What has been the historical impedious for limited formats being created? As someone new to WBO with X they mostly seem like sub generations cut offs. I don't really understand the call for a limited format based on power for a game that has new parts being released monthly, where even the worst parts occasionally hit winning combos, and whose meta has been healthly and constantly evolving since November at least. I get there was a few months some people got burned on WR, but the calls for limited format seems largely in reaction to those months and not the current and evolving state of X.

I have a lot of concerns over introducing a limited format to X, especially depending on how it was implemented, but it would be helpful to understand how limited formats came to be in the past before diving into my concerns.

The impetus for limited formats has always been demand by Bladers to play with their Beyblades. Historically, this has mainly been Bladers wanting to revisit old metagames or use parts they own but are vastly powercrept in standard.

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Burst had a consistent massive powercreep about every 2 years of releases, requiring completely replacing parts, so the Burst formats are split along those lines. That's also why Burst had 3 legacy formats created during its 7 year lifetime from 2015 to 2022:

• BGT: Bladers wanted to play with GT Layers and Discs (released in 2019)
  
• BSL: Bladers wanted to play with God and Cho-Z (2017/2018), Hasbro Layers, Core Discs
  
• BSC: Bladers wanted to play with Single/Dual Layers, Numbered Discs (first 2 years of Burst, 2015/2016)
  

Metal Fight is unique in that the powercreep remained relatively steady for its first 2 years, and then had a massive powercreep yearly in its last 2 years. Metal Fight Limited (MFL) was originally the only alternate parts format, emerging just when the TT toyline ended and while the Hasbro toyline was still going. MFL was meant to capture roughly the first 2 years (July 2008 - early 2011ish). Metal Fight 4D (M4D) is much more recent, being introduced in 2021 - M4D is moreso a variation of MF Standard without the powercreeping Synchrome mechanic.

There are no alt formats for plastics, due to nobody playing plastics, and the parts pool being relatively balanced for its entire existence.

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For those with fatigue of the standard metagame, it's a good idea to give Orgs/Bladers the option to play and top with their 50+ lower-tier Blades. At best we'd be futureproofing a format for upcoming lower-tier releases, and at worst, we're creating the "first 2 years power level" format for X, as we have with every gen prior.

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Currently fan translating the Beyblade X manga. Beyblade Wiki Administrator and occasional manga scanlator.

As a player for the limited event last Saturday I have say it was a really fun format. I never saw a complete mirror deck of mine and only matched up against a couple duplicate beys. Golem 7-60 LR, and Scythe ball. I think golem would have been more dominant if more people had it. I went 7-0 the first two rounds using only golem. scythe ball under performed.
It was very refreshing to not see the same ~5 beys fielded by the majority of the players. I think it's a great format to exist along side of standard.

As a player for the limited event last Saturday I have say it was a really fun format. I never saw a complete mirror deck of mine and only matched up against a couple duplicate beys. Golem 7-60 LR, and Scythe ball. I think golem would have been more dominant if more people had it. I went 7-0 the first two rounds using only golem. scythe ball under performed.
It was very refreshing to not see the same ~5 beys fielded by the majority of the players. I think it's a great format to exist along side of standard.

It does seem that Golem may be a bit too strong by the looks of it - though it does seem significantly stronger than the rest?

For those with fatigue of the standard metagame, it's a good idea to give Orgs/Bladers the option to play and top with their 50+ lower-tier Blades. At best we'd be futureproofing a format for upcoming lower-tier releases, and at worst, we're creating the "first 2 years power level" format for X, as we have with every gen prior.

Big props on the last point, as we would have equal excitement for new releases like ShelterDrake in formats where they thrive.

It'll help us support Takara Tomy even more by buying into Beyblade X for two formats.

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To the best of my knowledge, limited formats have historically aimed to only utilize part banlists wherever possible, and banning part combinations or full combos is kept to a bare minimum except in extreme circumstances. This is the case with Diablo BD145 in MFB 4D and F230CF/GCF in MFB Zero-G, which afaik are the only two part combination bans out of all of the WBO's existing formats, and there are no full-combo bans.
Bans also usually consist largely of that generation's blade equivalent, since their weight and contact points tend to have the most significant impact on play. Though there have definitely been some... exceptions to this rule in the past (RDF, BDR), the logic usually remains the same: a great blade on a bad bit is still a great blade, a bad blade on a great bit might become marginally better.

For example, Wizard Rod. If you don't want to ban the blade, but the meta combos it runs with, what do you ban? WR on 9-60 and 9-70 is easy enough, but what about bits? Well, there's Ball, Free Ball, Orb, Hexa, Level, Rush, Low Rush exists now too, Low Orb is coming out soon... the list just keeps going, and you constantly have to update it as new parts are released. It's quicker, easier, shorter for the rulebooks and simpler for players to just ban the blade that causes the problem and move on to other things.

