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[LTD] Duo (Metal Fury) Discussion

Dec. 15, 2013  12:29 PM
 

As I observed in the video, the Metal Fury Duo has ridges that along the side that very much remind me of Basalt, but, the ridges on Duo are frequent around the ENTIRE wheel, and the spacing between the ridges decreases and increases repeatedly through the wheel. I might have to make another video showing that if y'all want to see what I mean in more depth.

Solo Spin Times:
4:06
4:26
4:05
4:16
3:56

Average: 4:02

The 3:56 and the 4:26 are both somewhat outliers, so inform me if y'all think I should maybe redo 2 more spins.

Stamina Tests:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Fantastic results against Earth, predictable results against the Takara Tomy Duo, and rather surprising results against Burn.


Defense Tests:
Spoiler (Click to View)

There were requests in the previous thread to test Duo in a LTDC, so I'll hopefully do those later today as well as some 230MB/WD/D tests.
Dec. 15, 2013  12:37 PM
 
Now THAT is a properly done part testing thread. Thankyou, Zancrow.

Those ridges help explain why its defense isn't so great/why Burn is pushing it around - I always found they were more significant than you'd expect on basalt (in essence a worn basalt tended to take hits noticeably better than a mint one, and those ridges were the only real difference).

Also the fact it isn't even 31g probably doesn't help it, assuming this weight is accurate (seeing as no source etc is given).
Dec. 15, 2013  12:39 PM
 
Thanks for the great thread, Zancrow. Fantastic job and job well done.

As Top-Priority as 230 D/MB is, maybe we should give SR200 TB a shot, as well.
Dec. 15, 2013  12:43 PM
 
Doing the 230MB tests as we speak, as well as 230JB tests after lol (yes, it works with TT Duo).

I have SR200, but I don't own a TB. Is there anything else that can be used?
Dec. 15, 2013  12:47 PM
 
(Dec. 15, 2013  12:43 PM)Zancrow Wrote: Doing the 230MB tests as we speak, as well as 230JB tests after lol (yes, it works with TT Duo).

I have SR200, but I don't own a TB. Is there anything else that can be used?

Sadly, I don't think there is. Tongue_out

Either way, I'm still really excited for some 230 D tests, my friend did a few for fun, they turned out really well. Tongue_out
Dec. 15, 2013  12:47 PM
 
I'm still most interested in LTSC/LTDC stuff seeing as tall tracks are risky given how the format has shaped up so far, and Duo's overhang is just asking for trouble. Also I don't really expect 230MB to work very well as this duo lacks a lot of the properties that made the original work - most importantly it's very light which is bad if things are going to be hitting you from below - you'll get destabilised very easily. I always liked 230JB but found it fell a little short of the numbers it needed to get to be useful.

Also for reference, 30.8g is lighter than any viable defense wheel from the hybrid wheel system by a significant margin - Bakushin is the lightest so far and even that sits just above 32g, whereas Chrome Wheels have crystal wheels to make up some extra weight. I'd appreciate it if anyone could confirm the weight on a calibrated scale, as 30.8g is around the same mark as Killer, which is a little hard to believe (though between the tests and the video, I'd not be that surprised either).

Now I think about it, could you give MF-H Duo (Stamina CW) 230CS vs Earth ____ W145/AD145WD a shot? I want to get a picture of just how good its stamina is.
Dec. 15, 2013  12:48 PM
 
I've done some tests with Duo 230D. I'm doing more tests with Duo. Yeah, Duo doesn't really have use as defence, but the stamina looks good! Thanks for the tests dude. Been wanting a Duo threads for days. Just woke up and made my day haha.
Dec. 15, 2013  1:50 PM
 
Added these to the OP.

