Quick Poll regarding the current discussion around Dragoon F.

A working group, particularly BWQ , have done testing and found the drivers that make dragoon most consistent in Classic are Drift, Metal Drift, Bearing Drift, Metal Bearing Drift and the Zone Chip (Hasbro & TT) (aka +Z).

This does leave Hasbro ones off but they seem a lot less concerning, but if they were an issue it could be looked at in future, sure.

Do you prefer to ban these drivers (also hitting A2 BDR), or to flat ban Dragoon F and S.


This thread is not saying it will happen, and is just as a point of reference. Please do not take this as any form of indication of anything other than me personally wanting to know where people are at.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Fix the problems, not the symptoms.

Dragoon is the symptom of the greater LAD issues of Burst crawling into Classic as times have gone forward, as new drivers have been introduced without proper testing or care to maintain the format, and as strategies have evolved to exploit them. This is the natural progression of any meta, but we must remember: Dragoon was never an issue until these drivers came along, and there's already worries about BDr in Standard too. Dragoon is not actually super consistent without options like these to rely on, and though it may show up from time to time it won't be as much of a difficult chokehold over the format as it currently is.

The drivers are the problem, the viruses wriggling into the meta. Dragoon is the symptom, a pair of actually very weak left spin layers growing to dominance as these drivers choke out the competition. All Dragoon is guilty of is spinning left, but the drivers are the true root of the combo.

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Cincinnati-based Organizer, and owner of every single currently released TT Burst bey part in at least one color. Hard to think of anything I don't have from MFB either...

Wonderfully put, Magik.

I think the biggest counter argument to Dragoon S/F being banned entirely is that it shouldn't be a threat in any way on Attack or... Defense? combos.

Personally I'd love to use it on attack and I don't think it should be limited to that either, it's a slippery slope to only allow certain drivers for a layer and causes a lot of issues with judges etc. I don't think it'll be a threat on Survive lol.

So yeah the best course is to remove these giant lad drivers and restore some variety to the game. There are other formats for those drivers. WC lists for classic nowadays look depressing.

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I will say this. Bladers like to find inherently lame options. If Dragoon goes, BDr spam will still be a problem, just exclusively on A2 and it will change from a 2-combo meta to a 1-combo meta.

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Also, before a ban happens, more defense testing needs to be done for Drift-SP and +Drift, though I think they won't be a problem.

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Make Limbo ranked I beg

I will say this. Bladers like to find inherently lame options. If Dragoon goes, BDr spam will still be a problem, just exclusively on A2 and it will change from a 2-combo meta to a 1-combo meta.

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Also, before a ban happens, more defense testing needs to be done for Drift-SP and +Drift, though I think they won't be a problem.

The amount of testing needed is kind of a reason to just flat ban them rather than plugging holes as they come up, personally tho I've tried Dr-SP and it was pretty woeful LAD wise and doesn't take hits well, so I am not that worried and +Dr has the same shape I believe. If they became a problem they could be dealt with under the same framework, though.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dragoon is the scapegoat/symptom of the overall issue, like magik said, we shouldn’t punish dragoon because of problematic drivers that make it too consistent existing in the current meta game. Instead we should deal with the real problems these drivers that are clearly too busted for the game, and ruining the experience of people who liked the format by making it a dragoon meta.

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I've been doing some more testing today, and have some thoughts that are sort of making me think about where I stand on this

1. There are other very scary drivers and it may be hard to weed them all out. Today I tried Moment' and it is just as scary (maybe more as it also wins by burst pretty often), we don't know what on the hasbro end will also end up being an issue, and realistically... After all this time it hasn't been tested much. We could wait on it I guess, but do we want to wait, and then spend time picking out random drivers that are just too good for 2 layers per brand?

2. If we flat ban Dragoons, we can probably unban HS? I've had them do funky stuff in same, but they are pretty prone to wandering out even weak launched and make for a sort of substitute, in my eyes, for the wildcard role people liked dragoon playing.

I am at this point not really sure how I feel.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List