I play a lot of Beyblade despite my relative inactivity, and the one and only piece that feels genuinely unfair is Judgment. To have a layer in the meta that has no actual counters is going to stagnate the meta game of Beyblade. Archer Hercules, Poison Diabolos, Orb Egis, Perfect Phoenix, Lord Spriggan, Cho Z Spriggan, Wizard Fafnir,  and even Zwei Longinus can't compete against the layer.

Don't get me wrong, Judgment doesn't win every game, but that's because it's prone to self KO. No other piece stands against it as a viable competitor. Zwei Longinus definitely feels like it's the closest thing to a decent match-up, but it is still prone to bursting and losing to burst priority even when it gets the KO. Judgment on the other hand will not burst from impacts against Zwei, given it has a half decent combination going for it.

Judgment, on top of feeling as if it is the most difficult layer to compete against, also seems to have a bizarre amount of versatility. It works flawlessly as an attack layer or a stamina layer. If it holds the center against other stamina types it will almost definitely repel them to a KO, or deliver such repeated impacts which fail to KO that it will burst them. No other piece gives a person this level of control.

Judgment is already running around constantly at tournament play, especially once you get to the top 8. It should be obvious that it's not just good, but genuinely the best in the game. I have real concerns about Beyblade becoming nothing but Judgment vs Judgment matches, because why throw a match away if you're in it to win? I plan to start playing Judgment because after a sizable amount of testing, I'm not really left with a choice. It's the only layer in the game that does all the work for you and has no counter play. Spin and Win, regardless of what your opponent has.

I hold the belief that for the good of the game, Judgment should be banned. People were concerned about Lord and Bearing being too much to handle, but Judgment disposes of both of those parts with ease.

The thing is you actually need to be good with attack to use judgment it takes skill and there are counters to it. I know choS.00.Kp is a pretty good counter I also think that left spin wall bearing combos like lord, belkesh, and dread are still pretty difficult to beat with judgment too and with Keep dash coming out we will be able to use other combos that don’t need choS bursts stoppers

Dread with any chip and Gen bursts constantly against Judgment. It's unfortunate since I want Dread to work based purely on its aesthetics but it can't hold up against Judgment. Once Keep' is released I'll be able to play test it. I do hope that it acts as a consistent counter for Judgment, as Beyblade certainly feels less fun overall when one piece feels overbearing against everything I could throw at it.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

Judgement while it is one of the most OP Bases in the meta it has just one weakness...... and thats its weak side

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PFP: Baby picture of me and one of my irl friends / ANY PRONOUNS

Thinking Judgement, a meta attack layer after nearly a year of weak or niche attack layers preceding it... Can't attack just be good for once?

Now to give a more serious commentary, since I did call attack type dead for more than 6 months. I'll be responding to points made by the OP of this thread.

Wizard isn't meta. Perfect Phoenix (00C.Xt+) goes even with Judgement. Cho-Z Spriggan and Lord (00W.Br/00C.Xt+) also go about even with Judgement. Lord, Hell Salamander, and Dread (St.At/O/Om) have a favorable matchup against Judgement. Zwei (any disc.Ds') beats Judgement if it can avoid KO. Zwei rarely bursts against Judgement. It's an opposite spin matchup. Any opposite spin layer on Keep will win most of the time.

Judgement isn't used as a stamina layer. It's used for stationary attack, usually either Atomic (with the Gen weight) or Octa. There aren't enough tournament tops, and the new defensive Dash driver haven't been released, to give accurate results for stationary Judgement. However, Judgement Atomic Gen would have significant KO risk into attack types.

If tournament usage is your argument, then we should ban Bearing, Perfect Phoenix, and Zwei. All of which see just about as much use as Judgement. Hell Salamander.Sting.Orbit is the easiest counter to Judgement. Cho-Z Achilles on Orbit Metal is something I hypothesize could work as an option, though I don't know if it would stand a chance against Perfect Phoenix, Archer Hercules, and Orb Egis combos.

And again, Unite' and Keep' are coming in the next Random Booster, which are guaranteed counters to Judgement.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

Judgement while it is one of the most OP Bases in the meta it has just one weakness...... and thats its weak side

Not to be rude, but can we please stop with this kind of logic? There is no such thing as a "weak side". Although that's intended, the anime doesn't even reference it. In order to make a bey skip a tooth, both ends of the disc have to move. Therefore, hitting the "weak side" still uses the burst stopper. Even if this was an actual thing, I don't see anyone's Judgement bursting often enough for this to be an issue.

