasis Wrote: Yes, vs. Attack would be nice, thanks for the tests Kain! How would tornado stalling work against Defense / Stamina hybrids? i.e. Basalt BD145CS? Would you flower right into it?

I did some inform tests against MF-Flash Orion S130RF, and it really all came down to which one was moving the most. Against attack I will probably have to use a sliding shot so that it starts moving immediately. The loss of starting stamina will not be a big deal vs attack because this combo has no problem OS attack if it isn't KOed.

You would still straight shot. It will tornado stall for a while and then once it got to the middle, E230's disk would grind it's way to a win.

Edit: I won't be near a computer for most of the weekend. I will have to use my phone to post, so it might take me a while to answer any questions.
Dec. 07, 2012  11:40 PM
 
Wow this combo seems really fun to use! Luckily I have all the parts except for the double gryph. I will be getting a gryph in the Ulitmate Synchrom DX set though.

I don't see the top part of the wheel getting touched much since BSF is a really tall bottom coupled with a really tall track, so I could contribute some tests with another wheel on top.

I always wanted to find a use for BSF too. It's a really unique bottom that has more grip that MF, but still has nice stamina and doesn't scrape on BD145.
Dec. 07, 2012  11:44 PM
 
You might lose out on some of the spin velocity, but your skill with attack types would likely compensate for that. Do you have Phoenic?
Dec. 07, 2012  11:47 PM
 
No unfortunately not. I could try Killerken to help balance it out or even Begirados to give it more smash when it is tilted.
Dec. 07, 2012  11:50 PM
 
Go for it. Which ever one you think will perform better.

Edit: well here are some vs attack tests

MSF-Gryph Gryph E230BSF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130RF
Flash launched first on even launches, Gryph launched first on odd.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Gryph: 17 (16 OS, 1 KO)
Flash: 3 (0 OS, 3 KO)
Gryph Win %: 85.0%

Because BSF is so tall, Flash was doing nothing but hitting the disk and under the disk. Gryph moves so fast that Flash would have to not only get lucky to connect with it, Flash also had to hope Gryph was at enough of a tilt that it could make contact with its metal wheel. Flash will have to be at a higher height to KO this combo consistently.




Updated Benchmarks:
MSF-H-Saramanda Reviser BD145RDF vs. MF-Flash Orion S130RF
Reviser always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Reviser: 10 (10 OS, 0 KO)
Flash: 10 (0 OS, 10 KO)
Reviser Win %: 50.0%

I can totally tell that my Flash is on its last leg cause this is the same win%I got with my last benchmarks and I know I have gotten at least a little better with attack types.

Dec. 08, 2012  4:16 AM
 
So you decided that Gryph is better than Killerken for this setup or you haven't done any Killerken test? I am still deciding which one is better to use: Gryph or Killerken? BSF or MF? Hopefully I can do some tests tonight.
Dec. 08, 2012  5:24 AM
 
I decided on Gryph because neither Gryphx2 or Killerkenx2 can OS Duo 230, but Gryph has the better chance of KOing it. Killerken can almost do it when it is launched second, but that means you definitely have to have a stronger launch than your opponent so I believe this is the safer bet.
Dec. 08, 2012  11:13 AM
 
Can you test it versus Duo 230MB and left spin combo with dragooon? Thanks Smile
Dec. 08, 2012  12:03 PM
 
i think l-drago guardian E230BSF can be a good substitute for the ones without a gryph.gryph can be replaced by flash i think,or killerken.
thanks to the WBO,my friend will be getting the DX set,stamina and defence.
it has E230.and,he's getting dragooon as well,so BSF will be present.don't know how to get gryph to test this one
Dec. 08, 2012  5:27 PM
 
This combo seems really good. I was actually using something similar to this a while ago- it was Orojya Ifraid TH170 BSF. It didn't work as good as this, though.
Dec. 08, 2012  7:15 PM
 
terzinaccio, those are the 2 tests I stated in the OP that I have left to do. I'm a little worried about Duo 230MB, but I think this can KO most Dragooon combos that are not on rubber tips. Meow!'s Killerken Dragooon is going to be tough to beat and to test against because you have to launch both so aggressively.

zeneo, no dude, LDG would be a horrible replacement for Gryph. It performs nothing like Gryph. I would say Killerken and maybe Phoenic would be the closest. Killerken's grinding will help make up the loss of spin velocity, and Phoenic has as much smash attack as Gryph does force smash.
Dec. 08, 2012  8:20 PM
 
Ah, sorry, i didn't read the last line.
Dec. 08, 2012  8:40 PM
 
Haha, no worries. :-) I just did a few informal tests against Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF.....it is not looking good for Gryph. Killerken Dragooon is just too fast and heavy for it, and destabilizes and makes it scrape itself to death.

Edit: yeah, Dragooon is going to be a problem.


MSF-Gryph Gryph E230BSF vs. Gargole Dragooon BD145EDS
Dragooon always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Gryph: 0 (0 OS, 00 KO)
Dragooon: 10 (10 OS, 0 KO)
Gryph Win %: 0.0%
Feb. 13, 2013  4:17 AM
 
This was being discussed for being potentially top tier, so I thought I'd test it.

