World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Hasbro Shogun Steel Samurai Cyclone Stadium Comparative Results!

Jun. 20, 2013  4:44 PM
 
As I posted in the General Hasbro Topic, I just purchased the Shogun Steel Samurai Cyclone Battle Set. One of my initial observations was that Hasbro's version of the Zero-G Stadium Balance Type is naturally imbalanced, as can be seen on this photograph :
[Image: HasbroZeroGstadium1.jpg]

The printed design in red is oddly right into the play area, but it might be completely negligible because it is barely noticeable to touch. My Bottoms do not have any paint residue for the moment either, unlike what happens with Hasbro's previous BEYBLADE: Metal Fusion/Metal Masters/Metal Fury BeyStadiums.


For the comparative results, it might have been more appropriate to compare TAKARA-TOMY's Zero-G Stadium Balance Type since it also has two exits all on one side, but I do not have it. As such, I used the Zero-G Stadium Attack Type, with three exits.

On the subject of the combinations used for the comparison, I simply went to Kei's suggested top-tier list topic for Zero-G in the Advanced Forum and made what I could with the parts I had. Since what we wanted to test was the stadium's ability to reproduce a similar Zero-G Attack phenomenon as in TAKARA-TOMY's stadium, I prepared one (potential) top-tier customization each for Zero-G Attack, Defense, and Stamina. Last time, Kei had tested Hasbro's Pegasus Thunder Whip Stadium simply between Attack types and Stamina types, and it turned out that it was enough to prove that Hasbro's BeyStadiums (and the many more to come) were too Stamina-biased compared to TAKARA-TOMY's. Since that was Hasbro's tendency at least up until now, I mainly wanted to prove or disprove this trend in Zero-G/Shogun Steel now.


Here are the results then, followed by my observational notes and conclusions at the bottom :


MSF Girago Wyvang SP230GCF versus MF Duo Aquario SA165EWD

Benchmark in TAKARA-TOMY's Zero-G Stadium Attack Type :
MSF Girago Wyvang SP230GCF won 100% of the battles.

1. Knock-out
2. Knock-out
3. Knock-out
4. Knock-out
5. Knock-out
6. Knock-out
7. Knock-out
8. Outspin
9. Knock-out
10. Knock-out
11. Knock-out
12. Outspin
13. Knock-out
14. Knock-out
15. Knock-out
16. Outspin
17. Knock-out
18. Knock-out
19. Outspin
20. Knock-out from the top !

----In Hasbro Shogun Steel Stadium----
Girago Wyvang won 95% of the matches.

1. Girago Wyvang outspin (pockets came into contact with floor)
2. Girago Wyvang outspin (Zero-G Attack did happen)
3. Girago Wyvang by pocket-in (some slight Zero-G Attack happened)
4. Duo by out-spin and Girago Wyvang going straight into the pocket
5. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some slight Zero-G Attack happened)
6. Girago Wyvang by outspin because Duo went straight into the pocket
7. Girago Wyvang by outspin (pockets came into contact with floor at least five times; someone sleeping downstairs would have really been annoyed as it quite knocked on the wood of the floor)
8. Girago Wyvang by outspin
9. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some slight Zero-G Attack happened, but it was mostly Duo spinning around wildly)
10. Girago Wyvang by outspin
11. Girago Wyvang by pocket-in (some clear Zero-G Attack did happen)
12. Girago Wyvang by pocket-in (some clear Zero-G Attack did happen)
13. Girago Wyvang by outspin
14. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some clear Zero-G Attack did happen)
15. Girago Wyvang by outspin
16. Girago Wyvang by outspin (pockets knocked on the floor with every passing of Girago Wyvang on that side)
17. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some clear Zero-G Attack happened but with Duo spinning around wildly)
18. Girago Wyvang by outspin (Duo almost got pocketed)
19. Girago Wyvang by pocket-in upon launch
20. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some Zero-G Attack happened)



These results are very, very positive for the whole Beyblade community ! I am a usually 'low' Attack type user, so I was rather impressed that I even got Girago Wyvang to work so much in the Zero-G Stadium Attack Type, and that it could be reproduced to an extent in Hasbro's BeyStadium.

