Hey guys!

Does Dragooon seem, well, overpowered to you? Do you think it's a gamebreaker? Personally, I don't think it's that insane, but it sure is a heck of a chrome wheel, and it's starting to dominate the metagame in specific areas. People complain all the time that it's waaaayyy too hard to counter, and it's true that there are a wide variety of different Dragooon customs that are in use in the current metagame.

Counters used currently:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Death/Duo___ B : D: These combinations have extraordinary levels of precession and LAD, but they lack the ability to remain in the stadium against combos like Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF/SA165R2F.

Duo___ SA165EWD/BWD: This counter works great as well, but it also has serious problems with defense. Perhaps even worse than the B : D combinations.

Attack types: These work pretty well against what is perhaps the most popular variant of Dragooon combos (SA165 stamina variants). However, Dragooon BD145RDF beyblades have tendency to stay inside the stadium against even the most powerful attackers.

Other Dragooon combos: I myself like to use this a lot. Basically Dragooon that sacrifices LAD for higher stamina/attack power to KO or OS the opposing Dragooon combo. However, there are still Stamina, Defense, and attack type Dragooon combos, so all you are really doing is eliminating the opposite-spin factor, and now you're just playing rock paper scissors again.

These are the combos that are probably most frequently used to counter Dragooon. As you can see, some are consistent, some maybe not as much, but none of them can take out everything Dragooon.

The concept:

Spoiler (Click to View)

This combo basically utilizes the highest LAD track/bottom setup currently tested, and maximizes its performance against opposite-spin by combining it with the Death metal wheel, which has shown an extraordinary record of taking out left-rotating opponents.

IF your F230 is not the orange version (Bandid Genbull F230TB), then this combo will not work nearly as well. However, an orange F230 combined with CF can provide LAD that stomps on setups like B : D or SA165EWD. When you combine that with the Metal Wheel holding the most impressive record against opposite-spin, it becomes a spin-equalizing tank.

CF is this combo's tool in defeating left-spin attack types. The idea that bottoms like CF/GCF can counter opposite-spin attack types is nothing new. If you take a look in my signature, you'll see a link to Genbull Dragooon T125GCF's testing thread.

In that thread, I have provided test results confirmed by another user, along with a video showing GCF's aggressive movement pattern being utilized to meet the opposing bey at full speed, stopping it and continuing to do so until it can OS it. This combo can produce a very similar effect, as you can see in the video below. CF's aggressive movement pattern, as well as this combo's primarily defensive metal wheel and unusually tall height make it a formidable opponent to Dragooon-based attack types.

The launch:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Against left-rotating attackers, a great launch to use is to rip at around 70% while banking. Do NOT use the sliding shoot, just bank. Make sure its launched at around 70%, not full power.

If you don't want to use that, just tornado stall as fast as you can. Use this launch against stamina and defense types as well, left or right spin, as well as right-spin attackers.

Parts choice:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Death: Need I say anything? Death has shown incredible performance against opponents in the opposite-spin, as well as showing passable stamina and considerably high levels of defense.

Cygnus: Cygnus is one of, if not the, highest endurance Clear Wheels to date. It's aerodynamic shape and even weight distribution have been put to use in several stamina type customizations to increase endurance, and its weight can provide some defense as well.

F230: F230 allows CF to stop rotating, while the rest of the beyblade continues to spin even after CF has fallen over. F230 really shows no competitive aspects in the field of stamina or defense, but its ability to basically let any tip spin freely from the rest of the beyblade can be utilized in many different innovative combos.

CF: CF's shape allows it to fall on its side and continue to rotate for a few seconds while making contact with the floor of the stadium. This ability, however, really has no effect when paired with F230, since the track is providing all the LAD. The real reason CF is used with F230 in spin-equalization combos is for its ability to maintain a relatively upright position, keeping the beys Metal/Chrome wheel from touching the stadium floor as the track allows it to continue spinning.