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-L Earth Gasher W145WD

Duo: 10 Wins (1 KO, 9 SO)
Earth: 0 Wins (0 KO, 0 SO)
0 Draws
Duo Win Rate: 100%
Round-by-round Results:
Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-L Burn Gasher W145WD

Duo: 10 Wins (1 KO, 9 SO)
Burn: 0 Wins (0 KO, 0 SO)
0 Draws
Duo Win Rate: 100%
Round-by-round Results:
Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-H Duo Aquario 230MB vs. MF-L Burn Gasher TH170D

Duo: 12 Wins (1 KO, 11 SO)
Burn: 8 Wins (2 KO, 6 SO)
0 Draws
Duo Win Rate: %
Round-by-round Results:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Dec. 15, 2013  1:57 PM
 
Not bad, but I'm not sure it'll see any use over the standard stamina setups, especially EWD given that tip generally lets anything with decent stamina outspin Limited's spin stealers.

Would love to see tests of this vs Metal Fury Scythe or Phantom, if anyone has either of those and Duo, in the same setups with parts swapped half way.


Also, what parts did you use for those solo spin tests, Zancrow?
Dec. 15, 2013  2:34 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Dec. 15, 2013  2:45 PM
 
Did you swap the CW's as well, or is there a reason you chose them for each wheel? Assuming everything is in order, that means Scythe is probably going to be king of stamina aside from its struggles with track heights, unless Phantom performs better against Duo, seeing as apparently scythe beating that is due to scythe getting under it on the same height track.

Thanks very much for those tests. Would be a good idea to post them in the Scythe thread too.
Dec. 15, 2013  2:56 PM
 
I was going to do Cancer and Cancer, but my other Cancer wheel was lost. I did swap the CW's though. I was going to do Phantom as well, but did not have time. So I'd be happy if someone else could do them . Phantom may get better results then Scythe, but I think Scythe is gonna be the king of stamina in this format. Haha, yes, that would be a good idea.
Dec. 15, 2013  3:06 PM
 
If they were swapped then it's probably okay, albeit not ideal. Thanks very much. Phantom tests would be a huge help if you can do them under the same conditions as those, for comparison, if you get time in future. That'd be one of the last pieces of testing needed to get a rough idea of the stamina landscape in Limited (spin stealers aside), which is quite useful data to have.
Dec. 15, 2013  4:19 PM
 
I don't have much to say other than you did a phenomenal job with this thread Zancrow, amazing work.

I won't be able to help test until Christmas (I know for sure I'll be getting one then), but in the mean time, I'd love to see any tests against Metal Fury Scythe. Scythe has been doing really well for me stamina-wise, but its recoil really hurts; if Duo outperforms Scythe that would be very significant since I'm assuming Duo has less recoil (especially a worn one, judging from this conversation?).
Dec. 15, 2013  4:38 PM
 
A worn one might help but these look more like indentations than the ridges on basalt so they mightn't wear as nicely. As for less recoil, look at those burn tests... They make me think that the reported weight may be correct, as I don't see any other way it could have that kind of trouble.

I would be curious to see if GB145 helps at all. While I've always railed against it as a stamina track, I tried it out today and it might not be too detrimental that Duo's solid stamina can't make up for it (though I don't own W145, and that may well completely blow GB145 away). Duo ___ GB145WD vs Burn ___ W145WD would be really interesting. Then again, perhaps MF-H and 230MB is enough as it is.

That said, I certainly wouldn't mind if all the metal fury stamina wheels had these recoil issues - it would give the non metal fury ones a place, at least, which is nice for areas like mine that didn't receive metal fury.
Dec. 15, 2013  4:50 PM
 
I've always loved the Metal Fury Duo for stamina and I will be sure to get some official tests later for it. I bet this will be a great part for the limited format.
Dec. 15, 2013  6:01 PM
 
I like this. The tests are proving to make this a pretty competitive wheel as long as it's with the right parts. Could you also post the Takara Solo spin times just so we can compare them? I think W145/AD145 will prove useful to Hasbro Duo especially since the Duo is slightly hollow from the bottom.
(Dec. 15, 2013  4:38 PM)th!nk Wrote: A worn one might help but these look more like indentations than the ridges on basalt so they mightn't wear as nicely. As for less recoil, look at those burn tests... They make me think that the reported weight may be correct, as I don't see any other way it could have that kind of trouble.