It's not a matter of being creative, it's a matter of efficiency; both for rule length and clarity, as well as for allowing older and underpowered parts a chance to shine.

Just because something used to be done before doesn’t mean it can’t change or be experimented with. Beyblade X is completely different from Metal Fight. 

Despite this, what BladerGem said still stands. The parts in question will still dominate the meta regardless of what you put it on. Dragoon is possibly the only blade that'll truly get affected by your banlist, because, similar to F230 G/CF, it's only a problematic part when used on E(according to the winning combos thread).

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Want tournaments near you/need help on becoming an organizer? Or just need beyblade help in general? PM me or hit me up on my Discord 

||rolfthebolf||

Just because something used to be done before doesn’t mean it can’t change or be experimented with. Beyblade X is completely different from Metal Fight. 

Despite this, what BladerGem said still stands. The parts in question will still dominate the meta regardless of what you put it on. Dragoon is possibly the only blade that'll truly get affected by your banlist, because, similar to F230 G/CF, it's only a problematic part when used on E(according to the winning combos thread).

The main thing with dragoon is the weight discrepancy. The concern is that it will stonewall in addition to equalize. Even if that weren’t the case, if it’s legal, almost everyone would use it in their deck. This means that L-Drago will go back to seeing almost no play, which is counterintuitive to the goal of the format.

MiXZetsu 

Your take on an untested, experimental way of conducting a limited format is not what this thread is about. Please make a new thread and let us know how your own experimental format works out. Very interested to see how it goes.

This thread is about a limited format in which I responded pertaining to said topic of limited formats. This is an open discussion. I don’t see how telling someone to take it to a different thread contributes anything positive to the discussion of Beyblade.

But- COBALT DRAKE IS MY FAVORITE 😭. MiXZetsu is right!!!

A suggestion for a “ban” is unnecessary atp people have found ways around the beys listed for the suggested format. Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones.


And not to mention, most of the beys listed are questionable because some aren’t naturally as “meta” as some would say.

-pheonix wing
-cobalt dragoon
-silver wolf
-aero pegasus
-wizard rod
-tyranno beat

Are the only layers that are consistently spammed in this era currently. So with new parts and the new system around the corner it has the chance to balance out overall play so I would think that a ban is definitely iffy. But oh well.

A suggestion for a “ban” is unnecessary atp people have found ways around the beys listed for the suggested format. Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones.


And not to mention, most of the beys listed are questionable because some aren’t naturally as “meta” as some would say.

-pheonix wing
-cobalt dragoon
-silver wolf
-aero pegasus
-wizard rod
-tyranno beat

Are the only layers that are consistently spammed in this era currently. So with new parts and the new system around the corner it has the chance to balance out overall play so I would think that a ban is definitely iffy. But oh well.

It has been said ad nauseam that limited isn’t being created because standard is “bad” or to avoid fighting the beys that are commonly used. We are talking about limited because it is an objectively fun take on the game and creates an entirely different experience. This has nothing to do with “learning to combat the strong blades”. 

Remember this is a 2nd and separate competitive format running alongside X Standard. No one’s suggesting we ban those parts from Standard…

A suggestion for a “ban” is unnecessary atp people have found ways around the beys listed for the suggested format. Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones.


And not to mention, most of the beys listed are questionable because some aren’t naturally as “meta” as some would say.

-pheonix wing
-cobalt dragoon
-silver wolf
-aero pegasus
-wizard rod
-tyranno beat

Are the only layers that are consistently spammed in this era currently. So with new parts and the new system around the corner it has the chance to balance out overall play so I would think that a ban is definitely iffy. But oh well.

This is discussion for an alternate limited format, not a ban for Standard format.

Everyone, please keep the thread on-topic and discuss the WBO format being proposed. This is not a general topic thread; please read the proposal post thoroughly.

If you would like to post about your own format ideas, please create your own thread for that idea.

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Currently fan translating the Beyblade X manga. Beyblade Wiki Administrator and occasional manga scanlator.

On a separate note, the proposal is NOT discussing modifications to the X standard format. As stated in the proposal, it's absurd to touch X standard with any restrictions in the current state of its metagame.

This is just an alternate format idea, a popular model that has been used in WBO over the years. These are separate formats such as Burst Classic and Metal Fight Limited, which have nothing to do with the standard formats of their respective generations.

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Currently fan translating the Beyblade X manga. Beyblade Wiki Administrator and occasional manga scanlator.