Judgement while it is one of the most OP Bases in the meta it has just one weakness...... and thats its weak side

Not to be rude, but can we please stop with this kind of logic? There is no such thing as a "weak side". Although that's intended, the anime doesn't even reference it. In order to make a bey skip a tooth, both ends of the disc have to move. Therefore, hitting the "weak side" still uses the burst stopper. Even if this was an actual thing, I don't see anyone's Judgement bursting often enough for this to be an issue.

Even if the strong side and weak side gimmick did work, a Dash Driver could just bypass that weakness.

Not to be rude, but can we please stop with this kind of logic? There is no such thing as a "weak side". Although that's intended, the anime doesn't even reference it. In order to make a bey skip a tooth, both ends of the disc have to move. Therefore, hitting the "weak side" still uses the burst stopper. Even if this was an actual thing, I don't see anyone's Judgement bursting often enough for this to be an issue.

Even if the strong side and weak side gimmick did work, a Dash Driver could just bypass that weakness.

Honestly, a Dash Driver(my username’s inspiration) could bypass pretty much any burst resistance weakness.

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10 letter word.

I don't have access to Keep as of yet so I couldn't test it, but Lord Valyrie/Spriggan on Xtend+ is easily blown out of the water by Judgment Diabolos/Valkyrie. I gave up on that match up after losing 5 in a row with KOs. Bearing in left spin, on Cho Z Spriggan, bursts against Judgment. Judgment is the only layer I've ever witnessed that can burst an opposite spin bearing combo. Royal Cho Z Spriggan and the regular Cho Z Spriggan both consistently burst. Cho Z Spriggan won 1 game total among 7 against Judgment and it felt as if I got lucky, not as if I had something that could stop it.

If your Burst resistor and Burst stopper layers are bursting in your tests, you are doing something wrong. Either you aren't using the right discs, aren't launching hard enough to activate stoppers, or are launching Judgement long after the other bey is launched. Your tests are flawed.

Uh, I thought the whole point of going opposite spin on Bearing involved the weak launch? Why are you questioning the fact that the Burst stoppers aren't out?

If your Burst resistor and Burst stopper layers are bursting in your tests, you are doing something wrong. Either you aren't using the right discs, aren't launching hard enough to activate stoppers, or are launching Judgement long after the other bey is launched. Your tests are flawed.

Uh, I thought the whole point of going opposite spin on Bearing involved the weak launch? Why are you questioning the fact that the Burst stoppers aren't out?

I think opposite spin Bearing on CzS needs to be launched hard to activate the burst stoppers, rendering problems with Bearing’s weak spring null.

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10 letter word.

Uh, I thought the whole point of going opposite spin on Bearing involved the weak launch? Why are you questioning the fact that the Burst stoppers aren't out?

I think opposite spin Bearing on CzS needs to be launched hard to activate the burst stoppers, rendering problems with Bearing’s weak spring null.

Well yes(and thank you for responding KINDLY), I guess you would have to hard launch here because of the burst risk, even though you're going opposite spin. Although this supposedly puts you at risk of KO. But on the wiki it always says that opposite spin beys spinning at similar speeds work like gears and reduce recoil?

If your Burst resistor and Burst stopper layers are bursting in your tests, you are doing something wrong. Either you aren't using the right discs, aren't launching hard enough to activate stoppers, or are launching Judgement long after the other bey is launched. Your tests are flawed.

Uh, I thought the whole point of going opposite spin on Bearing involved the weak launch? Why are you questioning the fact that the Burst stoppers aren't out?

Opposite Spin bearing's idea is to win with LAD. You wouldn't weak launch because all Bearing layers, except Balkesh B3, are too wide to spin steal effectively.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

Uh, I thought the whole point of going opposite spin on Bearing involved the weak launch? Why are you questioning the fact that the Burst stoppers aren't out?

Opposite Spin bearing's idea is to win with LAD. You wouldn't weak launch because all Bearing layers, except Balkesh B3, are too wide to spin steal effectively.

I think your logic is completely backwards. Weak launching makes your Bey less susceptible to Burst, which is a problem with Bearing, and wider Layers generally have an easier time Spin-Stealing because they get hit more often, therefore you have to be more careful with your launch power. Balkesh B3 wouldn't have to worry about launch power nearly as much because it has really good Burst Resistance for a Bearing combo.

Opposite Spin bearing's idea is to win with LAD. You wouldn't weak launch because all Bearing layers, except Balkesh B3, are too wide to spin steal effectively.

I think your logic is completely backwards. Weak launching makes your Bey less susceptible to Burst, which is a problem with Bearing, and wider Layers generally have an easier time Spin-Stealing because they get hit more often, therefore you have to be more careful with your launch power. Balkesh B3 wouldn't have to worry about launch power nearly as much because it has really good Burst Resistance for a Bearing combo.

