2 hours and 20 pages of winning combinations later, here it is....

So, I was planning on doing this for every format before I realized how little data on them there actually was, but here we go.

Note: Even with limited, this is not a complete collection of data, only what I was able to gather from the winning combinations thread.


The other day I realized that while players post the combinations they are successful with there has never been an analysis of data which inspired me to exercise my excel muscles and do a full one.


So, let's start with the basics, the methodology. Instead of looking at specific combinations which it would be hard to collect data on much less analyze a pattern in, I grouped combinations together based on their wheel and their purpose. Ex: Libra Defense. However, grouping things into our four basic categories felt too basic for my purpose so I subdivided our typical balance section into five others:

Destabilizer: a combination whose primary purpose is to achieve victory by pushing the opposing combination into the ground and then proceeding to outspin
Hybrid: a combination that incorporates elements of both defense and stamina
Staller: everyone's favorite tornado stallers, a combination of attack and stamina
F230: a specific look into the effect f230 has had on limited thus far
Duo 230 MB: Just didn't really know what to classify this as

Note: No gravity on data is included due to its banning and the data on Omega is fairly limited (hehe) due to its rather recent unbanning.



Now, let us move into the most basic data, thus far, success has been reported with 35 different wheel-purpose combinations.

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Image: customs_zps67af768c.jpg]

Next, allow us to look at the most popular custom pairings. Note: At this point, for an accurate count of uses add one to the displayed number.

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[Image: mostpopular_zpse2071bcd.jpg]

Next, a look into the most popular wheels. Note: The number in column d in the same line as the last time the wheel is listed is the number of times used.

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[Image: wheelpopularity_zps7d3444c2.jpg]

Additional, non-obvious information: There are 5 competitive stallers, 9 competitive stamina wheels, 9 competitive attack wheels, 7 competitive hybrids, 2 competitive f230 setups, and 1 competitive defense wheel and destabilizer apiece and Duo 230 MB is still running around.

And last, but certainly not least, an analysis of the most popular types

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Image: favorites_zps69e8c4dc.jpg]

Conclusions for people who don't want to look at the data themselves:

Even in a format designed for attack people are still too scared to use it, yet if anyone does wise up and use it they will dominate due to the overwhelming presence of stamina and absence of defense. However, the hybrid combinations do add another wrinkle to this.

The most popular wheels by far are Earth, Burn, Libra, Scythe, Duo and Meteo.

There are a large number of competitive wheels for each type which was one of the primary goals initially of limited. (Other than defense that is, which appears rather dominated by Libra and underdeveloped at the moment otherwise.)

Umm, a destablizer is mainly described as, pursuing to knock the opposing Beyblade off-balance. For the tornado staller defenition, you should add, main tactic is spinning around the tornado ridge.

Why would Wyvang be considered a hybrid? It has no Stamina uses what-so-ever. I feel you should change the defenition to something like, combines two different types of Beyblades to accomodate Wyvang. So could Libra. Vulcan isnt really a staller. Earth could be classified as mainly Defense too. Pegasis is defenitely not a "hybrid". Vari Ares isnt used for Stamina at all. Begirados doesn't have enough Limited testing to be included. Pegasis isn't a staller. Bahamdia has no use as a "hybrid". Bakushin isn't really a "hybrid" mainly just a defender. Omega is not Stamina... Even if new tournament users used them, they shouldn't really be considered as serious data., because they were must random combos put together by "noobs".

I'm not really sure where you got those numbers for and what they actually mean.

I'd like actualy information that explains why you have those numbers in the corresponding columns.

5 stallers? That can't be right... I'd like the wheels you actually consider "competitive" corresponding to their types.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

If you actually looked at the information instead of just being salty about me calling you unknowledgeable you would see the answers to all of your questions are in the thread. Although, your post did just prove my point, so....

I'm just gonna report that for Spam and leave it at that.

You have written "Note: The number in column d in the same line as last time the wheel listed is the number of times used.

That doesn't explain B or C...