I think the product line is far enough along at this point that X Limited could be a fun and sufficiently robust alternative experience. With regards to the list proposals, I think the blade list in OP could do to have a couple items cut but is otherwise a good start. Choice pairs could also be something worth considering (although the manner proposed in this thread only serves to be needlessly complex for the sake of it). It may lack precedent but an example like Cobalt Dragoon would be good for a choice pair because it’s play hinges so exclusively on one bit that putting it on something else is still novel. Overall though, definitely interested in seeing if this takes off.

A suggestion for a “ban” is unnecessary atp people have found ways around the beys listed for the suggested format. Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones.


And not to mention, most of the beys listed are questionable because some aren’t naturally as “meta” as some would say.

-pheonix wing
-cobalt dragoon
-silver wolf
-aero pegasus
-wizard rod
-tyranno beat

Are the only layers that are consistently spammed in this era currently. So with new parts and the new system around the corner it has the chance to balance out overall play so I would think that a ban is definitely iffy. But oh well.

Yeah but here's the thing:

Many blades already aren't optimal to use as it stands(Ex. Pearl Tiger, Cowl Sphinx, Scarlet Garuda). All that meta parts do for non-meta parts is make them less usable. The purpose of the Limited format is to give more creative freedom with parts, not to dismantle Standard, as it is separate from Standard. And if those meta parts get replaced, that just means the lesser parts are likely to become even more useless than before. 

"Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones."
The only combos that consistently beat meta combos are just other meta combos. Again, the point of the Limited format is so that you don't have to play around a dominant meta. And if it bothers you that much, it's separate from Standard. Nothing's being banned from Standard.

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Want tournaments near you/need help on becoming an organizer? Or just need beyblade help in general? PM me or hit me up on my Discord 

||rolfthebolf||

A suggestion for a “ban” is unnecessary atp people have found ways around the beys listed for the suggested format. Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones.


And not to mention, most of the beys listed are questionable because some aren’t naturally as “meta” as some would say.

-pheonix wing
-cobalt dragoon
-silver wolf
-aero pegasus
-wizard rod
-tyranno beat

Are the only layers that are consistently spammed in this era currently. So with new parts and the new system around the corner it has the chance to balance out overall play so I would think that a ban is definitely iffy. But oh well.

Yeah but here's the thing:

Many blades already aren't optimal to use as it stands(Ex. Pearl Tiger, Cowl Sphinx, Scarlet Garuda). All that meta parts do for non-meta parts is make them less usable. The purpose of the Limited format is to give more creative freedom with parts, not to dismantle Standard, as it is separate from Standard. And if those meta parts get replaced, that just means the lesser parts are likely to become even more useless than before. 

"Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones."
The only combos that consistently beat meta combos are just other meta combos. Again, the point of the Limited format is so that you don't have to play around a dominant meta. And if it bothers you that much, it's separate from Standard. Nothing's being banned from Standard.

There is plenty of asian comp with players using many off meta combos and topping, the supposed limited format shouldn’t be the focal point because you can win with alot just push for more skill.

Yeah but here's the thing:

Many blades already aren't optimal to use as it stands(Ex. Pearl Tiger, Cowl Sphinx, Scarlet Garuda). All that meta parts do for non-meta parts is make them less usable. The purpose of the Limited format is to give more creative freedom with parts, not to dismantle Standard, as it is separate from Standard. And if those meta parts get replaced, that just means the lesser parts are likely to become even more useless than before. 

"Let bladers learn how to build combos that can combat the stronger ones."
The only combos that consistently beat meta combos are just other meta combos. Again, the point of the Limited format is so that you don't have to play around a dominant meta. And if it bothers you that much, it's separate from Standard. Nothing's being banned from Standard.

There is plenty of asian comp with players using many off meta combos and topping, the supposed limited format shouldn’t be the focal point because you can win with alot just push for more skill.

And therefore, this format will allow lesser skilled players to use this parts too. this format is NOT replacing standard.

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I recommend making a Lightweight format. That's the most fair limitation if the goal is to see other blades get played. Make a list of blades that are less than 32g and review those blades with molds that have above and below 32g to decide if they will be part of the Lightweight Division.

You can further add Middleweight Division(below 35g) to filter out WizardRod which is around 35g+ and then the Standard Play will be an open weight category.

CX Line weights will need to be observed when it gets released because the Blade will be composed of 3 parts.

I recommend making a Lightweight format. That's the most fair limitation if the goal is to see other blades get played. Make a list of blades that are less than 32g and review those blades with molds that have above and below 32g to decide if they will be part of the Lightweight Division.

You can further add Middleweight Division(below 35g) to filter out WizardRod which is around 35g+ and then the Standard Play will be an open weight category.

CX Line weights will need to be observed when it gets released because the Blade will be composed of 3 parts.

