I said may dude so I didn't say anything wrong...

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I assume Kei meant that if we instate a weight limit instead of outright banning the Wheel, the incredibly powerful Balance custom Libra CH120RF will be legal once again, and it will be even more effective since MF Libra C145/GB145WB is its only effective counter.
However, effective MF Libra customs are over the weight limit, making Libra CH120RF rather 'Ãœber' and 'broken'.

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We could still use libra defence combos just without metal face on it.

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We could still use libra defence combos just without metal face on it.

Versus MF Libra C145WB -- use 120 height
The win ratio against the top tier Defense combo isn't that great -- only about 60% -- but this still isn't bad, considering how strong it is against the other two types. If you can avoid using this combo against Defense-types, you should, but if you're forced into that situation you can win with a perfect shot and a little luck.

To effectively use this custom, you absolutely must be able to perform Sliding Shoot because the window for landing a successful attack is much smaller than with other Storm or Quetzalcoatl-based Attackers. A skilled Blader can use this customization as an answer to almost anything that is thrown at them.

MF Libra C145WB's win rate is only 40% back then during the tests. I would say that without the Metal Face, Libra C145WB's win percentage will be further lowered.

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Well i'm not gonna use it against that combo if it becomes unbanned so that doesn't really matter.

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In reference to the Libra CH120RF - without the metal face - you can't forget the fact that it's not as heavy as before. If it's not as heavy, the overall force that is applied isn't as strong as with a metal face. This deficit in overall force would not outweigh the increase in speed. Maybe testing it against MF Earth Bull GB145WB would give clearer answers, but I'd assume that it's win rate would be just a little less than 60%.

When the weight is focused around the outside, the blade is harder to stop. This means that it is harder to interrupt the spin, increasing defense. It also means that Attack-types with outwardly-focused weight can smash their opponents harder.

With a Metal Face, the outwardly focused weight will be decreased.

Nobody has ever suggested using MF Libra CH120RF ... it has always been Libra CH120RF. It wouldn't make sense to use MF on it, as megablader2 and Climax have pointed out. I'm trying to say that should we instate a weight limit instead of outright banning the Wheel, this incredibly powerful Balance custom will be legal once again, and it will be even more effective.

Fixed my post. My bad.

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Dude seriously give up no on agrees with you - at all.

Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.

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Most of the evidence you've stated in this is wrong. Also what you said up there is rubbish since if anyone wanted it to be unbanned that badly then they would say so. I get what you say about mass appeal but someone at least has to agree with you to have it unbanned.

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Most of the evidence you've stated in this is wrong. Also what you said up there is rubbish since if anyone wanted it to be unbanned that badly then they would say so. I get what you say about mass appeal but someone at least has to agree with you to have it unbanned.

How is the evidence I've stated wrong? They are my findings from a quick testing period I completed yesterday, no? No one's questioned them, nor had any quarrel with them, apart from you: the one user on this forum who seems so adamant for me to not have my say.

How is anything I've stated 'rubbish'? If I really were spouting out 'rubbish', don't you think the mods would realise that there is no reasoning and logic behind my arguments, and then just shut me down? I've even stated in one of my posts that I would stop with my argument if any moderators wanted me to. Since they haven't said anything like what you're saying, I think it'd be safe to say that what I have been saying is valid.

You're the only user here who has been repeatedly negative towards what I'm saying and it really is getting quite tedious.

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In reference to the Libra CH120RF balance combo, I don't really see why Libra CH120RF would be of any problem. You could just use defence combos against it... I just think of it as an OK attack type, and not really a balance bey like DEMS, so why would someone choose to use that over a top tier attack combination? However, I do understand the appeal of this combo versus attack and stamina blades, but most people would rather use a defence bey against something as aggressive as this.

Like I said, the reintroduction of Libra creates good opportunities and, I think, the re-entry of the balance combo wouldn't be detrimental to the game; it'd allow the player more options in deciding how they want to compete.

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They are my findings from a quick testing period I completed yesterday, no? No one's questioned them, nor had any quarrel with them, apart from you: the one user on this forum who seems so adamant for me to not have my say.

TBH, I think you'll need to do at least 7-10 tests. 3 tests is not really enough to prove much.

Our arguments here are vaguely similar to those found in this thread, haha.

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Like I said, the reintroduction of Libra creates good opportunities and, I think, the re-entry of the balance combo wouldn't be detrimental to the game; it'd allow the player more options in deciding how they want to compete.

Not realy,Libra CH120RF will probley just be dominating everything...

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They are my findings from a quick testing period I completed yesterday, no? No one's questioned them, nor had any quarrel with them, apart from you: the one user on this forum who seems so adamant for me to not have my say.

TBH, I think you'll need to do at least 7-10 tests. 3 tests is not really enough to prove much.

Our arguments here are vaguely similar to those found in this thread, haha.