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Conclusions for people who don't want to look at the data themselves:

Even in a format designed for attack people are still too scared to use it, yet if anyone does wise up and use it they will dominate due to the overwhelming presence of stamina and absence of defense. However, the hybrid combinations do add another wrinkle to this.

The most popular wheels by far are Earth, Burn, Libra, Scythe, Duo and Meteo.

There are a large number of competitive wheels for each type which was one of the primary goals initially of limited. (Other than defense that is, which appears rather dominated by Libra and underdeveloped at the moment otherwise.)

Really going to try to avoid getting a warning here, but people like you (people who have not taken basic excel yet) is the reason the above section exists

Your first section of that paragraph hardly portrays to the othe rinformation anyways. What do you mean people like me? I read your poorly guided, information-less data.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

I believe the term Uwik coined in his original Duo 230MB thread was "Topple Defender".

Keep in mind that Earth is like the old Duo, and can be used for Stamina as well as Defense. Calling it a "Hybrid" would be totally accurate. The Wyvang Hybrids probably refer to MSF-H Samurai Wyvang H145RSF, which was used to counter Gravity before it got banned.

I will agree that there is some weird stuff on there though. Like Bregirados Destabilizer, Variares Stamina (it's worse than LLD at spin-equalizing) or Mercury staller.

You might want to add Anti-Attack as well, seeing as a few people have talked about using Libra & Scythe for Anti-Attack.

The Wyvang Hybrids probably refer to MSF-H Samurai Wyvang H145RSF, which was used to counter Gravity before it got banned.

That's what I was thinking, but Time has a hybrid to be considered a combination of Defense and Stamina, but that combo has no stamina, haha.

I will agree that there is some weird stuff on there though. Like Bregirados Destabilizer, Variares Stamina (it's worse than LLD at spin-equalizing) or Mercury staller.

I'm assuming these are members who are new to an uncomeptitive scene and just used something. But that's just an assumption becuase Time hasn't added much information to collate with the data.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

I believe the term Uwik coined in his original Duo 230MB thread was "Topple Defender".

Keep in mind that Earth is like the old Duo, and can be used for Stamina as well as Defense. Calling it a "Hybrid" would be totally accurate. The Wyvang Hybrids probably refer to MSF-H Samurai Wyvang H145RSF, which was used to counter Gravity before it got banned.

I will agree that there is some weird stuff on there though. Like Bregirados Destabilizer, Variares Stamina (it's worse than LLD at spin-equalizing) or Mercury staller.

You might want to add Anti-Attack as well, seeing as a few people have talked about using Libra & Scythe for Anti-Attack.

Nice term for duo 230 MB and yeah I just grouped those in with hybrids when they popped up and yeah there are definitely some outliers in the data

I will agree that there is some weird stuff on there though. Like Bregirados Destabilizer, Variares Stamina (it's worse than LLD at spin-equalizing) or Mercury staller.

I'm assuming these are members who are new to an uncomeptitive scene and just used something. But that's just an assumption becuase Time hasn't added much information to collate with the data.

That's probably true.

Time: It would be a good idea to extend this to see who used what. While some of the weird stuff might just be new users unfamiliar to competitive or Limited (once I battled someone and the only thing he could use for Limited was the Shinobi Gryph he had just pulled from a RB), if like Ingulit or TheBlackDragon or someone more experienced used Mercury it would be worth pointing out.

Also, I forgot to mention in the last post, some people started using Omega MF (which could be classified as a staller.) I'm pretty sure th!nk came up with the idea.

First of all I would like go say that this thread is a treasure. It gives a somewhat reasonable representation of the current limited meta. Honesty, at a prestigious competition like Anime North, you expect a majority of people to use Scythe Stamina and Hybrid and Libra Hybrid. People need to be stop being afraid of launching powerful attack combos utilizing Omega. It has at least a decent chance of KOing in a tourney.