I would be curious to see if GB145 helps at all. While I've always railed against it as a stamina track, I tried it out today and it might not be too detrimental that Duo's solid stamina can't make up for it (though I don't own W145, and that may well completely blow GB145 away). Duo ___ GB145WD vs Burn ___ W145WD would be really interesting. Then again, perhaps MF-H and 230MB is enough as it is.

That said, I certainly wouldn't mind if all the metal fury stamina wheels had these recoil issues - it would give the non metal fury ones a place, at least, which is nice for areas like mine that didn't receive metal fury.
GB145 would help to keep it up and it does sound interesting. I want to see some tests for it as well. It has the recoil issues because of its hollow bottom, but there are many tracks which could help with that and I don't know if GB145 is one of those. I honestly have no right to speak for GB145, because I haven't tested it so please test it.
Dec. 15, 2013  6:17 PM
 
Well I've done the tests with Duo AD145WD.. They're looking good:

Duo Cancer AD145WD vs Scythe Cygnus AD145WD
Duo: 14/20 (14 OS's, 0 KO's)
Scythe: 6/20 (6 OS', 0 KO's)

Duo win rate: 70%

When Scythe was on AD145, Duo was boss. It seems to be good on Low Stamina tracks like: AD145 W145. I did swap parts during battle. Duo seems to get more stamina on AD145 and I'm sure W145 too.
Dec. 15, 2013  6:23 PM
 
(Dec. 15, 2013  6:17 PM)Galaxy Blade Wrote: Well I've done the tests with Duo AD145WD.. They're looking good:

Duo Cancer AD145WD vs Scythe Cygnus AD145WD
Duo: 14/20 (14 OS's, 0 KO's)
Scythe: 6/20 (6 OS', 0 KO's)

Duo win rate: 70%

When Scythe was on AD145, Duo was boss. It seems to be good on Low Stamina tracks like: AD145 W145. I did swap parts during battle. Duo seems to get more stamina on AD145 and I'm sure W145 too.
AD145 is considered a substitute for W145. So if AD145 is going as good as those tests say then W145 will increase it's stamina by far.
Dec. 15, 2013  6:42 PM
 
W145 won't increase its LAD, just its stamina.

Interesting, looks like Duo isn't out of the running yet. Thanks for the tests.
Dec. 15, 2013  6:43 PM
 
(Dec. 15, 2013  6:42 PM)th!nk Wrote: W145 won't increase its LAD, just its stamina.
I'm sorry I get mixed at times and type LAD instead of Stamina. I mean LAD doesn't even have anything to do with this. Yeah I'll change it.
Dec. 15, 2013  7:49 PM
 
Do we have weights to compare Scythe and Duo by chance?

The tests on AD145 seem to paint a nice picture for similar results on W145, if anyone can try Duo out on it, I feel that will be one of the top Stamina customs for this format. I still would like to see some tests on GB145, as well as some lower tracks such 85, 90, or in between through CH120, as I recall having success with Stamina types on Lower Tracks.

It would be nice if we could get some Duo tests against the above mentioned Wheels to give a better idea on where it stands among other Stamina Wheels.
Dec. 15, 2013  7:56 PM
 
Couldn't find anything in the original Metal Fury Scythe thread, you could try the Hasbro discussion thread if you're feeling brave and extremely patient, I guess, but I am not going near that thing haha.
Dec. 15, 2013  8:05 PM
 
Oh goodness no thank you haha. I will be in there all day, plus, I do not really recall a whole lot, if any, testing on Metal Fury Scythe in there due to it being extremely hollow and light. I'll just be patient and wait for weights from someone else.
Dec. 15, 2013  10:52 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
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