Testing videos:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Sorry if I lost count of the rounds. :\ I couldn't remember the number

Tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Vs. Attack:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
Cygnus launched first on all launches. Prime R2F.
Cygnus: wins, 4/20 (All OS)
Wyvang: wins, 16/20 (15 KO, 1 OS)
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 20%

Fail... just, fail. Again, this is only supposed to really win against Dragooon, and CF's movement pattern can't be utilized very effectively against same-spin opponents.


Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Flash Orion GB145R2F
Cygnus launched first on all launches. Prime R2F.
Cygnus: wins, 6/20 (3 KO, 3 OS)
Orion: wins, 14/20 (13 KO, 1 OS)
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 30%

Same story here. This combo definitely has a problem with same-spin attackers.

Vs. Defense:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. MSF-H Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Beys alternated launching first. Slightly worn RDF.
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/10
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Reviser Killerken BD145CS
Beys alternated launching first. Calm CS.
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Killerken: wins, 0/10
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. MF-H Duo Aquario BD145CS
Beys alternated launching first. Calm CS.
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Aquario: wins, 0/10
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. MF-H Duo Aquario BD145RB
Beys alternated launching first. Nearly brand new RB.
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Aquario: wins, 0/10
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Cygnus can just stall and OS these. Nothing special.

Vs. Stamina:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Duo Cancer W145WD
Beys alternated launching first.
Cygnus: wins, 4/20 (All OS)
Cancer: wins, 16/20 (All OS)
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 20%

Death Cyngus F230CF vs. Duo Cancer 230D
Beys alternated launching first.
Cygnus: wins, 0/20
Cancer: wins, 20/20 (All OS)
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 0%

Cygnus could almost pull this off, but it lost by a few rotations every time. Again, keep in mind this thing is only built to stomp on Dragooon customs.

Vs. Dragooon:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD.
Cygnus: wins, 20/20 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 0/20
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Yah... Cygnus pretty much absolutely dominated. Not even 1 tie!!

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF
Beys alternated launching first. Slightly worn RDF.
Cygnus: wins, 20/20 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 0/20
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Total domination again... although Dragooon came close to sorta almost squeaking out a tie a couple times, Cygnus shattered it.

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Reviser Dragooon B : D
Beys laternated launching first. 5 minute mold Hasbro B : D.
Cygnus: wins, 20/20 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 0/20
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F
Cygnus launched first on all launches. Prime R2F.
Cygnus: wins, 14/20 (1 KO, 13 OS)
Dragooon: wins, 6/20 (All KO)
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 70%

Cygnus had a hard time with this, but it is able to hit around a 70% win rate. That said, this combo can still effectively take this thing out, but not nearly at 100%. I also found that it worked very, very well against Dragooon in the last few rounds when I banked it at around 75% launch strength.

Anyway, that pretty much shows that this thing can take down anything using the Dragooon chrome wheel for left-spin. These win rates are absolutely accurate, as you'll see in the video above.

So there you go! Consistent high win rate against pretty much every variant of Dragooon customizations!

Counters:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Duo Cygnus/Cancer/Aquario 230D/SD/W145WD/EWD

Wyvang Wyvang ____145 R2F/RF

Hope you guys find this combo effective! It's sure working for me. Feel free to post testing requests. Feedback is appreciated.

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Hmm, Duo ____ F230CF is pretty much the same thing as this, except you're using Death, and Duo probably does a better job than Death in this situation. But otherwise, great tests! It seems really good!

Oh, and remember you're not allowed to give nicknames to customizations.

And wow, tests against Defense and Left Spin were amazing!

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You were right. I need a bowl a ramen to watch this video, I like seeing Dragooon fall >
EDIT: Can you post a link to the video? Not working on the Kindle I'm using

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

I like this combo idea. It's pretty cool. But I have one problem. Judging by tests it mainly beats Dragooon and defense combos. Having trouble with attack and stamina seems like a problem considering those are used in the meta a lot.