Yeah I'm actually one of the omega mf users and it's really not, it doesn't have the shape to out spin anything the mf just gives it a few more hits before dying and no it wasn't any notable users using the weird stuff

Virgo16 thanks, you seem to get it

Yay, I'm glad to see things look like they calmed down because this is a very good idea for a thread! I do have to agree that things could be labeled a little more clearly, but other than that this is really cool. As far as the whole "not much more than data" thing, that's what threads are for: discussion! Time has compiled and presented some good information about the metagame, so now we can all deduce our own conclusions and talk about them! I'm looking forward to seeing where this thread goes

(I'll post my own thoughts more once I've caught back up with Limited a bit better; I'm woefully behind, haha!)

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4D Customs (Click to View)

• MF-L Phantom (Attack) Cygnus 85MF
  
• MF-H Scythe Uranus 85RS
  
• MF-H Flash Orion W145MF
  
• MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F
  
• Duo Cygnus 160PD
  

MFB Customs (Click to View)

• MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
  
• MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F
  
• MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
  

Ingulit since you are always fairly clear-headed mind saying what actually needs some cleaning up? By the time I was done sifting through and posting all the data it's more than likely that some of the stuf only makes sense to me and if I actually want anybody to bother looking at the data themselves some understandability would probably be a good call

The statistic in the OP is actually fairly interesting. Few things:

Staller: everyone's favorite tornado stallers, a combination of attack and stamina

That description might spark some discussions. I see stalling as just a form of movement, not really a classification in itself. An MB/CS geared for a defense combo is also very much stall-able. For me personally, the description just reads 'Balance', similar to your 'Hybrid' description. If your intention was to further classify Balance types, then I guess it's fine, although maybe simplify the term a bit? "Hybrid Att Sta & Hybrid Def Sta" would probably be more understandable and make more sense.

I believe the term Uwik coined in his original Duo 230MB thread was "Topple Defender".

This is actually the first time I've heard that term "Topple Defender" used. Back then, people used to call it "Wobblers". Anyway, again, if I was to classify this, then it would be under Balance, specifically Hybrid Def Sta.

Even in a format designed for attack people are still too scared to use it, yet if anyone does wise up and use it they will dominate due to the overwhelming presence of stamina and absence of defense. However, the hybrid combinations do add another wrinkle to this.

Although Limited format was not designed for attack people solely, I do agree that it makes it much easier for Attack users to succeed compared to the other formats.

If you wanna up the ante, maybe sort out the classifications a bit better and find the most common part present in the most dominant type (Att-Def-Sta-Bal) and perhaps test what the Limited format would be if that particular part was banned. Who knows, it could be interesting.

Ok, so then wouldn't the answer to your last question just be Earth Stamina? And I don't see it having much of an impact on the meta as a whole as there are several stamina wheels that outperform it nowadays anyways

Not shocked that Libra or Scythe are up there, but Burn kind of surprises me. Of course, this may be due to the beginnings of Limited, but I expected Burn to be abandoned pretty quickly. (Of course, this is mostly based on reading and goofy little solo tests, rather than personal tournament experience. Obviously.)

I wonder how much Scythe/Libra anti-attack in particular is used? I'd assume Libra and Scythe on RF are pretty popular as anti-attack wheels. I know that attack isn't used as much as it probably should, but the two should be versatile enough to warrant quite a few uses. Particularly in the last three months or so, which is when (IIRC) Th!nk really started going off about Scythe.

Not shocked that Libra or Scythe are up there, but Burn kind of surprises me. Of course, this may be due to the beginnings of Limited, but I expected Burn to be abandoned pretty quickly. (Of course, this is mostly based on reading and goofy little solo tests, rather than personal tournament experience. Obviously.)

I wonder how much Scythe/Libra anti-attack in particular is used? I'd assume Libra and Scythe on RF are pretty popular as anti-attack wheels. I know that attack isn't used as much as it probably should, but the two should be versatile enough to warrant quite a few uses. Particularly in the last three months or so, which is when (IIRC) Th!nk really started going off about Scythe.

