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Hell Aquario H145R2F: Hell strikes back?

Nov. 18, 2011  9:21 AM
 
Well, that's good news. Smile
Well, any reasons for terming it 'inconsistent'? I mean, what are the factors which make it inconsistent?
Nov. 18, 2011  9:27 AM
 
Hell doesn't have great smash all the way around, so if you don't hit with the right part, it doesn't do that much.

It could just be my launch, remember, I'm rusty.
Nov. 18, 2011  9:31 AM
 
Ah, thanks for that.
So, the inconsistency doesn't really affect Hell in a bad way (self-KOs/HUGE stamina loss due to recoil), right?
If this is the case, then I believe this combo won't be 'risky' to use.
Nov. 18, 2011  9:37 AM
 
Oh, it is a little risky, it's still got a lot of recoil. MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS is a huge challenge for any attacker to take down (as it should be, it is basically the top defensive combination), but this does better than most attackers.
I didn't get to play with it enough to really work out everything, as I've got other things to try and my launcher handle came off.

I may have been mistaken on my launch being messed up looking at other results with variares etc in more detail.
Nov. 26, 2011  7:24 AM
 
seems like Hell is really on the comeback, just something to point out, try MF Hell Libra 100 R2F with 200% power launch and control, fun fun fun. I feel Libra is better than any other CW for Hell, just my 2 cents
Nov. 26, 2011  4:40 PM
 
(Nov. 26, 2011  7:24 AM)Izuma Inzori Wrote: seems like Hell is really on the comeback, just something to point out, try MF Hell Libra 100 R2F with 200% power launch and control, fun fun fun. I feel Libra is better than any other CW for Hell, just my 2 cents

Is there any scientifically reason why you feel it would be better than any normal clear wheel? Hell covers most clear wheels from attacking, so i'm not quite sure what you are talking about; however, I'll try it out when i get the time.
Nov. 26, 2011  4:52 PM
 
EDIT: Derp, as per hazel's post below, Aquario is the best choice here. Neutral distribution means it works well with Hell and H145.

Inazuma Inzori: I wouldn't call it a comeback, this is probably the only combo it's any real use in given recent releases, and I'd still rather use something like MF-F Phantom Cancer AD145RF, or even Variares.
Nov. 26, 2011  8:33 PM
 
Aquario pushes extra weight into the H145 contact points that a 3-sided CW would unequally distribute... didn't you just explain something similar about BD145 elsewhere today, th!nk?
Nov. 27, 2011  6:34 AM
 
So far I find this to be a pretty good
Combo. List out what you guys want me to test and I'll test it for you
(Nov. 26, 2011  4:52 PM)th!nk Wrote: Given the weight distribution I would stick with a 3-sided CW, to help focus the weight, though I have no issue with Aquario, as it is basically neutral, so it works with almost anything.

Inazuma Inzori: I wouldn't call it a comeback, this is probably the only combo it's any real use in given recent releases, and I'd still rather use something like MF-F Phantom Cancer AD145RF, or even Variares.
Given you stated that, which should I use? I usually use unicorno instead of Aquario, although Aquario is there to reduce recoil...

Nov. 27, 2011  10:04 AM
 
(Nov. 26, 2011  8:33 PM)Hazel Wrote: Aquario pushes extra weight into the H145 contact points that a 3-sided CW would unequally distribute... didn't you just explain something similar about BD145 elsewhere today, th!nk?

Admittedly, I completely blanked on H145 when I made that post, I was half asleep at the time.

@Powerangeryan: Stick with Aquario as per hazel's post.
Nov. 27, 2011  12:33 PM
 
I tested it against MF-H basalt kerbecs 230 CS. The results were only 40%... but the again, it was just a simple test and I didn't really use sliding shot. I'll do a proper test tommorow when I'm free
Nov. 27, 2011  12:41 PM
 
What was the condition of your CS?
This combo is quite risky, so you may get 40% results at times...
But, not consistently. You'll get better results soon.
Nov. 27, 2011  12:51 PM
 
Ya. I just tested once more. This time it was 60%
Dec. 04, 2011  11:45 AM
 
perhaps you should test it with rf and other attack tracks perhaps wd145 i knew this was good i had the ecat smae horn 145 and inferno theroy as you
Dec. 04, 2011  12:06 PM
 
Well, that's probably a wrong suggestion.
First off, this combo depends on H145 for most of its strikes, so changing it to another track would not be appreciable.
Then, WD145 sucks for attack. So even that is a wrong suggestion.
R²F is superior to RF in all aspects, and so choosing an RF over R²F is only if you need more control.
Dec. 04, 2011  3:47 PM
 
I don't see how rf is inferior to r2f. For certain combos involving beat, you need a deep bank. R2f looses speed when deep banked, whereas rf keeps its speed. In some cases rf is better. Imo
Dec. 04, 2011  3:52 PM
 
This combo needs everything it can get in terms of speed, and R2F is the faster of the two tips.
Dec. 05, 2011  7:28 AM
 
(Dec. 04, 2011  12:06 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Well, that's probably a wrong suggestion.
First off, this combo depends on H145 for most of its strikes, so changing it to another track would not be appreciable.
Then, WD145 sucks for attack. So even that is a wrong suggestion.
R²F is superior to RF in all aspects, and so choosing an RF over R²F is only if you need more control.