MSF Gryph Gryph E230 BSF vs Duo Aquario 230 D
Gryph:13 Wins(All KO)
Duo:7 Wins(4 OS,3 KO)
Gryph Win Rate:65%
Now this surprised me. All I did was launch Duo, see it tilt slightly, and then launch Gryph 90% so it could get a quick hit. My Gryphs are pretty unused, so that might be why.

MSF Gryph Gryph E230 BSF vs MSF Revizer Revizer BD145 CS
Gryph:11 Wins(6 KO,5 OS)
Revizer:9 Wins(8 OS,1 KO)
3 Ties
Gryph Win Rate:55%
CS disrupted the Tornado Stall by going aggressive, but Gryph was still able to OS sometimes and KO sometimes.

MSF Gryph Gryph E230 BSF vs MF-H Flash Orion GB145 R2F
Gryph:13 Wins(9 OS,4 KO)
Flash:7 Wins(6 KO,1 OS)
5 Ties
Gryph Win Rate: 65%

MSF Gryph Gryph E230 BSF vs MSF-L Pegasis Dragooon TR145 R2F
Gryph:2 Wins(All KO)
Dragooon:18 Wins(10 OS,8 KO)
Gryph Win Rate:10%
This was not pretty.
Feb. 13, 2013  6:54 AM
 
Thank You!!! It Is Going To Have Issues With Dragooon , But I Am Ok With That Cause You Pretty Much Confirmed Everything Else!
Mar. 02, 2013  6:51 AM
 
This is an incredibly unique concept. However, the apparent weakness to Dragooon is almost a complete dealbreaker for me. I just can't see somebody using this in a metagame where Dragooon is dominant/ever-present, and in a situation where you have no idea what your opponent is going to use. The trouble it had with MSF Revizer Revizer BD145CS in ShinobuXD's tests is also concerning.

In any case, have you tested this against right-spin attackers that are perhaps a bit more bulky/heavy than Flash? And on Tracks higher than S130? Even on GB145, ShinobuXD got better results with Flash against this combo than you did with S130. The reason I ask is because a) it's obvious that lower Attack combos may have difficulty KOing something using E230, and b) I think that Attack combos are in general, used at the 145-height or higher right now. Tracks like S130 and CH120 are used, but Attackers have been trending towards higher Tracks for a long time now, something which has only been amplified with the focus on high profile Tracks in the ZERO-G series.
Mar. 07, 2013  3:32 PM
 
As far as Dragooon goes, I believe it can KO the SA165EWD version, but my EWD is playing hide and go seek with me (and it's winning) so I can't test it to be sure. Other Dragooon combos are an issue though, but they are for Duo 230MB as well, and this has a better chance against attack.

Against Revizer Reviser BD145CS, I would like to see how the tests would have done if he had banked, because in my more recent experience the more contact the disk has with a 145 height opponent the better, so the disk can grind down the opponents stamina. By tornado stalling, you get a lot less disk contact.

This is not a fully proven combo, but I was already doing tests for Ingulit's thread, and since it is a high attacker I figured it would go well for your request.

MSF-L Bahamdia Ifraid SA165(normal)R2F vs. MSF-L Gryph Gryph E230BSF
Gryph launched first on even launches, BI launched first on odd.
Detail Results (Click to View)
BI: 10 (1 OS, 9 KO)
Gryph: 10 (7 OS, 3 KO)
BI Win %: 50.0%

This match up really could go either way, and it is very hard to do these tests with one person. However, vs. attack types (and I meant to mention this in the vs Flash tests) the same thing still seems to stand true, and that is that you have to make sure Gryph is moving right off the bat and moving quick. Bahamdia Ifraid had to catch Gryph close to an exit to get a clean KO. Bahamdia Ifraid's one OS happened because Gryph got a wall save and lost balance after it bounced off the wall and started scraping.
Aug. 24, 2013  10:17 PM
 
IM NOT LETTING THIS THREAD DIE! Can you test this against MSF-H Wywang Wywang GB145R2F?
Now I know what your all thinking.
"This thing get 50% against Bahamdia Ifraid? How is it supposed to beat one of the best attackers in todays meta game?"
Answer is simple.
Bahamadia Ifraid is using SA165, which means the higher height allows for more contact with 230 height opponents.
Also it is known Wywang Wywang has trouble against E230. That being said, however, Wywang Wywang still has a incredible amout of Smash, and Gryph is using a plastic tip with not as much as traction as a rubber tip. That is why im curious to see how it fares against MSF-L Wywang Wywang GB145R2F.
Aug. 26, 2013  5:51 PM
 
(Dec. 07, 2012  10:49 PM)Rush Wrote: Yes, vs. Attack would be nice, thanks for the tests Kain! How would tornado stalling work against Defense / Stamina hybrids? i.e. Basalt BD145CS? Would you flower right into it?

Basalt is outclassed.....
Aug. 26, 2013  6:46 PM
 
diblee123: The combos using E230 that Wyvang has trouble with are used in upper mode. This combo uses it in lower mode, in which Wyvang can easily make contact with the high-recoil Gryph. It would KO pretty darn easily... Smile
Aug. 26, 2013  8:28 PM
 
Oh, ok. But i feel like i wanna see tests