Yeah, well Burn was used in the GBT2 mostly with Burn 230D and Burn F230CF/GCF. Scythe was used in the GBT2 (forgot who but I think in the finals) for the combo Scythe CH120RF and I guess it lost against LLD___RF/R2F.

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First of all I would like go say that this thread is a treasure. It gives a somewhat reasonable representation of the current limited meta. Honesty, at a prestigious competition like Anime North, you expect a majority of people to use Scythe Stamina and Hybrid and Libra Hybrid. People need to be stop being afraid of launching powerful attack combos utilizing Omega. It has at least a decent chance of KOing in a tourney.

Libra was everywhere on GBT2. Libra was my gomtomthis weekend. Omega had a poor performance this weekend. Give omega time, itll get banned.

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Not shocked that Libra or Scythe are up there, but Burn kind of surprises me. Of course, this may be due to the beginnings of Limited, but I expected Burn to be abandoned pretty quickly. (Of course, this is mostly based on reading and goofy little solo tests, rather than personal tournament experience. Obviously.)

I wonder how much Scythe/Libra anti-attack in particular is used? I'd assume Libra and Scythe on RF are pretty popular as anti-attack wheels. I know that attack isn't used as much as it probably should, but the two should be versatile enough to warrant quite a few uses. Particularly in the last three months or so, which is when (IIRC) Th!nk really started going off about Scythe.

Burn tornado stalers are awesome. Lots of uses.

I think i was the only to use Libra anti attqck this weekend at Anime North.

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First of all I would like go say that this thread is a treasure. It gives a somewhat reasonable representation of the current limited meta. Honesty, at a prestigious competition like Anime North, you expect a majority of people to use Scythe Stamina and Hybrid and Libra Hybrid. People need to be stop being afraid of launching powerful attack combos utilizing Omega. It has at least a decent chance of KOing in a tourney.

Libra was everywhere on GBT2. Libra was my gomtomthis weekend. Omega had a poor performance this weekend. Give omega time, itll get banned.

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Not shocked that Libra or Scythe are up there, but Burn kind of surprises me. Of course, this may be due to the beginnings of Limited, but I expected Burn to be abandoned pretty quickly. (Of course, this is mostly based on reading and goofy little solo tests, rather than personal tournament experience. Obviously.)

I wonder how much Scythe/Libra anti-attack in particular is used? I'd assume Libra and Scythe on RF are pretty popular as anti-attack wheels. I know that attack isn't used as much as it probably should, but the two should be versatile enough to warrant quite a few uses. Particularly in the last three months or so, which is when (IIRC) Th!nk really started going off about Scythe.

Burn tornado stalers are awesome. Lots of uses.

I think i was the only to use Libra anti attqck this weekend at Anime North.

Yeah Libra was used A LOT with combos like Libra 230MB/D and also Libra__WD. Burn___MF was also used by people like originalzankye. I believe it KOed 3 times to win 3-0 once and he lost the rest. I believe Omega was used and it also lost a couple of matches.

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Is there ever going to be any analysis purely on the tracks of choice for particular setups? I think that might be pretty useful in determining the most specific combos for a particular "type" of sorts. Especially in setups that often use the same metal wheel.

Wait you said only one competative defense wheel what about bachsion, earth ,and scythe.

That's three and there all competative

Not by tournament usage.

Not by tournament usage.

Competitive =/= popular. Bakushin is probably the best LTDC wheel for Limited, except it doesn't see as much use because it's more rare than Earth.

It's basically what you said earlier. Attack is by far the most "competitive", with all of the Top-Tier Attack combos being able to KO even a good part of the Defense Types, but people are more scred to use them in tournaments. Their lack of usage doesn't make them uncompetitive.

Libra was everywhere on GBT2. Libra was my gomtomthis weekend. Omega had a poor performance this weekend. Give omega time, itll get banned.

Eh, Scythe too ... Seriously, barely anybody used it, and it mostly lost in GRAND BATTLE TOURNAMENT 2.