As you can see from the descriptive results, Girago Wyvang did not win at all in the same manner as in TAKARA-TOMY's BeyStadiums, but it still won the vast majority of its battles, with some sort of Zero-G attack (sway).

The matches in TAKARA-TOMY's stadium were purely awesome, clearly the reason why everyone should play Zero-G, with Girago Wyvang circling the stadium wildly and making Duo come out of the stadium's centre for a quick knock-out, but in Hasbro's stadium, it was actually oddly Girago Wyvang taking a place in the middle and somehow making Duo go around the stadium wildly instead. Anyway, performing these rounds really made me want to make a video "Why Zero-G is so awesome" or something like that.

The pockets did not really work well at all. The exits are very smooth in TAKARA-TOMY's Zero-G Stadiums, but Hasbro made their pockets really 'encased' and 'fortified' I suppose, so Duo often knocked on the pockets' sides and got back into the stadium, but that rather worried me about my Bottoms, especially since EWD is not very easy to find ... The pockets are also rather annoying, as I wrote, because they litterally knock on the floor several times in a battle, but there is also a chance that they do not hit the floor at all ...



So, what do you think ? Girago Wyvang did win in a comparable and reasonable proportion to what it does in TAKARA-TOMY's Zero-G Stadiums, but is it 'acceptable' that it was a lot more by outspin than by pocket-in ? This would probably mean that actual, more traditional Attack Types for Zero-G would not do too well in Hasbro's stadium, and we would rely only on Zero-G Attack to act as Attack.
Jun. 20, 2013  4:47 PM
 
These are good tests! I should buy the Samurai Cyclone Battle Set. Thanks Kai-V!
Jun. 20, 2013  5:28 PM
 
You said that Girago Wyvang won by OS the majority of the times in the Hasbro Stadium? So although the Winrate is similar against EWD, it is much more difficult to KO something in the Hasbro Zero-G stadium. This could be problematic against something with SB that otherwise, in a TT Zero-G Stadium would get KOed, but not in a Hasbro. I'm assuming the side of EWD came in contact with the Hasbro Stadium and that is how Wyvang outspun. SB does not have a broad surface area, so would Wyvang not be able to KO or OS it? Can you test something like. Girago Wyvang SP230GCF vs Duo Aquario SA165SB in both Stadiums?

Thanks so much for the tests!
Jun. 20, 2013  5:53 PM
 
Hmmm.... I don't know. Meow! does have a point.

Sorry to pile on another test, but could you please test against Duo Cancer SA165 WB in Hasbro's stadium? I find it to be an excellent benchmark in the BBG-04(I use MF-H and AD145 though), so I'm quite interested to see how WB will do, since it isn't too hard to sway, but not too easy, like EWD.
Jun. 20, 2013  6:01 PM
 
It's more promising that I thought! If I get my set in before my next tournament I'll be sure to monitor how well free-play pans out in the stadium.

Also, agreed on Zero-G being awesome. I can't imagine running a regular tournament again. While it's always fun battling in a BB-10, battling and WATCHING a battle are way more exciting in Zero-G Smile
Jun. 20, 2013  6:13 PM
 
Good to hear the paint doesnt ruin tips! And the overall results are looking promising.
Jun. 20, 2013  6:36 PM
 
So, can this be used for testing?
Jun. 20, 2013  6:46 PM
 
So, this is essentially Pegasus Thunder Whip Zero-G Ver.? The problem with KOing is still present, but it's slightly less Stamina-biased this time around.

(Jun. 20, 2013  4:44 PM)Kai-V Wrote: One of my initial observations was that Hasbro's version of the Zero-G Stadium Balance Type is naturally imbalanced, as can be seen on this photograph :

TAKARA-TOMY's Zero-G Stadium Balance Type is actually slightly imbalanced as well, but this is a non-issue because there are no overhanging pockets that cause the sway of the stadium to be interrupted like there is on this stadium.

