We should ask @[Mitsu]; I know he has experience with Killerken (my only concern is that something thicker than Genbull might have problems with scraping on 105).

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may be its a dumb question but why did you use LW105 against DF105 on dragoon synchrome attacker? personaly i prefered DF105 on Dragoon and using LW105 for Ldrago custom.

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Beyblade for life! I'm proud to represent Québec and all french people! :D
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Beycloud Profil
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Best tournament:

2014 (Click to View)

Montréal, Québec, Canada - July 12th 2014 - The Bombdiggity Tournament Limited Format => finished third!
Montréal, Québec, Canada - August 16th 2014 - "Notre ami Félix" tournament Zero-G => Finished Second!
Montréal, Québec, Canada - October 11th 2014 - QuéBeycois Tournament Standard Format => Finished third!

2015 (Click to View)

Montréal, Québec, Canada- May 24th 2015 - BeyDays Tournament Standard Format => Finished first!
Montréal, Québec, Canada- June 21st 2015 - La St-Jean Go SHOOT! Tournament Zero-G Format => Finished Second!

Definitely get the pros of RF Defense and like I said; it's an option and a good one. I still personally feel the standard Defense options are a bit better and don't 100% feel RF Defense should be one the list. My opinion on the subject.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

We should ask Mitsu; I know he has experience with Killerken (my only concern is that something thicker than Genbull might have problems with scraping on 105).

I never really had with Killerken 105GF, unfortunately, though you are probably right. I've tested with Time's Genbull Dragooon LW105GF whereas scraping wasn't really the issue. It KO'ed itself more, however.

Unlike BD145 (which in my opinion is a lot less prone to knocking itself out), LW105 and lower tracks with not many gimmicks suffer from being capable of getting that alternative KO if spin-equalization doesn't work out, so that's where BD145GF may have the upper hand over it.

MF-L Duo_100/105EWD/WD,MSF-L Girago/Genbull Dragoon 90/100/105EWD/WD and Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should be added on to the tier list.

MF-L Duo_ 90/100/105EWD/WD,MSF-L Girago/Genbull Dragoon 90/100/105EWD/WD and Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should be added on to the tier list.

I agree with all 3 of these. They all consistently place in tournaments, and are extremely safe choices in competitive play.

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MF-L Duo_ 90/100/105EWD/WD,MSF-L Girago/Genbull Dragoon 90/100/105EWD/WD and Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should be added on to the tier list.

I agree with all 3 of these. They all consistently place in tournaments, and are extremely safe choices in competitive play.

I agree as well. If anyone can vouch for the competitiveness of short Stamina types, it's UltimateOrion. And how was MSF (-H) Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF not on there already?

As for GF, I'm still not really informed enough to make a call either way if should go up. As prominent as Duo B:D/SA165 is if that's the only thing it can beat reliably I'd say it's a little too situational to be included, but I still think it can work if you can manage to control GF (something I still can't do). Also like Kei said GF has placed a total of 5 times so that should be taken into account when deciding (although its low tournament usage is probably because it's a part not a lot of people are confident using).

MF-L Duo_ 90/100/105EWD/WD,MSF-L Girago/Genbull Dragoon 90/100/105EWD/WD and Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should be added on to the tier list.

I honestly don't know how I feel about LTSC's. I personally have never seen any local tournament success with them, but I have heard of some locations using them. But what is the major advantage of using those over lets say B;D or SA165 EWD? Also from what I've seen most everything taller, heavier and faster than LTSC's destroy LTSC's. Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RDF is interesting...I honestly don't think there has been enough testing or tournament results to warrant it on the list. I know it has topped a few times in North Carolina, but other locations I don't think I remember them playing it.

MF-L Duo_ 90/100/105EWD/WD,MSF-L Girago/Genbull Dragoon 90/100/105EWD/WD and Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should be added on to the tier list.

I honestly don't know how I feel about LTSC's. I personally have never seen any local tournament success with them, but I have heard of some locations using them. But what is the major advantage of using those over lets say B;D or SA165 EWD? Also from what I've seen most everything taller, heavier and faster than LTSC's destroy LTSC's. Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RDF is interesting...I honestly don't think there has been enough testing or tournament results to warrant it on the list. I know it has topped a few times in North Carolina, but other locations I don't think I remember them playing it.

Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should definitely be on the tier list. It has some defence can KO right spin when something like Girago Girago BD145RDF can't beat right spin stamina a lot. It can OS spin stealers because of RDF when RSF can't. I used to use it a lot when we did standard events in NY.

Duo and Dragoon LTSC is extremely safe and wins against a lot of things. It mostly only gets beaten by attack and 230 combos.

MF-L Duo_ 90/100/105EWD/WD,MSF-L Girago/Genbull Dragoon 90/100/105EWD/WD and Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should be added on to the tier list.

I honestly don't know how I feel about LTSC's. I personally have never seen any local tournament success with them, but I have heard of some locations using them. But what is the major advantage of using those over lets say B;D or SA165 EWD? Also from what I've seen most everything taller, heavier and faster than LTSC's destroy LTSC's. Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RDF is interesting...I honestly don't think there has been enough testing or tournament results to warrant it on the list. I know it has topped a few times in North Carolina, but other locations I don't think I remember them playing it.

Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF should definitely be on the tier list. It has some defence can KO right spin when something like Girago Girago BD145RDF can't beat right spin stamina a lot. It can OS spin stealers because of RDF when RSF can't.

Duo and Dragoon LTSC is extremely safe and wins against a lot of things. It mostly only gets beaten by attack and 230 combos.

I don't think Girago Girago BD145 RDF was good or tier list worthy so that's not the best comparison to be honest. I still don't think it has seen enough tournament success or tests by anyone besides the TheBlackDragon to be completely viable for the tier list.

Even Defense with a little bit of movement can smash LTSC in to the ground. Most stamina out spins them as well. Anything with a slight bit of movement for the record smashes them to the ground. Especially considering you are using WD/EWD on the combinations. D for the record is less likely to scrape, but still. Do you have some tests you could send me of LTSC? I still don't think they are very viable in the current meta.

I've always had trouble with Duo LTSC scraping because of the overhang. Besides that, Duo is severely prone to destabilization from above (the biggest reason Duo 230MB is so effective against Duo B:D). I've done plenty of experimenting with Duo LTSC and my experience was far from positive.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF is just like Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF, it has placed many times in a lot of areas, and is amazing. It's able to counter some attack types, outspin defense types as well as either OS, or KO stamina types.

LTSC's are able to beat F230 combinations due to how low they are. As well as being able to beat SA165 customs as well. Plus, they have consistently been placing in both New York and in Toronto.

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Every time that I have ever used Duo LTSC it has resulted in the beyblade scrapping. Duos overhang is simply to great of a risk as anything that knocks it slightly off balance results in Duo scraping. I feel that Duo B:D and other tracks around the same height are a safer option.

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Not my WBO

What I mean when I say LTSC's is something like Genbull Dragooon 90EWD, it has done wonders for many people.

Not too sure about Duo though, it should definitely be tested more, but like others have stated it does scrape a lot.

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Oh, Dragooon LTSC? Those things are pretty cool; haven't used/tested them much. How do they handle E230 combinations/HTSCs? Those would be my concerns. If they can handle those well, they could definitely bee added if we get some tests posted. They seem successful enough in competition.

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Oh, Dragooon LTSC? Those things are pretty cool; haven't used/tested them much. How do they handle E230 combinations/HTSCs? Those would be my concerns. If they can handle those well, they could definitely bee added if we get some tests posted. They seem successful enough in competition.

I can definitely get some tests up for LTSC Dragooon.

Surprisingly though it's able to KO other left spins, which is quite weird. It was able to KO 2 Girago Dragooon SA165 (Attack Mode) EWD combinations at the last Toronto tournament.

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Oh, Dragooon LTSC? Those things are pretty cool; haven't used/tested them much. How do they handle E230 combinations/HTSCs? Those would be my concerns. If they can handle those well, they could definitely bee added if we get some tests posted. They seem successful enough in competition.

I can definitely get some tests up for LTSC Dragooon.

Surprisingly though it's able to KO other left spins, which is quite weird. It was able to KO 2 Girago Dragooon SA165 (Attack Mode) EWD combinations at the last Toronto tournament.

Oh thats pretty interesting, didn't think it would be beat SA165 Left Spin Stamina like that. May I ask what the bottom metal was. Wish I had a useable launcher, but I guess Dragooon LTSC might be competitive I honestly probably had no room to talk about that as I have only seen Duo/Phantom LTSC and I've never been impressed. I would love if you could test against 230/E230 combinations and maybe some mid height defensive combination that has a some aggression to it (like RB/RSF etc).