Very much this. If anything spinning slower in an opposite-spin matchup increases your odds of bursting your opponent on top of boosting your own burst defense. The Anime even brings this up several times regarding Drain Fafnir, and it's true-to-life.

Though Cho-Z Spriggan can likely match the burst resistance of a slower spin with its burst stoppers, it does lose some burst attack power in the process (not that it usually applies to Judgement, though it can in other matchups).

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Cincinnati-based Organizer, and owner of every single currently released TT Burst bey part in at least one color. Hard to think of anything I don't have from MFB either...

Opposite Spin bearing's idea is to win with LAD. You wouldn't weak launch because all Bearing layers, except Balkesh B3, are too wide to spin steal effectively.

I think your logic is completely backwards. Weak launching makes your Bey less susceptible to Burst, which is a problem with Bearing, and wider Layers generally have an easier time Spin-Stealing because they get hit more often, therefore you have to be more careful with your launch power. Balkesh B3 wouldn't have to worry about launch power nearly as much because it has really good Burst Resistance for a Bearing combo.

It's opposite spin, so bursting is already at a low chance.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

I couldn't answer that right now because I don't own the Judgment layer. I won't have that answer until the weekend at the earliest, when I see my friend and can examine his piece.

You've got the gall to call Judgement overpowered, and even want it to be banned... but you don't even have it? Surely you must be joking.

Current common Bearing layers (ChoZ Spriggan, Lord Spriggan, Balkesh) all have their own way to mitigate burst risk. Weak launching is no longer a must, and in ChoZ Spriggan's case, I'd rather get the burst stoppers out just in case.

I also believe Judgment is not something we need to ban, since there are a lot of ways to counter it. Some player just has not adapted to it yet, especially those who are still comfortable with ChoZ's stamina/defense meta (like I was).

I couldn't answer that right now because I don't own the Judgment layer. I won't have that answer until the weekend at the earliest, when I see my friend and can examine his piece.

You've got the gall to call Judgement overpowered, and even want it to be banned... but you don't even have it? Surely you must be joking.

I traded my piece off because I generally don't enjoy playing with it. I'm re-purchasing the red Pegasus version though, to up my chances of victory whenever I may play in deck format.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

Lord seems to be a better base, and judgement seems to be easily beaten by something like lord, or perfect phoenix with relative ease

Judgement is definitely powerful, but I don't think it's something that needs to be banned. Like you've said, on the proper setup (generally a rubber Dash Driver like X' or Qc') it does have the potential to defeat any opponent if you have the skill to launch it well consistently, but that is the kind of confidence with attack and launching skill that the WBO aims to reward in competitive play. While stationary variants may not require as much skill as the X'/Qc' ones, they have more natural and clear-cut weaknesses. And even then, there are several types of combos that stand a significantly better chance against Judgement, though none of them are totally invulnerable.

- Zwei on Jolt' (but Dm' or probably any other rubber Dash Driver will work) can consistently beat it attack vs attack just because Judgement takes enormous amounts of both types of recoil (even compared to Zwei) and Zwei hits lower and outweighs it. Stationary Judgement combos like Xt+ or Octa are especially susceptible to this since their KO Defense is significantly worse (as well as Judgement on X').
- Combos that are specialized for KO Defense and use Unite/Keep are also among the best picks against Judgement, especially when used in opposite spin* so they can weak launch to reduce the strength of Judgement's attacks even further. These are a bit niche however, and are probably best saved for Deck Format.
-Lastly, any opposite spin Stamina combo with a greater amount of Life After Death (generally left spin C.Xt+ or W.Br) than the Judgment combo can defeat both stationary and mobile Judgement by weak launching* against it. This type generally has a better chance against stationary setups as those lack the KOing power that X' or Qc' does and are less likely to burst just due to the nature of the opposite spin matchup, though it's the easiest to KO/Burst out of the 3 "counters" I've suggested.

The above is all based on my testing experience, as well as the accounts of others. In my personal tournament experience I have used hS.00W.H and ZF.10G.Jl' against Judgement combos on multiple occasions and never given up a point to it.

*Weak launching in opposite spin is kind of a weird dynamic with CzS, because if you weak launch you can't activate the Burst Stoppers, but if you hard launch you become easier to KO. While hard launching is mandatory on the semi(?)-well known CzS.00.Kp combo so it can sustain all the rotational recoil it will take, using Lord instead removes this issue, effectively making CzS obsolete.

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In general, before calling out for a ban, your first question should be "is there a way to go against judgment?"

If no one is able to give an answer, then *maybe* start thinking of a ban.

Agreed with Wombat's point.