(Jun. 20, 2013  4:44 PM)Kai-V Wrote: As you can see from the descriptive results, Girago Wyvang did not win at all in the same manner as in TAKARA-TOMY's BeyStadiums, but it still won the vast majority of its battles, with some sort of Zero-G attack (sway).

This is a huge problem. I agree with Meow!. It's great that Girago Wyvang was able to do what it did to EWD, but it probably won't be able to reproduce those same results against Bottoms that are not so easily swayed. It might also have more trouble with Synchromed Wheels, since they are much heavier than Duo. And without the ability to KO its opponent, how will it win?

I'm interested in seeing how Attack types versus B:D (in the same spin direction) fare. B:D won't be thrown around as easily as EWD was, and because there are no exits, B:D shouldn't have much to fear anymore.
Jun. 20, 2013  8:40 PM
 
I think Hasbro has got on the right path with this stadium! I'm thinking of getting it when it comes out near me!
Jun. 20, 2013  9:40 PM
 
I'm not all that surprised. TBH, I didn't think the pockets would be useful for traditional KOs. I'd think the shock from colliding with the pockets would be enough to let even low-stamina Attackers OS stamina types. I'm sure that collisions on the pocket "walls" would eat a HUGE chunk of stamina. Plus, the presence (although light) of ZG Attack at all should be positive. Well, it is as far as I am concerned.
Jun. 21, 2013  4:29 PM
 
I really don't like that results

I believe this stadium could be taken by Zero G Defense with plastic bottoms (BSF/SF/TB/BWD for example) because it doesn't sway that good, but with synchroms would also be more difficult!, the unbalance will affect in some ways but no has much has the pockets, the pockets now not only make difficult to ko, it alters the gimmick itself

I might be wrong but I don't see how this could be near to competitive
Jun. 21, 2013  4:45 PM
 
Here is, as requested by Meow!, MSF Girago Wyvang SP230GCF versus MF Duo Aquario SA165SB :

Benchmark results in TAKARA-TOMY's Zero-G Stadium Attack Type :
Girago Wyvang won 35%.
1. Girago Wyvang by knock-out upon launch
2. Duo by outspin
3. Duo by self-knock-out
4. Girago Wyvang by outspin
5. Duo by outspin
6. Duo by outspin
(Tie)
7. Girago Wyvang by Duo's SB separating
8. Girago Wyvang by outspin
9. Duo by outspin
10. Girago Wyvang by knock-out
11. Duo by outspin
12. Duo by outspin
(Tie)
13. Duo by outspin
14. Duo by outspin
15. Girago Wyvang by outspin
16. Duo by outspin
17. Duo by outspin
18. Girago Wyvang by outspin
19. Duo by outspin
20. Duo by self-knock-out


---- In Hasbro's Shogun Steel stadium ----
Girago Wyvang won 20%.
1. Duo by outspin (Girago Wyvang's extreme weight placed it constantly on the pockets side, and Duo did not move much thanks to SB)
2. Girago Wyvang by outspin (they just knocked on each other, the stadium had nothing to do with it)
3. Duo by outspin
(Tie - again, Girago Wyvang's weight placed it always on the pockets side, not allowing much Zero-G Attack)
4. Duo by outspin
5. Duo by outspin
6. Duo by outspin
7. Duo by outspin
8. Duo by outspin
9. Girago Wyvang by outspin
10. Duo by outspin
11. Duo by outspin
12. Duo by outspin
13. Duo by outspin
14. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some Zero-G Attack finally happened)
15. Girago Wyvang by outspin (some Zero-G Attack did happen, and Duo hit the walls of the pockets slightly)
16. Duo by outspin
17. Duo by outspin
18. Duo by outspin
19. Duo by outspin
20. Duo by outspin


It is not complicated : Duo was simply moving late in reaction to Girago Wyvang's weight tilting the stadium towards the pockets or not, but that meant that while Girago Wyvang was naturally ascending back as far as it could (which is barely beyond the medium line of the centre) Duo was doing the contrary reacting to where Girago Wyvang's weight pushed the stadium just a second ago, going downwards, so the two almost never hit each other until it was a Stamina battle. Girago Wyvang essentially followed this pattern :
[Image: HasbroShogunSteelStadiumPattern.jpg]

The pockets hit the floor everytime in these battles ... Hasbro's designers must have always tried this stadium on carpet or something, because this is a huge issue that should have been noticed prior to the final release.