Golem is already taken care of, so thats fair.
Even with middleweight division, im worried some very very lightweight blades would still be too light, so i honestly think splitting to 3 tiers i guess. But then again we need more data because weight isnt everything.

I recommend making a Lightweight format. That's the most fair limitation if the goal is to see other blades get played. Make a list of blades that are less than 32g and review those blades with molds that have above and below 32g to decide if they will be part of the Lightweight Division.

You can further add Middleweight Division(below 35g) to filter out WizardRod which is around 35g+ and then the Standard Play will be an open weight category.

CX Line weights will need to be observed when it gets released because the Blade will be composed of 3 parts.

It's like 5am here, so I'm just going to point you towards what Tuckwolf wrote in their response to my question; as they said it better than I can:

...TL;DR I'm largely in favor of this, although I am curious as to how this final list came to be. Is it based off of blade weight, usage statistics, winning vs losing matchup %'s (how many combos it wins against VS how many combos beat it), etc.

A large part of it was Blade Weight, yes. Dagger is the only blade reaching 36 grams. The other, more in depth, reasoning is weighing whether or not it outclasses other Blades. As I'm sure you can see, a lot of these banned attackers made it senseless to try to use beys like Dagger, Viper, Hammer, Rhino, etc. in Standard. Removing the heavyweghts allows beys like Rudder, Chain, Crest, or even Ptera to have a chance to perform well in their intended use. These were all tested and curated by judges in the PNW community, though lists similar to this one have been used experimentally elsewhere. 

Not to be a broken record, but at the X Limited trial event on Saturday, every bey but one (maybe two) was viable and counterable. There was no weight-creep dominance and nearly no viability discrepancy. The one real threat to the healthy meta was Golem, which behaved like a dominanting all-rounder that made it difficult and frustrating when in the rest of the BXL parts pool. Hence its present ban.

Another reason to limit it by weight is that whenever a new blade comes out, you don't need to wait for someone to decide whether it is part of a limited list or not. You just need to weigh the blade to know its weight class. This method will make the rule future proofed. It can't be avoided that there will be some rare occassions that the weight will fall and vary within the set cutoff weight limit so that will be the only case where a review will be needed to properly classify its weight class.

For those asking: Yes the Jurassic World collabs would count as their normal Blades, as they are not new molds. Having a new sticker on top does not make it a new Blade - it is the same as a recolour.

If BXL becomes a Ranked format before Gill Shark releases (unlikely imo), it would probably need testing to see if it can be legal in the format, as with all new parts.

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Currently fan translating the Beyblade X manga. Beyblade Wiki Administrator and occasional manga scanlator.

Another reason to limit it by weight is that whenever a new blade comes out, you don't need to wait for someone to decide whether it is part of a limited list or not. You just need to weigh the blade to know its weight class. This method will make the rule future proofed. It can't be avoided that there will be some rare occassions that the weight will fall and vary within the set cutoff weight limit so that will be the only case where a review will be needed to properly classify its weight class.

I think having some sort of "true cutoff" and then a "maybe true cutoff" can be good. For example we can set the true cut off to around 32 G and below. Then maybe we can also set the "maybe" to 34 G. There are exceptions such as Golem Rock. 

Though keep in mind weight isnt everything. Yes it is a big part, but we need to think about it in terms of overall performance (Going back to Golem as an example.) Even 36g Dagger is slightly outclassed in the Standard format.

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Another reason to limit it by weight is that whenever a new blade comes out, you don't need to wait for someone to decide whether it is part of a limited list or not. You just need to weigh the blade to know its weight class. This method will make the rule future proofed. It can't be avoided that there will be some rare occassions that the weight will fall and vary within the set cutoff weight limit so that will be the only case where a review will be needed to properly classify its weight class.

I do think a weight limit (like banning 37g + blades) is good though considering most of the meta blades such as Cobalt Dragoon, Tyranno Beat, Phoenix Wing and Impact Drake are over this amount.

At the time of writing, I believe whether this format will gain traction will depend on the competitive usefulness of CX. If the current metagame of Rod Ball/Goon Elevate/Level continues for a few more months, Bladers will naturally seek new gameplay. New gameplay that would normally be granted by parts powercreep.

The last time the ongoing standard Beyblade format had the same gameplay (and parts options) was 1.5 years of DynaF/Guilty during 2021 - 2022. Rod Ball is about to hit its 1 year birthday, and Goon Elevate is hitting its 6 months.

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Currently fan translating the Beyblade X manga. Beyblade Wiki Administrator and occasional manga scanlator.

This seems like a great idea. If organizers are interested in organizing this format, sounds fun. Just everybody keep it civil, lol