I figure this could go under general too...but I'm not too sure.

This discussion originated on the smashboards.

Opening arguement
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?...ostcount=1

My rebuttal
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?...stcount=43

As in a true debate, read both sides, then post. I'm curious as to see what the WBO membership has to think about this.

There is no risk to visiting smashboards, BTW, no spyware or anything. You don't need to sign up to read the posts.

Post your thoughts, weather it be a personal opinion on the matter, or a rebuttal to either me or the original poster.

I THINK BEYBLADE SHOULD BE AT THE OLYMPICS

I THINK BEYBLADE SHOULD BE AT THE OLYMPICS

Did you even read the arguements?
Fastest reply ever BTW.

ahahaha here's fragbait's ridiculous argument if you don't want to bother clicking

Incorrect sir. My High School research project was over gaming as a sport, and Encyclopedia Brittanica defines sport as
Competitive activity played in individually or in a team.

All of my 3 judges (including community leaders and teachers) agreed with my statement of Gaming (when organized) as a sport, which in turn classifies competitive gamers as Sports players.
Also, referencing your own def. of Athlete, while a Smash Player does not use all three aspects of athleticism, 2 of three are used, and 66% is still a majority. Also, those were referenced as general aspects, but not explicitly defined as athletic aspects. Therefore, by the specific part of the definition, which was
involving the use of physical skills or capabilities
Well, you have to have the physical skill to use the controller in order to perform what you want to. Muscle memory and dexterity are also physical skills.
Also, all sports as you define them are also games. Now, of course, I'm not saying the opposite is true, but doesn't that also make Athletes, professional Gamers? Since we define gamers as anyone who takes gaming seriously.
Furthermore, yes, you can tell the difference between NFL2k9 and real Football, as just playing NFL (or madden or whatever) isn't a sport, because sport also, requires competition, and competing with a CPU definatly isn't competion.
That's why ESPN and other sports outlets have begun covering gaming, such as MLG being covered by ESPN's camera crews, and having it's own Sportscenter top 10 show.

My arguement makes no sense without posting the opening arguement. But you didn't bother to post that, why?

hahaha that whole topic

Though I do think it should be pointed out that just because you aren't doing full-fledged tackles doesn't mean it doesn't involve agility or anything. There's a reason I'll play video games with people who rarely play games, and then after a half an hour they'll ask me how I can stand playing for so long so frequently because their hands hurt now.

It's because it does take stamina, strength, and agility, it's just that it's solely in the hands.

HALF AN HOUR OF VIDEO GAMING, WHY THIS MAN IS HERCULES HIMSELF

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Smash IS a sport.

If you're fingers are in bad shape you can't play well. You'll do really badly if you do something like climbing mountains the day before a tourney. Thats because it PHYSICALLY strains your HANDS.

So...
Does anyone with an informed opinion wanna chime in here?

hahaha fragbait you hypocrite

They did cover the MTG pro tour one year XD Card games are the only game I won't defend as sports.

so smash is a sport but magic the gathering isn't. nice

Sport is usually physical things and gaming isn't, so i disagree, i think gaming shouldn'nt be a sport.

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|Member of Elite Beyblade Team: The Prodigies|

|Official Prodigies YouTube Channel!|

hahaha fragbait you hypocrite



so smash is a sport but magic the gathering isn't. nice

Competition is meant to be as equal as possible. Magic isn't. MTG doesn't require any aspects of athleticism (don't confuse luck for skill). Most of card games are luck of the draw. That's why MTG, YGO, Poker, or any other card game, are almost undefendable as sports.

Sport is usually physical things and gaming isn't, so i disagree, i think gaming shouldn'nt be a sport.

Physical doesn't have to be running, throwing, tackling, etc. As mentioned in my arguments, physical includes Muscle Memory and Dexterity.

This is going to be an entertaining thread

So...
Does anyone with an informed opinion wanna chime in here?

You want an informed opinion? OK, here's my opinion. My opinion is that it is completely embarrassing that someone so immature, someone who is so focused on such trivial things, is allowed to have a child. That you would attempt to validate your meager accomplishments in a video game by equating them to actual athletes, instead of finding a more valuable way to spend your time.

My feeling is that sports require some sort of athleticism. Video gaming doesn't really require that, it's hard to equate pressing a diagonal angle and a button in a certain procession with being able to hit a ball at 90mph or other feats that are necessitated by most sports. In the same vein, I do not feel that chess or poker are sports either, which is explained in my next paragraph. But then again, I'm not so insecure as you and some others evidently are; I do not see the word "game" as being a derogatory statement, but as I said, I am not trying to validate trivial accomplishments.