Mc Smile seems to like WD145 for Attack, although I have no experience with it.

I prefer RF in general not because it's easier to control, (I find a mint R2F easier to control than a mint RF) but because I prefer the extra Stamina. From my tests, I assume I get all the necessary power to use my Attack Types as successfully as they can be, so the versatility of RF is definitely notable.
Dec. 05, 2011  2:09 PM
 
Well, there are many people who would go for an RF in place of R²F, for the added stamina.
But as th!nk said, speed is important for this combo. Also, speed is usually important for every attacker.
What you said is correct, but the actual purpose served by the two rubber bottoms, i.e. superb speed makes R²F superior.
As for versatility, RF is the jack of all trades, and a master of none. Agreed that it offers almost equal speed, but the added speed of R²F makes it superior to RF in most cases. RF reminds me of Hell. It had everything; Attack, Defense, and Stamina. But it failed to excel in any, except for stamina. Same goes for RF, it excelled in attack before R²F and LRF became 'speedier' options. Smile
The phrase 'all aspects' in my post is wrong, though. I should have said, 'for attack'. Smile

I do not say RF is bad, just that R²F is usually better.
Dec. 05, 2011  2:14 PM
 
I personally tried this combo on RF, and it didn't work out as well as R2F did, for me.

It really is quite useless, or at the very least counter-productive, without the speed granted by R2F.
Dec. 06, 2011  10:28 AM
 
Hm, ive been using this so far on a RF and I've been quite satisfied. I find that it does not lack speed at all, but perhaps it is because of the condition of my RF.and... I'm quite amazed with this! I got into the finals of a tournament with it!
Dec. 30, 2013  5:29 AM
 
why would you test it against bd145 mb it's not good?
Dec. 30, 2013  5:30 AM
 
(Dec. 30, 2013  5:29 AM)bladery66 Wrote: why would you test it against bd145 mb it's not good?

Woah, big necro. Bd145mb wasn't bad back in the day, but CS was better (for defence I mean).
Dec. 30, 2013  5:31 AM
 
You do know you're posting in a 2-year-old topic right? It was a good combo back in the day and also, I don't think we had that many good parts back then. Or did you forget it's from 2-years-ago, haha....
Dec. 30, 2013  12:01 PM
 
While it's a necro, I figure it's worth giving a full explanation (if only because I was reminiscing about it yesterday and this was one of the threads where I mentioned it):

BD145MB was a popular setup for Basalt back then, the idea being that as MB was the heaviest tip and Basalt a compact wheel, it would act like weight based defense from plastics (also partially based in the incorrect perception that (metal) ball tips were good for defense in the plastic era (which is generally wrong, as they don't catch the tornado ridge well, unlike change tips which have the same versatility movement wise but stick to the tornado ridge like glue when hit towards it - MFB's main Change shaped tip being CS).

In reality, it only worked because Basalt BD145 was so stupidly heavy that attack types of the time just bounced off it, and IMO all MB did better than CS was outspin the CS variant and be a testament to how stupidly broken Basalt and BD145 were for their time, oh and as I mentioned in this very thread, MB did help against BD145 Attackers because it was taller and therefore hit opposing BD145's more, limiting contact.

I was a rather outspoken critic of it (something I alluded to less than subtly in this very thread), and as I see it I was completely vindicated as soon as Fang was released, as MF-H Fang (Counter Mode) Kerbecs R145RF smacks the MB version around like nothing, but does very little to the CS version.
This combo is kinda similar though potentially stronger (my concerns about its inconsistency remain after retrying it now) so CS's superiority isn't as noticeable - as I said back when this thread came up, this is one of the few combos from before Blitz (or Variares if you didn't get one afflicted by suck like I did) that can actually do a decent job of KOing Basalt BD145CS - another in the long list of reasons why Hell is banned in Limited Format, haha.

Any further responses etc should be taken to PM's, as this thread is over two years old at this point, I just couldn't help indulging myself in reminiscence (sorry!)
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