I got Flame Libra a few days ago and I've been messing around with ES. At first I didn't think too much of it, as it had really poor balance. 230 was the first thing I tried it with, but it constantly plowed into the floor with Bull on top. I switched to Aquario and noticed it didn't happen nearly as much. After a bit more testing I figured out that Metal Face Light (with the metal ring and plastic core) kept it mostly upright. I chose flame because of how high it sits on the track, adding to overall height of 230 + ES (ES is pretty tall).

It does wobble a lot, but it has an insane amount of "LOD" spin. It is very crucial in the last few moments.

TT Attack
Beylauncher
Flame Aquario always shot first

vs Burn Bull 145WD - Flame Aquario wins 16/20
vs Burn Bull 85WD - Flame Aquario wins 20/20

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

Well, TBH, the 85 wins are expected because of 230. But 145? How did it not get destabilized? And what of the friction caused by the lack of bearings in a simple plastic-plastic free spinning tip? Did that not affect it at all? The 145 results are the real mystery, and I can't test for myself.

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Well, TBH, the 85 wins are expected because of 230. But 145? How did it not get destabilized? And what of the friction caused by the lack of bearings in a simple plastic-plastic free spinning tip? Did that not affect it at all? The 145 results are the real mystery, and I can't test for myself.

With ES's height and how high Flame sits 145 could not reach the metal wheel.

And yea, the 85 tests were just control.

The friction didn't make too much of a difference, but you could hear when it wasn't functioning right.

I'm sure this wouldn't do very well against Burn Bull 230WD tho.

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

This is kinda surprising, but why use ES over CS? CS is also tall, but has better Stamina and Defense.

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This is kinda surprising, but why use ES over CS? CS is also tall, but has better Stamina and Defense.

I don't own CS I'm sure it would do as well, if not better.

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

Good combo. I was think something like this because I tried ms before but I don't own es.

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This is kinda surprising, but why use ES over CS? CS is also tall, but has better Stamina and Defense.

Maybe because he was actually trying to find a use for ES. CS already has alot of uses

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However, I wouldn't hurt Dani. But I do like the idea!

:djuh:

Maybe because he was actually trying to find a use for ES. CS already has alot of uses

If CS is still better than ES, than ES still has almost no use.

Maybe because he was actually trying to find a use for ES. CS already has alot of uses

If CS is still better than ES, than ES still has almost no use.

The only problem I have with using CS on this combo is that the rubber will mess up ES's great LOD properties (only really visible on the 230 track).

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

This is kinda surprising, but why use ES over CS? CS is also tall, but has better Stamina and Defense.

I don't own CS I'm sure it would do as well, if not better.

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

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This is kinda surprising, but why use ES over CS? CS is also tall, but has better Stamina and Defense.

I don't own CS I'm sure it would do as well, if not better.

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

Yes, Flame or Hell because of the height advantage, causing metal to plastic collision.

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

Flame Gill 230Q? Top tier stamina right here!

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

Flame Gill 230Q? Top tier stamina right here!

Can you not undermine him like that? He is spreading awareness of the synergy between Flame and the 230 Track.

This is kinda surprising, but why use ES over CS? CS is also tall, but has better Stamina and Defense.

I don't own CS I'm sure it would do as well, if not better.

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

I beg to differ. It needs to be a taller than average bottom. WD, SD, and D are all too short. They all allow 145 to destabilize 230. ES gives the height advantage as well as great LOD.

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

Notice the escape point? :V
WB is average size I believe, and it works well with 230.. so.

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The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

To be honest, you can use practically any plastic bottom with 230 and Flame and get great win rates against 145's... :V I though that was known..?

Notice the escape point? :V
WB is average size I believe, and it works well with 230.. so.

Gotcha. On this, I'd imagine B would work as well? Why don't we set up a Flame/Hell 230 testing topic and find out what bottoms work the best.

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Sure, but my predictions are as follows:
CS, WB, -generic defense/stamina bottoms-
:V Yeah I think B would work alright, and D.