Judgment's main weakness is opposite-spin combos with better LAD. You can easily counter it with (left) Lord on Xtend+ or Atomic.
There is still a small chance of KO, but the chances shouldn't be high if you launched lightly.

When Judgment contacts other beys, it does induce a high recoil on them. However, it also does induce recoil on itself, making it likely that it causes a self-KO.
This is more apparent if you use Judgment as stamina, using drivers such as Orbit or Atomic. Pure attack setups using Qc' or X' will be less likely to self-KO due to their movement, having the inertia to prevent the recoil force from pushing it backwards and inflicting a self-KO.

I think opposite spin Bearing on CzS needs to be launched hard to activate the burst stoppers, rendering problems with Bearing’s weak spring null.

I'm pretty sure it's ALMOST null... judgement and union can probably knock it back in (I'm not sure about the consistency though).
Edit: Maybe union can do it only when facing right spin CzS.

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2 Versus 2 format should be a thing. Change my mind.

I think your logic is completely backwards. Weak launching makes your Bey less susceptible to Burst, which is a problem with Bearing, and wider Layers generally have an easier time Spin-Stealing because they get hit more often, therefore you have to be more careful with your launch power. Balkesh B3 wouldn't have to worry about launch power nearly as much because it has really good Burst Resistance for a Bearing combo.

It's opposite spin, so bursting is already at a low chance.

The purpose of the soft launch is to minimize the chances of bursting in case something like Judgement Valkyrie Blitz Xtend+ comes along. Trust me, hard launching against that could be disastrous, especially if your opponent soft-launches. The moment that you're going significantly faster than an opposite-spin opponent with Bearing, your chances of winning go way down.

I play a lot of Beyblade despite my relative inactivity, and the one and only piece that feels genuinely unfair is Judgment. To have a layer in the meta that has no actual counters is going to stagnate the meta game of Beyblade. Archer Hercules, Poison Diabolos, Orb Egis, Perfect Phoenix, Lord Spriggan, Cho Z Spriggan, Wizard Fafnir, and even Zwei Longinus can't compete against the layer.

Don't get me wrong, Judgment doesn't win every game, but that's because it's prone to self KO. No other piece stands against it as a viable competitor. Zwei Longinus definitely feels like it's the closest thing to a decent match-up, but it is still prone to bursting and losing to burst priority even when it gets the KO. Judgment on the other hand will not burst from impacts against Zwei, given it has a half decent combination going for it.

Judgment, on top of feeling as if it is the most difficult layer to compete against, also seems to have a bizarre amount of versatility. It works flawlessly as an attack layer or a stamina layer. If it holds the center against other stamina types it will almost definitely repel them to a KO, or deliver such repeated impacts which fail to KO that it will burst them. No other piece gives a person this level of control.

Judgment is already running around constantly at tournament play, especially once you get to the top 8. It should be obvious that it's not just good, but genuinely the best in the game. I have real concerns about Beyblade becoming nothing but Judgment vs Judgment matches, because why throw a match away if you're in it to win? I plan to start playing Judgment because after a sizable amount of testing, I'm not really left with a choice. It's the only layer in the game that does all the work for you and has no counter play. Spin and Win, regardless of what your opponent has.

I hold the belief that for the good of the game, Judgment should be banned. People were concerned about Lord and Bearing being too much to handle, but Judgment disposes of both of those parts with ease.

I personally disagree. We have a very balanced meta right now where Zwei beats Judgement and left spin stamina, Judgment beats right spin stamina and some left spin. Archer beats Lord and Zwei, lord is and all around safe combo and B3 Will mostly counter right spin stamina and most of right spin. If we take Jugement away, We're back in the Stamina is domanat hole.

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Hey all, professional noob blader here. I enjoyed participating in the fighting of exploding spinning tops while pretending I know how inertia works. I will generally partake in gatherings of people with a similar interest of these rotating objects around the Greater Toronto Area (GTA). My favourite combos are essentially anything purple, gold, and sometimes a nice purl white. I don’t know how to make a cool banner so who those who actually know how this site works please feel free to message me about how I should know how to at this point lol.  

Judgement while it is one of the most OP Bases in the meta it has just one weakness...... and thats its weak side

Not to be rude, but can we please stop with this kind of logic? There is no such thing as a "weak side". Although that's intended, the anime doesn't even reference it. In order to make a bey skip a tooth, both ends of the disc have to move. Therefore, hitting the "weak side" still uses the burst stopper. Even if this was an actual thing, I don't see anyone's Judgement bursting often enough for this to be an issue.

you make a point but what if you didnt use a ' driver and say it hits said "weak side" and loses

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PFP: Baby picture of me and one of my irl friends / ANY PRONOUNS