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[LTD] F230 Discussion

Jan. 18, 2014  3:32 AM
 
OK, I'm sure it's about time we had one, haha. Sorry for this lame talk, I'm just really tired from testing.
F230 Seems to be doing really great in Limited, but is it doing to good? Should it be banned for the upcoming tournaments? Now, F230 has been around for a long time and we still have no counter for it. In Limited its easy to beat if its in left-spin.
Wait, it's a BB-10 Format, it shouldn't be that hard, should it? Well my tests and others show some cases. Its main setup is F230 CF/GCF. Now, I'll write more later, but now for the tests:

Fake tests (Click to View)
Jan. 18, 2014  3:41 AM
 
What F230 was used? I could do some F230 VS. Gravity testing if needed. Most likely with a Red F230.

It seems really OP TBH. Do you think it would do well against regular Spin-Stealers? Gravity was able to OS Meteo.
Jan. 18, 2014  3:46 AM
 
I updated the OP with what F230's was used. Gravity can destroy Meteo no problem whilst in Left-Spin.

I'm not sure, TBH, I need testing, haha.
Jan. 18, 2014  11:42 PM
 
Well... I must say... this is a good thread... I wasn't really sure what to do... apart from back up the results you got. Please let me know what tests to do...

Meteo Testing:
Using Orange F230
Spoiler (Click to View)

Defense Testing:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Jan. 20, 2014  1:26 AM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  12:21 AM)MidnightLWBO Wrote:
(Jan. 18, 2014  12:15 AM)" L Wrote: Yeah, th!nk's my dad, haha. Kai-V's my mother, haha. Only my dad knows at the moment, but it'll be up tonight.
I swear, that combo better not have F230CF. :p
Remember that? You just didn't listen, eh. xd Also, I have no idea if this would go here but, would you be able to do tests with (Crystal Wheel)_Dragoon F230CF? I did win 3-0 against LMAO with something like that. I'm pretty sure he was using a Gravity Perseus D125CF. I'd just like to see more testings against different combos. Thanks! Smile
Jan. 28, 2014  1:57 PM
 
(Jan. 20, 2014  1:26 AM)MidnightLWBO Wrote:
(Jan. 18, 2014  12:21 AM)MidnightLWBO Wrote:
(Jan. 18, 2014  12:15 AM)" L Wrote: Yeah, th!nk's my dad, haha. Kai-V's my mother, haha. Only my dad knows at the moment, but it'll be up tonight.
I swear, that combo better not have F230CF. :p
Remember that? You just didn't listen, eh. xd Also, I have no idea if this would go here but, would you be able to do tests with (Crystal Wheel)_Dragoon F230CF? I did win 3-0 against LMAO with something like that. I'm pretty sure he was using a Gravity Perseus D125CF. I'd just like to see more testings against different combos. Thanks! Smile

I just played around with Samurai Dragooon and its spin stealing ability is pretty okay given its awful balance and it's one of the heaviest Left-Spin things in the format so it is probably worth looking into, as F230 will get its metal wheel out of contact range, lowering its recoil, though I do wonder if it has the stability to pull it off. Metal Fury LDD/LDG also need testing. Most Dark Knight stuff is around the same weight as Meteo L-Drago if not lighter, thanks to L-Drago II being like the heaviest Clear Wheel analog out.

More people should test MLD F230(G)CF vs Attack, too, as L's results were more than a little intimidating.
Jan. 28, 2014  2:20 PM
 
Did you not see th!nk? I found out my Right-Launcher was broken. That's why Meteo got the wins. I believe I posted it somewhere before.
Jan. 28, 2014  2:27 PM
 
I didn't see it anywhere, probably worth mentioning it in the MLD F230 thread and in the posts with the affected tests. That still means we've got no testing for it vs Right Spin Attack, which would still be interesting.
Jan. 28, 2014  7:14 PM
 
Er, just to say, I've had truckloads of personal/tournament experience with F230 customs of all kinds in all formats, and the thing that makes them so amazing is the fact that they don't fall over at all.

I was playing Dark in LTD a few weeks back, and he pulled ____ Dragooon F230CF. I was using Gravity CH120EWD. I laughed and told him he was toast. He asked why, and I said: "You're too top heavy!"

Sure enough, I took it 3-0 because his combo fell over just at the end of each match, losing him the couple seconds he needed to OS.

That said, Chrome-Up F230 customs are a reeeeeeaally bad idea if you ask me. Too top heavy. I'd stick with Cystal-up or just use Meteo.
Jan. 28, 2014  7:28 PM
 
(Jan. 28, 2014  7:14 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Er, just to say, I've had truckloads of personal/tournament experience with F230 customs of all kinds in all formats, and the thing that makes them so amazing is the fact that they don't fall over at all.

I was playing Dark in LTD a few weeks back, and he pulled ____ Dragooon F230CF. I was using Gravity CH120EWD. I laughed and told him he was toast. He asked why, and I said: "You're too top heavy!"

Sure enough, I took it 3-0 because his combo fell over just at the end of each match, losing him the couple seconds he needed to OS.

That said, Chrome-Up F230 customs are a reeeeeeaally bad idea if you ask me. Too top heavy. I'd stick with Cystal-up or just use Meteo.

Mmm, I wasn't sure if that would be an issue for Dragooon or not, its balance isn't awful compared to most chrome wheels. I have heard that at least Metal Fury LDG has poor balance, and Metal Fury LDD is only very slightly heavier than MLD anyway, and IIRC it also had stamina issues and again is gonna be top heavy. I guess unless any of the heavier, less-recoil prone Chrome Wheels are balanced enough for DK to be worthwhile, MLD is gonna be the big F230(G)CF user, then.
Jan. 29, 2014  1:00 AM
 
Actually, MSF-H Dark Knight Genbull is pretty nicely balanced. It's quite a competitive setup if you ask me. Revizer can't balance with anything, let alone Dark Knight, and Killerken's balance is off as well. Gargole is pretty awful, and so is (surprisingly) Girago.