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Maybe because he was actually trying to find a use for ES. CS already has alot of uses

If CS is still better than ES, than ES still has almost no use.

But the point is that he was trying to find a use for ES. You're right, ES is not better than CS but he was trying to find a use for ES, not CS. Do you get it.

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However, I wouldn't hurt Dani. But I do like the idea!

:djuh:

Sure, but my predictions are as follows:
CS, WB, -generic defense/stamina bottoms-
:V Yeah I think B would work alright, and D.

Wb on 230 for some odd reason can't beat Earth ____ 100wd.

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Sure, but my predictions are as follows:
CS, WB, -generic defense/stamina bottoms-
:V Yeah I think B would work alright, and D.

Wb on 230 for some odd reason can't beat Earth ____ 100wd.

You need to use Basalt with 230WB. Its inertia is so great that it precedes for so long without scraping the stadium floor.

Sure, but my predictions are as follows:
CS, WB, -generic defense/stamina bottoms-
:V Yeah I think B would work alright, and D.

Wb on 230 for some odd reason can't beat Earth ____ 100wd.

You need to use Basalt with 230WB. Its inertia is so great that it precedes for so long without scraping the stadium floor.

On that note Burn 230B can also be quite useful. I think Basalt does need WB tho, as B would just fall over.

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

Personally I don't like the idea of using ES over CS, the survivability of ES is much poorer then CS especially in the crucial final moments of a match. You mention a key reason for choosing ES was due to the height of the tip though just in case your not aware the height of both ES and CS are extremely similar, with the added height of the tips accompanying 230 and the Flame Metal Wheel they are able to avoid contact with the majority of 145 based opponents which is the objective of this combo. While I've known about this concept for some time now and know of it's effectiveness, from personal experience it's much more effective using CS in conjunction with those previously listed parts as CS simply contains much better stamina, survivability and not to mention due to the rubber coating on CS it also contains significantly better Defense.

Another option if your simply after a combo with pure height is to try HF/S (Sharp Mode) though the survival ability is just as poor as ES with both tips being outclassed by CS. You can continue using ES if you like though it doesn’t offer the combo defensive and stamina qualities that accompany CS.

Thanks for the input, but if you would've read the whole topic you'd see that I also chose ES for it's "life-after-death" ability (squeezing out the last few rotations). The problem I have with CS (tho I'd still like to see some testing, minus the Metal Face Light as that is used to keep ES upright) is the rubber coating will kill any LOD. I'm sure HF/S (S mode) would also be acceptable.

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Going Away Blow Out Sale! PM ME

I think you are trying to find alternatives to what we currently know to be good, amirite?
I'm not putting ES down, but all your after is LOD which probably has little effect on the match whereas CS does better overall with some LOD. I saying its inconsequential -unless your into making beys do cool tricks or something- and CS is an overall better choice. Could you test against attackers and defensive beys? (CS would be the best tip, though you don't have it :[ Dang.)

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Like what Dan said the 'Life After Death' ability of ES is that small that it’s effects bear no real consequence or difference to match while the overall performance/stamina of CS is far superior.

While remembering that last sentiment, the issue of ES VS CS in general performance especially while keeping in context the idea of this combo is to be coupled with 230 and Flame then CS still continues to be the obvious significantly better choice.

In context:

CS:
Better Stamina, Defence and Survivability.
Same height as ES which means the concept of the Flame Metal Wheel being taller then most 145 opponents remains in tact.
Doesn’t posses ‘Life After Death’ though CS’s general Stamina and Survivability is greater then ES which makes ES’s LAD inconsequential.

ES:
As tall as CS, which means it’s able to keep the Flame Metal Wheel from making contact with the opposing Metal Wheel on the majority of 145 opponents.
Does posses some ‘LAD’ ability though due to it’s poorer Stamina and Survivability compared to CS this facet is insignificant in regards to this combo’s concept.