It's also of my opinion -- and I realize that I can't back this up by typing in a word on dictionary.com and pasting the definition, so it may be invalid to you -- that a sport cannot be legally owned by a single entity; it is public domain.

That's my informed opinion.

Edit:

Competition is meant to be as equal as possible. Magic isn't. MTG doesn't require any aspects of athleticism (don't confuse luck for skill). Most of card games are luck of the draw. That's why MTG, YGO, Poker, or any other card game, are almost undefendable as sports.

So any video game where chance is a factor at all can also not be defined as a sport. So your argument is essentially reduced to, "I want the game I like to be considered a sport, but none of those other games."

You should also consider that chance exists in any physical interaction. Wind can affect sports outcomes. Beyblade, a game completely based in the physical realm with no "luck of the draw" aspects, is heavily reliant on chance. Hell, there's always a "chance" of a game misinterpreting your input. It is software, and yet it is somehow more reliable than physical, tangible objects.

You want an informed opinion? OK, here's my opinion. My opinion is that it is completely embarrassing that someone so immature, someone who is so focused on such trivial things, is allowed to have a child. That you would attempt to validate your meager accomplishments in a video game by equating them to actual athletes, instead of finding a more valuable way to spend your time.

My feeling is that sports require some sort of athleticism. Video gaming doesn't really require that, it's hard to equate pressing a diagonal angle and a button in a certain procession with being able to hit a ball at 90mph or other feats that are necessitated by most sports. In the same vein, I do not feel that chess or poker are sports either, which is explained in my next paragraph. But then again, I'm not so insecure as you and some others evidently are; I do not see the word "game" as being a derogatory statement, but as I said, I am not trying to validate trivial accomplishments.

It's also of my opinion -- and I realize that I can't back this up by typing in a word on dictionary.com and pasting the definition, so it may be invalid to you -- that a sport cannot be legally owned by a single entity; it is public domain.

That's my informed opinion.

Don't bring my personal life into this. This is meant as a friendly debate, not as personal attacks.
Read my above response to beykid.
The game itself isn't the sport, the competition is. That's like saying that the Football used to play the game is a sport.

The game itself isn't the sport, the competition is. That's like saying that the Football used to play the game is a sport.

No, it is not. In a game, you are not directly interacting with the elements of the game; you are sending actions to an avatar inside the game, an avatar that is a part of the game itself, in which the game interprets your commands, relays them to the avatar, and the avatar reacts accordingly.

And no, it is not like saying that. It is saying that the act of playing football is a sport.

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Don't bring my personal life into this. This is meant as a friendly debate, not as personal attacks.

One cannot make sense of an argument without first recognizing the context surrounding the argument.

1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
A sport is something which requires skill or physicall prowess. Smash would fall under the "skill" banner. Look at the highlighted sports. Racing, hunting and fishing. Hardly sports for which you need extensive physical prowess. In racing, it's all about your ability to steer, tactics, etc. In hunting, it's about marksmanship and possibly being able to lift a gun. In fishing, it's about... I don't really know what fishing it all about, but it doesn't require that much physical strength/"prowess" unless you're fishing for giant sharks or mega octopi or something.

This post made me laugh because he tries to make a point without any understanding of what he's dismissing. I'll also state that it's pretty lame and ignorant to equate card games to mere luck, as there is a great deal of strategy involved (and yes, even in poker).

Regardless of what you classify competitive gaming as, they will never hold a flame to traditional sports in the eyes of society. Considering that not only do you have to be strategic and quick-thinking in traditional sports, but also in remarkable physical condition as well, people will always recognize and respect a professional hockey player over someone who can play Smash Bros pretty well.

Moreover, there are limitations built within the medium of "e-sports" that traditional sports will never have to face. Competitive play in video games can be hindered by design flaws (bugs) and poor balancing, which are either impossible to fix (console games), or very difficult to fix and impossible to perfect (StarCraft, etc).

While you may argue (either successfully or unsuccessfully - most likely the latter) that it takes equivalent effort to become pro in let's say, soccer, compared to a video game, I'll state that maintaining a harmonious balance between you physical body (and not just your fingers), and your mental capacity is quite arduous, but a testament to what we are capable of as human beings.

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I'm Ommy
http://unqualify.blogspot.com

No, it is not. In a game, you are not directly interacting with the elements of the game; you are sending actions to an avatar inside the game, an avatar that is a part of the game itself, in which the game interprets your commands, relays them to the avatar, and the avatar reacts accordingly.

And no, it is not like saying that. It is saying that the act of playing football is a sport.

I was responding to the point that a game can't be owned by a single entity.
Being more specific, Yes, SORA LTD. does own Smash, the sole entity.
They don't own the competition.
One person or one organization can own a football, but they don't own the game that's played by it.
That's the point I was making.