Oh, Dragooon LTSC? Those things are pretty cool; haven't used/tested them much. How do they handle E230 combinations/HTSCs? Those would be my concerns. If they can handle those well, they could definitely bee added if we get some tests posted. They seem successful enough in competition.

I can definitely get some tests up for LTSC Dragooon.

Surprisingly though it's able to KO other left spins, which is quite weird. It was able to KO 2 Girago Dragooon SA165 (Attack Mode) EWD combinations at the last Toronto tournament.

Oh thats pretty interesting, didn't think it would be beat SA165 Left Spin Stamina like that. May I ask what the bottom metal was. Wish I had a useable launcher, but I guess Dragooon LTSC might be competitive I honestly probably had no room to talk about that as I have only seen Duo/Phantom LTSC and I've never been impressed. I would love if you could test against 230/E230 combinations and maybe some mid height defensive combination that has a some aggression to it (like RB/RSF etc).

Usually Genbull on the bottom, but Wyvang can be used if you're feeling risky lol.

I'm going to test against the following:

Genbull Genbull E230MB

Genbull Dragooon SA165EWD

Genbull Dragooon BD145RDF

Duo 230MB?

Also, for the defense comvbination how does something like Revizer Revizer BD145RSF sound?

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I can definitely get some tests up for LTSC Dragooon.

Surprisingly though it's able to KO other left spins, which is quite weird. It was able to KO 2 Girago Dragooon SA165 (Attack Mode) EWD combinations at the last Toronto tournament.

Oh thats pretty interesting, didn't think it would be beat SA165 Left Spin Stamina like that. May I ask what the bottom metal was. Wish I had a useable launcher, but I guess Dragooon LTSC might be competitive I honestly probably had no room to talk about that as I have only seen Duo/Phantom LTSC and I've never been impressed. I would love if you could test against 230/E230 combinations and maybe some mid height defensive combination that has a some aggression to it (like RB/RSF etc).

Usually Genbull on the bottom, but Wyvang can be used if you're feeling risky lol.

I'm going to test against the following:

Genbull Genbull E230MB

Genbull Dragooon SA165EWD

Genbull Dragooon BD145RDF

Duo 230MB?

Also, for the defense comvbination how does something like Revizer Revizer BD145RSF sound?

Test with Girago. Girago is better than Genbull for LTSC Dragoon. It is better for spin stealing.

I can definitely get some tests up for LTSC Dragooon.

Surprisingly though it's able to KO other left spins, which is quite weird. It was able to KO 2 Girago Dragooon SA165 (Attack Mode) EWD combinations at the last Toronto tournament.

Oh thats pretty interesting, didn't think it would be beat SA165 Left Spin Stamina like that. May I ask what the bottom metal was. Wish I had a useable launcher, but I guess Dragooon LTSC might be competitive I honestly probably had no room to talk about that as I have only seen Duo/Phantom LTSC and I've never been impressed. I would love if you could test against 230/E230 combinations and maybe some mid height defensive combination that has a some aggression to it (like RB/RSF etc).

Usually Genbull on the bottom, but Wyvang can be used if you're feeling risky lol.

I'm going to test against the following:

Genbull Genbull E230MB

Genbull Dragooon SA165EWD

Genbull Dragooon BD145RDF

Duo 230MB?

Also, for the defense comvbination how does something like Revizer Revizer BD145RSF sound?

Revizer Revizer BD145 RSF sounds pretty good to me. Thanks for the testing by the way it should be interesting. Hopefully some more people can get testing done as well at some point because it could be viable.

@[UltimateOrion] I'm going to have to disagree with Girago being better than Genbull for spin stealing, what is your reasoning behind it?

Anyways, here are the tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Equipment used:

Mars Red L/R
3 Segment Launcher
Launcher Grip
Launcher Extension
Launcher Rubber
Really Good Condition EWD
My brother

Tests:

Genbull Dragooon 90EWD vs. Revizer Revizer BD145RSF

GD wins: 19 (All OS's)
RR wins: 1 (1 KO)

Genbull Dragooon win percentage: 95%

Easy wins for Dragooon, consistently OS'ing Revizer.