Do you think GCF could make this a bit better, or was there a very specific reason for CF?

No nicknames.

I'm really doubting your Wyvang Dragooon SA165 R2F tests. You didn't launch it that well, and your launch of it seemed a little weak. We'll see though.

Will a brown or Hasbro F230 "work" just as well against attackers, and can Gasher be used?

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Like B-Daman! Go here!

GCF is more aggressive, probably for a controlled approach

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

But since GCF is more aggro, wouldn't it be a bit better for countering Dragooon attack considering it would hit it faster than CF?

At the risk of control and self KO with that high of a track? No

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Hmm, Duo ____ F230CF is pretty much the same thing as this, except you're using Death, and Duo probably does a better job than Death in this situation. But otherwise, great tests! It seems really good!

Oh, and remember you're not allowed to give nicknames to customizations.

And wow, tests against Defense and Left Spin were amazing!

Oops! You're probably right... I'll take the nickname out now.

As for tests against Duo, I was originally going to post tests for that and change the name to Death/Duo Cygnus F230CF later, but then I thought I couldn't test against stamina because I only have 1 Duo :\

I can do the tests for Duo if you'd like, and yes this does work very, very well with Duo.

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No nicknames.

I'm really doubting your Wyvang Dragooon SA165 R2F tests. You didn't launch it that well, and your launch of it seemed a little weak. We'll see though.

Will a brown or Hasbro F230 "work" just as well against attackers, and can Gasher be used?

I just did a video, and if it's a matter of my launch then I'm sorry to say you're wrong my friend. My launch was very strong, and I got the sweeping technique perfect. It just won, that's all.

Sure, I guess a brown one might work against an attack type. And yah, Gasher would be fine.
A video would be nice too, if you have the time.

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I think it's already been tested for Zero-G and not for BB-10 yet, so tests for it would be great!

And I could do some tests for you as well with Death Cygnus F230CF.

I really think this combo is good, and further tests will help to see if it has a future in the top tier list

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I like this combo idea. It's pretty cool. But I have one problem. Judging by tests it mainly beats Dragooon and defense combos. Having trouble with attack and stamina seems like a problem considering those are used in the meta a lot.

This is just for beating Dragooon. Nothing else really. I didn't want it to beat attack types or stamina types, just Dragooon.

EDIT: LMAO: That would be great!

I was originally gonna use Duo on this combo, but I decided on Death because of its superior record against left-spin, and the fact that I didn't have another Duo :\

I'm trying Duo out right now, and it's doing pretty great. Maybe I'll put Duo on this afterall.

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Can you put the link in there...?

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Alright, I just re-did the test against Wyvang Dragooon...

Except this time, I tried stalling Dragooon.

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F
Cygnus launched first. Prime R2F.
Cygnus: wins, 14/20 (13 OS, 1 KO)
Dragooon: wins, 6/20 (All KO)
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 70%

It would seem that I was wrong. Wyvang Dragooon can definitely put up a fight against this, you just have to stall it as fast as you can. Death was still able to pull a positive win rate, but barely. Sorry Shinobu, you were right. I'll update the OP.

As I see it, this is a decent counter against Dragooon. This is definitely a unique style to counter opposite-spin, but it would seem that attack can give it a hard time :\

LMAO: Sorry, but I can't get the Duo tests done. I really don't have time.

I hope you guys find this combo effective! I've also found that it works great with Duo, but I won't be able to get any tests done for a while.

Again, apologies to ShinobuXD, I should've figured out how to launch Dragooon first :\. Also sorry again for the nickname. Don't wanna be one of those people .

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Ah, yes, 14/20 seems much more like what I'd expect, since CF is good for defense in opposite spin.

Apology accepted.

Anyways, could you please test it against Revizer Dragooon SA165 RDF, using a worn RDF for more precession/LAD?

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Like B-Daman! Go here!

Yeah this wasn't even close.