Wyvang is also pretty nicely balanced. However (though I'm not sure the measure of the consequence), its high recoil would most likely be a problem.
Jan. 29, 2014  1:44 AM
 
After personally using Meteo F230 in a Tournament, here's my standings-
Spoiler (Click to View)
However, it is very powerful, but not "undefeatable". I did not face any Lighting Attackers, but even then; it was beaten a few times a match (Libra, etc.), showing it's not necessarily "broken" in this format.
Jan. 29, 2014  3:54 AM
 
Going up against F230 in Limited was no where near as insane as going up against it in Zero-G. As Leone19 said, our meta isn't very attack-oriented, or I think we might have seen F230 do a bit worse.
Jun. 11, 2014  11:39 PM
 
I'm going to do testing for MF-H Earth Cancer f230cf against this and other top tier combos because it seems earth would be able to k-o meteo in an f230 vs f230 battle, also earth demonstrates anti-spin steal. It appears to be meteo f230 is like a light version of dragooon f230 and earth is like duo f230.

I will have the tests up in an hour or two, that is if they are not been done yet.
Jun. 12, 2014  1:01 AM
 
Things like that have been known for a while, but from personal testing and experience, Burn F230 is better than Earth F230.
Jun. 15, 2014  10:28 PM
 
Has anyone actually posted test results for Libra on F230? I'm curious.
Jun. 15, 2014  10:35 PM
 
Ehh that seems like a no-no to me. I less your Libra is pretty worn its recoily underside would lead to KOs.

I do have some time to test however.
Jun. 15, 2014  10:35 PM
 
(Jun. 15, 2014  10:28 PM)Kei Wrote: Has anyone actually posted test results for Libra on F230? I'm curious.

Is this from our battle at AN? Tongue_out

I'll post some tests after finals, I've been meaning to post another Limited combo but haven't had time.
(Jun. 15, 2014  10:35 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: Ehh that seems like a no-no to me. I less your Libra is pretty worn its recoily underside would lead to KOs.

I do have some time to test however.

It's actually worked well for me against things like Scythe CH120 RF, Samurai Wyvang H145(?) RSF at AN, and with tests at home, it's beaten some mainstream stamina and balance types.

The only thing it lost to for me at AN was a Burn ___ TH170 D(?).

For me, what is defeats really varies on the launch.
Jun. 16, 2014  12:28 AM
 
(Jun. 15, 2014  10:35 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: Ehh that seems like a no-no to me. I less your Libra is pretty worn its recoily underside would lead to KOs.

I do have some time to test however.

That's true, but it might be better than any other Stamina Wheel against Attack types. Everything else is obviously much lighter and easier to KO. The question is whether or not it actually beats any worthwhile Stamina types (whether that be by OS or even KO, maybe).
Jun. 16, 2014  1:25 AM
 
From what I have tried with it, it KO'd pretty well against popular stamina combos. Plus with its weight and the speed of GCF, against attack types it counters them quite effectively. Against left spin F230GCF combos, it was pretty much 50/50. Scythe did much better against them, but to me that's not to surprising. It pretty much demolished Scythe though when its lower than 200 at least. Other than many tall stamina combos, it did quite well.
Jun. 16, 2014  2:15 AM
 
For me, it depends on the launch. I usually bank or go for a sliding shoot if it's against Stamina- it does really well. The only times it had issues was against a Burn TH170 (?) combination at AN.

Against Defense, I like stalling it, so by the time it reaches the center and makes contact, it has a good amount of energy left to free-spin.
Jun. 16, 2014  8:43 PM
 
(Jun. 16, 2014  2:15 AM)Leone19 Wrote: The only times it had issues was against a Burn TH170 (?) combination at AN.

You're talking about Pockyx3 right? He used D on that combo.
Jun. 16, 2014  9:10 PM
 
(Jun. 16, 2014  8:43 PM)Kei Wrote:
(Jun. 16, 2014  2:15 AM)Leone19 Wrote: The only times it had issues was against a Burn TH170 (?) combination at AN.

You're talking about Pockyx3 right? He used D on that combo.

Yeah, thanks.

I tried to KO it, but Libra ended up stalling, and didn't have enough stamina to win by the time it made contact.
Jun. 16, 2014  10:42 PM
 
(Jun. 15, 2014  10:28 PM)Kei Wrote: Has anyone actually posted test results for Libra on F230? I'm curious.

I was just quite recently working on testings using Libra F230GCF, against MF-H Scythe Cancer 230RSF. Here they are!:

Notes:

- I'll be using Hasbro's Orange F230, though it works just like Takara's Orange.

- I'll also be using an AA2 mold of Scythe as well.

Spoiler (Click to View)

(Jun. 15, 2014  10:35 PM)Leone19 Wrote: It's actually worked well for me against things like Scythe CH120 RF

That combo failed me, really bad. Serious
Jun. 16, 2014  11:07 PM
 
Quick tests:

Using a TT Orange, of course with a CF:

Against Scythe 230 RSF, I stalled Libra:
Libra: (16 OS, 1 KO)
Scythe: (3 OS)
Libra Win Rate: 85%

Against Scythe BGrin, I banked Libra:
Libra: (14 OS, 3 KO)
Scythe: (3 OS)
Libra Win Rate: 85%
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