I realise that they're not 100% accurate, but, as a quick indication, it should be fine. I'll do some later when I can be arsed... London's too hot right now.

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No it doesn't give any indication since 3 tests can't tell you anything.

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Like I said, the reintroduction of Libra creates good opportunities and, I think, the re-entry of the balance combo wouldn't be detrimental to the game; it'd allow the player more options in deciding how they want to compete.

Not realy,Libra CH120RF will probley just be dominating everything...

I don't think you can definitively say that. It's win rate against the stamina blade would probably be lowered, since it was tested against Virgo and D. I'd assume something like Earth, either mold, and SD or WD would stand a better chance. Also, MF Lightning LDrago CH120RF would give it a run for its money, as I think theflightyellz's MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS and Jerf/Ozzy's Pegasis combination would too.

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No it doesn't give any indication since 3 tests can't tell you anything.

It does. Since I saw what was happening during each test, and you didn't, you can't really comment saying how they indicate nothing. Like I said, they are not definitive, but quick indicators to suggest what would happen.

Once again, you're welcome to do your own testing and post your results, but, until then, stop being so condescending and negative. Go find somewhere else to vent any frustrations you may have.

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Yeah i'd rather use an attack combo than the libra balance one. I think enough new parts have come out now that it should be unbanned. Most decent attack combos eg with Quetz or Lightning L drago or pegasus can beat it.

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It would be great if moderators can thoroughly test Libra based customs and see if it's still the beast it used to be.
Unfortunately, I do not own a Libra, so I'm not able to do the tests myself.:\

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I've got one i'll try and do some tests when I get my attack stadium.

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I've got one i'll try and do some tests when I get my attack stadium.

It will be best if the members who do the testing are those who are not involved in this argument.
This way, the results will be more fair.

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Yeah but some results could influence more experienced members to do some too.

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Holy carp! Brad actually posted... I knew he had been watching over us all this time!

I love you guys.

I love you guys.

We know.

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I was bored and I was trying to find a use for H145, so I used MF Lightning LDrago H145RF against Virgo DF145SD and the two defence combos below.

Upper Mode MF Lightning LDrago H145RF vs. MF Libra GB145WB:
13 - 7 (65%)

Upper Mode MF Lightning LDrago H145RF vs. MF Earth Bull GB145WB:
10 - 10 (50%)

I realise that MF Lightning LDrago h145RF is far from the best, but I think it's quite interesting how MF Earth Bull GB145WB is more successful against MF Lightning LDrago H145RF than MF Libra GB145WB.

I'll be doing some more testing soon.

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I'd just like to state that individual testing at home should be taken with a grain of salt. The results one achieves with attack types (particularly with volatile ones) tends to be higher than in a tournament based situation. I've seen this at every tournament I've been to.

Since the ban focuses on tournament usage I think it's important to take that into consideration. The greater level of pressure in a tournament match leaves a player more vulnerable to making mistakes. Attack bottoms fail miserably with a 'poor' shot. Naturally players will be more inclined to lean towards a stamina or defense based combo. While one can defeat Libra, it's much harder to do so under pressure. By PURPOSELY limiting some stable combos in the metagame it allows players to feel more comfortable taking risks, thereby making the overall competitive scene interesting.

A key aspect in statistics is to not only just have strong data collection principles, but also have the ability to take into account many outside factors when analyzing. One needs to factor in the psychology of the player when reading into results, especially when many of the players are younger now. Not doing so gives an incomplete interpretation.

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Thanks to Kai-V for the avatar and signature!

Again, if the blader is at fault and not the blade, it is not a valid argument.

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I'd just like to state that individual testing at home should be taken with a grain of salt. The results one achieves with attack types (particularly with volatile ones) tends to be higher than in a tournament based situation. I've seen this at every tournament I've been to.

Since the ban focuses on tournament usage I think it's important to take that into consideration. The greater level of pressure in a tournament match leaves a player more vulnerable to making mistakes. Attack bottoms fail miserably with a 'poor' shot. Naturally players will be more inclined to lean towards a stamina or defense based combo. While one can defeat Libra, it's much harder to do so under pressure. By PURPOSELY limiting some stable combos in the metagame it allows players to feel more comfortable taking risks, thereby making the overall competitive scene interesting.

A key aspect in statistics is to not only just have strong data collection principles, but also have the ability to take into account many outside factors when analyzing. One needs to factor in the psychology of the player when reading into results, especially when many of the players are younger now. Not doing so gives an incomplete interpretation.

To be fair though, could that not be said about every single combination?

Also, I know the results are not definitive, and the custom isn't what someone would usually use, but the fact that this not-so-good combo did better against Libra than against Earth must surely add some credence to the argument that Libra shouldn't be banned.

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What he means is that, it is far easier to succeed with RF at home than it is in a tournament-based situation; ergo, Libra becomes an even easier Wheel to use, with its success rate increasing further in tournaments.