Reviser Dragooon sa165 rdf(worn-ish) vs. MF-L Death Cygnus f230 cf

Death wins: 10(all os)
Dragooon wins: 0

Death Cygnus win rate: 100%

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

How about against Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF and Killerken dragoon SA165GF.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

@AZL Killerken Dragooon BD145GF would be a much better testing beyblade. SA165 is too tall for GF to stand completely upright consistently and defeats the purpose of GF's ridiculous high stability. Think of it like a balance type. You are compromising stability for improved LAD, but because you are not the best in either one, you combo will not be as effective as it could be.

This combo is really cool, I was actually thinking of something really similar but I completely overlooked Death. XD I went straight for Genbull and Killerken. The combo was basically trash since Synchromes would never have the balance of Death and are so large that it tips over on GCF.....so yeah. I could see how this is good.

I keep saying I will test these out but I rarely get the time to. I really wanna test this guy out though.

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1306-5160-2822 PM me if you do so I can add you back!

I think Shining god MS is testing it though.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

Its true, and its actually putting up very good in all the sections! FYI, SA165 is used in lower mode, though, this doesnt mean it should be tested yet... also, I can probably do these tests when I get my F230

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Right spin Stamina Wheels on F230CF haven't had much trouble with Dragooon so far, so I feel like this combo is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. This variant seems good, but there is no real reason to use Death over Duo, or maybe even Genbull Genbull.

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Right spin Stamina Wheels on F230CF haven't had much trouble with Dragooon so far, so I feel like this combo is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. This variant seems good, but there is no real reason to use Death over Duo, or maybe even Genbull Genbull.

I know... I seriously regret not using Duo on this. This thread was kind of a flub :\
I've been out of it lately. I tried to Do MSF-L Girago Girago BD145RF and this at the same time. I'm gonna leave this here just 'cause, but you guys are definitely right, I think Duo would almost definitely be a better option in this situation.

The only thing I disagree with is the fact that Dragooon combos don't cause a problem. It's totally overused/dominant in the NC metagame (Although I am one of the guilty party ), and I've never seen stamina types using F230CF before. I didn't even know Duo____ 230CF had been tested before until yesterday, so I thought this was a new idea... Sorry 'bout that should've done my homework I'll do more research next time.

Spoiler (Click to View)

Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD vs. Genbull Genbull F230CF
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD.
Genbull: wins, 3/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 7/10 (All OS)
Genbull Genbull F230CF win rate: 30%

ties redon: 4

Death Cygnus F230CF vs. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD.
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 0/10
Death Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%


Duo Cygnus F230CF vs. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
Beys alternated launching first. New EWD.
Cygnus: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Dragooon: wins, 0/10
Duo Cygnus F230CF win rate: 100%

It would seem Genbull doesn't actually work. Duo and Death are the only real contenders, but there seems to be no difference in their performance... so you're totally right, Duo is obviously the better choice.

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and I've never seen stamina types using F230CF before. I didn't even know Duo____ 230CF had been tested before until yesterday, so I thought this was a new idea... Sorry 'bout that should've done my homework I'll do more research next time.

You'd never seen F230CF combos before?! They've been popular for a while now.

It would seem Genbull doesn't actually work.

I haven't done any formal testing with Genbull, but I've had success with it in ZERO-G Stadiums.

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I've seen plenty on Dragoon F230CF combos before (used them a lot, actually), just nothing without Dragooon... except one time, Dark used Killerken Genbull F230CF against me. I used Dragoon B : D and genbull got owned That's the only time I've seen one used. I don't know why we don't see them here more often, if they're really that popular.

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I've seen plenty on Dragoon F230CF combos before (used them a lot, actually), just nothing without Dragooon... except one time, Dark used Killerken Genbull F230CF against me. I used Dragoon B : D and genbull got owned That's the only time I've seen one used. I don't know why we don't see them here more often, if they're really that popular.

Was that in BB-10? If so, that's odd.

People must only have the brown F230.

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