Also, I see what you mean by your Avatar/Command arguement, however, the skill it takes to operate your avatar is the athletic portion. As in my above statement to Beykid, athleticism includes physical skill.

As for Ommy, I'll have to break this one down.

This post made me laugh because he tries to make a point without any understanding of what he's dismissing. I'll also state that it's pretty lame and ignorant to equate card games to mere luck, as there is a great deal of strategy involved (and yes, even in poker).

It was just a bit of an overstatement on my part, and I probably shouldn't say it's mere luck, but that's not what I said either. Yes, Card games (at least TCG) does take an incredible amount of skill in Deck building and playing at the right time, but even the best deck is useless without luck of the draw.
Poker also takes an immense amount of skill, in knowing odds, etc, but that's very much more than TCG/CCG luck.

Regardless of what you classify competitive gaming as, they will never hold a flame to traditional sports in the eyes of society. Considering that not only do you have to be strategic and quick-thinking in traditional sports, but also in remarkable physical condition as well, people will always recognize and respect a professional hockey player over someone who can play Smash Bros pretty well.

I can't argue against this. The perception in normal society that gaming can't be a sport heavily affect's peoples perception of it.

Moreover, there are limitations built within the medium of "e-sports" that traditional sports will never have to face. Competitive play in video games can be hindered by design flaws (bugs) and poor balancing, which are either impossible to fix (console games), or very difficult to fix and impossible to perfect (StarCraft, etc).

True, but all sports have had this issue over time.
Every sport has had rule changes, overhauls, and changes. To relate it to a gaming term, every sport has had many Patches

While you may argue (either successfully or unsuccessfully - most likely the latter) that it takes equivalent effort to become pro in let's say, soccer, compared to a video game, I'll state that maintaining a harmonious balance between you physical body (and not just your fingers), and your mental capacity is quite arduous, but a testament to what we are capable of as human beings.

Also can't argue this.
Thanks for your comments!

Hey guys, check out the athleticism in these words I'm typing! Muscle memory and agility!

Can we make typing competitions a real sport now?

This is ridiculous and childish.

Being more specific, Yes, SORA LTD. does own Smash, the sole entity.
They don't own the competition.
One person or one organization can own a football, but they don't own the game that's played by it.

Are you an idiot or do you actually realize these two things are polar opposites and refuse to acknowledge the important distinction there (well, that would also make you an idiot)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport Wikipedia says that this discussion has been done to death so much that there is no concrete definition anymore.

It takes skill to do a lot of things. It takes skill to act, to cook, and to memorize Shakespeare.

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I'm Ommy
http://unqualify.blogspot.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport Wikipedia says that this discussion has been done to death so much that there is no concrete definition anymore.

that doesn't mean people still won't make incredibly dumb arguments about it

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everything's a sport. we're all athletes. hurray us

Gaming as a sport would be boring just imagine a stadium of people watching a few people playing a video game, it wouldn't be very entertaining. Like sometimes if your playing a game with friends and you have to pass the controler on and you have to watch its not really fun. The crowd would be pretty much game fanatics, i probablly wouldn't want to watch that.

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|Member of Elite Beyblade Team: The Prodigies|

|Official Prodigies YouTube Channel!|

that doesn't mean people still won't make incredibly dumb arguments about it

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everything's a sport. we're all athletes. hurray us

You continue to prove you aren't at all understanding the argument I've made.
I won't respond to any further posts like this, I don't want to risk being called backseat mod.

Gaming as a sport would be boring just imagine a stadium of people watching a few people playing a video game, it wouldn't be very entertaining.

They aren't stadiums, but their packed nonetheless. Check out some footage from a previous Pro Tour stop on MLG's Halo 3 Circuit.
http://www.mlgpro.com/video?play=289146
That's just a pregame video, but I'm sure if you let it play it has a playlist to the actual event. At least, they did last season.

I'm not advocating gaming as a sport, but Beykid that's poor reasoning.

Nearly every sport involves a large number of people watching a small majority.

Entertainment is subjective, and isn't what defines something as a sport.

It takes skill to do a lot of things. It takes skill to act, to cook, and to memorize Shakespeare.

Exactly.

Being exceptionally talented at nearly anything requires an incredible amount of time invested to hone your skills. If you go off of 'skill' and 'competition' as the definitions for what a 'sport' is, then you can consider pretty much anything done for fun with a large following a sport.

that doesn't mean people still won't make incredibly dumb arguments about it

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everything's a sport. we're all athletes. hurray us

This thread is illustrates that well I suppose.

hahaha if people come to watch it must be a sport!! guess concerts are sports events now?

seriously fragbait you asked for serious responses, you got them and now you're throwing out lazy responses, probably because nothing you're saying has any merit