Genbull Dragooon 90EWD vs. Genbull Dragooon BD145RDF

GD90EWD wins: 17 (16 OS's, 1 KO)
GDBD145RDF wins: 3 (All KO's)

Genbull Dragooon 90EWD win percentage: 85%

A few lucky recoil KO's from Genbull Dragooon BD145RDF, as well as one lucky KO from Genbull Dragooon 90EWD.



Genbull Dragooon 90EWD vs. Genbull Genbull E230MB

GD90EWD wins: 15 (All OS's)
GGE230MB wins: 5 (All OS's)

Genbull Dragoon win percentage: 75%

It was all about how you launched Genbull Dragooon, Genbull Genbull got the first 5 wins as I straight launched in to the middle with Genbull Dragooon and it scraped underneath the disc of Genbull Genbull and was OS'd the first 5 times, until I realized that if you tilted Genbull Dragooon it would be hitting the disc, and not be scraping underneath it. So basically Genbull Dragooon could have had 100% against Genbull Genbull but it really mattered on the launch.


I was also going to test against Genbull Dragooon SA165 (Attack) EWD, but my other EWD is currently with Mitsu at the moment, so if anyone else can test that, it would be great

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Personally, I (don't have any actual formal results, but some battles I did reflect LMAO's results) but I prefer Genbu over Zirago for Spin Steal. I feel Genbu is just better for Stamina, not sure about everyone else.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Back when I had a chance of going to Return of Ocean, I practiced a lot against Duo and Zirago Dragooon LTSC because I know NY uses LTSC a lot. Duo was pretty easy to put in the dirt but Dragooon was more threatening. I don't have official tests because it was just to see what could beat the popular customs in the area, but Zirago Dragooon 100EWD could beat Duo 230MB, Genbull Genbull TH170CS/E230MB consistently, and Duo B:D about 50% of the time. Duo 100/105EWD probably "evolved" in the NY meta to stop Dragooon 100EWD (though they'd probably just tie a whole bunch of times).

I couldn't do Dragooon vs. Dragooon because I only have 1 Dragooon but I'm positive it would beat BD145RDF. Not sure about SA165EWD or B:D variants, maybe they'd lose by destabilization, maybe not.

MSF-F Genbull Dragooon 90EWD vs MSF-F Genbull Dragooon SA165 [Normal] EWD
*EWD switched every five rounds, launch alternation every five rounds, chrome wheels swapped every ten rounds, SA165 start's first*

GD 90EWD: Wins 13/20 (3 KO's, 10 OS')
GD SA165EWD: Wins 7/20 (5 KO's, 2 OS')
Genbull Dragooon 90EWD 65% Win Rate

Round by Round breakdown

Spoiler (Click to View)

Round 1 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 2 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 3 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 4 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 5 90EWD Knock's Out
Round 6 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 7 SA165EWD Knock's Out
Round 8 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 9 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 10 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 11 90EWD Knock's Out
Round 12 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 13 SA165EWD Knock's Out
Round 14 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 15 90EWD Knock's Out
Round 16 SA165EWD Konck's Out
Round 17 SA165EWD Out Spin's
Round 18 SA165EWD Out Spin's
Round 19 SA165EWD Knock's Out
Round 20 SA165EWD Knock's Out

MSF-F Genbull Dragooon 90EWD vs MSF-F Genbull Dragooon SA165 [Attack] EWD
*EWD switched every five rounds, launch alternation every five rounds, chrome wheels swapped every ten rounds, SA165 start's first*

GD 90EWD: Wins 15/20 (3 KO's, 12 OS')
GD SA165EWD: Wins 5/20 (4 KO's, 1 OS)
Genbull Dragooon 90EWD 75% Win Rate

Round by Round breakdown

Spoiler (Click to View)

Round 1 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 2 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 3 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 4 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 5 SA165EWD Knock's Out
Round 6 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 7 90EWD Knock's Out
Round 8 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 9 SA165EWD Knock's Out
Round 10 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 11 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 12 SA165EWD Knock's Out
Round 13 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 14 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 15 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 16 SA165EWD Out Spin's
Round 17 90EWD Knock's Out
Round 18 90EWD Knock's Out
Round 19 90EWD Out Spin's
Round 20 SA165EWD Knock's Out

Holy smokes, I'm gone for like 2 hours and you guys have all the testing done already, haha. I'm working on a Limited thread right now, but once I'm done with that I'll do some testing with this. Probably tomorrow sometime.

Anywho, the E230 results look great. That was honestly what I was most worried about.

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