To make the results be as representative as possible, I let the stadium rotate its pockets on its own with the movement of the battles, so I think the rare times that Girago Wyvang won was because I launched it at one specific point in the stadium ...
Jun. 21, 2013  5:39 PM
 
Again, the results' circumstances are different, but the results are not too wildly off. I won't say that it isn't something to be concerned with, but I think the pockets would make heavy combos that much more useful, including heavy attack combos. I'm not sure what that would mean, but I'll go with Inguilt's assessment. If all of the base types work the way they are supposed to, then I don't see much of an issue. That said, these pockets look like they might be annoying.
Jun. 21, 2013  9:13 PM
 
So with the rwmoval of the pockets, would this Stadium act just like a Balance Stadium? Because if I can get my hands on one id be willing to cut the pockets (Obviosly ill be doing it so its "mmatches" the Balance type stadium. With precision tools)
Jun. 21, 2013  9:20 PM
 
You would have to cut an angle into the walls of the pockets too, because cutting the bottom would leave the rest to still hit the floor.
Jun. 29, 2013  8:52 PM
 
I did some tests with this. I hate that pockets weigh down that one side so much. It made using sway attackers so much harder. Anyways here is the tests:

Reviser Reviser E230BSF vs. Wyvang Killerken SP230CF
Spoiler (Click to View)

I was hoping for some more awesome sway action but this stadium did not sway that much. When it actually did, the sway attacker KOed itself.
Jun. 29, 2013  9:51 PM
 
Eight wins against BSF, in any Zero-G stadium, with a sway attacker, is really awesome! BSF usually gets 80-100% against sway attack!
Jun. 29, 2013  10:12 PM
 
Except all of the wins were by OS except for one, so clearly Wyvang was not swaying well.
Jun. 29, 2013  10:16 PM
 
Except in a BBG-04 BSF would always OS if not smash KO'd.

Tri, is there a chance you could film a video of a couple rounds of the same battle? I'm quite interested to see how the wins play out.
Jun. 29, 2013  10:45 PM
 
Yes, I could when I get back to my moms tomorrow.
Jul. 24, 2013  5:48 PM
 
Can we see a side by side comparison of both stadiums? I would like to get an idea just how much smaller or larger Hasbro's play area is as compared to your Attack Zero G stadium.
Jul. 26, 2013  1:23 AM
 
(Jul. 24, 2013  5:48 PM)LeonTempestXIII Wrote: Can we see a side by side comparison of both stadiums? I would like to get an idea just how much smaller or larger Hasbro's play area is as compared to your Attack Zero G stadium.
I found a video o the comparison of the 2 (Cyclone stadium and Zero g attack).
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S5YF5_wZm-I
Jul. 26, 2013  4:44 AM
 
Zero-g attack looks to be the best stadium.
Jul. 26, 2013  6:00 AM
 
(Jul. 26, 2013  1:23 AM)Thunder Dome Wrote:
(Jul. 24, 2013  5:48 PM)LeonTempestXIII Wrote: Can we see a side by side comparison of both stadiums? I would like to get an idea just how much smaller or larger Hasbro's play area is as compared to your Attack Zero G stadium.
I found a video o the comparison of the 2 (Cyclone stadium and Zero g attack).
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S5YF5_wZm-I

Having some odd trouble loading that, but I was able to see parts of it. Thank you. Definetly will invest in the Zero-G Attack Stadium all things considered.
Dec. 22, 2013  3:56 AM
 
I just noticed this. I would love to see some more extensive testing on it (especially from someone who has removed the pockets neatly), as those results were actually really good IMO. Mostly making this in case anyone who has bought it since hadn't seen the thread, but still, I am very much encouraged by those results.
Page 1
Next