Oh, I have no doubts Beat CAN do what people claim it can, it's just the reliability and user-friendliness of it that concerns me. IKMV is a Blader of exceptional knowledge, is he not? I am not a skilled Blader by any means, so it is no surprise that I cannot net reliable KOs with Beat on top tier combos, but many other skilled attackers I know advise against it.

One such case, for example, being Deikailo, who herself advised that I would be better served not to use Beat against T1 threats. She is a prolific Beat user, too.

Regardless, I'm not sure Beat has a place on this list if Blitz and Vari do what it can with a lot less required ability and without the fatal height reliance flaw.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Alright then. :V
How about Phantom? You seemed very keen on it being used for attack (it really reminds me of Burn, just suped-up) and it is doing pretty well IIRC.

Boy we better have a Basalt revamp or Defense will be left in the dust with all these TT releases counter-acting their final reckoning. (Basalt) It seems they're into that: crazy as hell Defense wheel dominating all, monstrously strong attackers released after it.. :V

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As much as I boast VariAres CH120RF, I can see that R145 can also do an efficient job, though IIRC in Keis initial tests, it got like 0% vs. MF-H Basalt BD145CS while CH120, well you know, blasted it out of the park with 95%..

There are 2 possible alignments for VariAres R145. The best one would be when the rubbers of R145 are facing the yellow rubbers of VariAres. It does make a difference.

All VariAres, Blitz AND Beat are able to KO on low spin. But I agree, Beat is the most difficult to get used to. Its 2 smash points are still less likely to KO compared to Blitz's and VariAres' 3 smash points

I also don't think that 85 track is needed for VariAres, since the metal wheel is thick enough to reach low track beys, when slide shot / banked

Alright, I just did about 200 tests(but only got proper launches on the ones I recorded, lol, the rest were either self-KOs or auto-KOs etc)

Deep Banked Sliding Shoot, Otherwise Standard Procedures
MF-H Beat Lynx GB145RF(Near Mint) vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS(Semi-Aggro)
MF-H Beat Lynx GB145: 15(KO)
MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS: 5(4 KO, 1 OS)
MF-H Beat Lynx GB145RF Win Rate: 75%

The launch really is kind of tricky(especially for someone like me who has trouble with consistency in general), but when it's right, the KO is usually with the first couple of circular patterns. Two of the KOs from Beat, however, were also surprisingly at decently low velocity. So, there is more validity to Beat than I suspected after all, if even I can crank out KOs with it.

Alright then. :V
How about Phantom? You seemed very keen on it being used for attack (it really reminds me of Burn, just suped-up) and it is doing pretty well IIRC.

Boy we better have a Basalt revamp or Defense will be left in the dust with all these TT releases counter-acting their final reckoning. (Basalt) It seems they're into that: crazy as hell Defense wheel dominating all, monstrously strong attackers released after it.. :V

Phantom still hasn't been tested NEARLY enough as an Attack part to earn a spot.

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Some manner of Octopus.

I also don't think that 85 track is needed for VariAres, since the metal wheel is thick enough to reach low track beys, when slide shot / banked

I only ask because apparently it can KO Basalt 230CS and Basalt BD145CS, and those kind of KO's sound very neat. :V
I don't think anyone actually put hard tests to it though.. Could be completely inconsistent.

Nice stuff Hazel!
I figured since Phantom was doing generally well in the few Attack tests it was in perhaps we should bring it up..

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Regardless, I'm not sure Beat has a place on this list if Blitz and Vari do what it can with a lot less required ability and without the fatal height reliance flaw.

Blader skill/Difficulty of use have no place in a tier list.

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Check my stuff for sale.

Okay, so:
1. Blitz for attack
2. Phantom for Stamina (and arguable all the other possible categories)
3. remove gravity and lightning.
4. why is earth back on defense?
5. Beat is still up for discussion
6. Should Hell and Earth still be on stamina?

Theres more, I'm just to lazy to list 'em.

god we need a lot of comparatives guys.
Hazel, you up for me PM'ing you with them all?

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Regardless, I'm not sure Beat has a place on this list if Blitz and Vari do what it can with a lot less required ability and without the fatal height reliance flaw.

Blader skill/Difficulty of use have no place in a tier list.

When a wheel depends as much as Beat does on it, compared to much more user-friendly Attack wheels, and with lower reliability overall, difficulty of use actually has a very tangible presence. Anyone who chose Beat over Blitz, despite Blitz performing better, being easier to use, etc. for a competitive situation would be just... incorrect. Thoroughly wrong.

Okay, so:
1. Blitz for attack
2. Phantom for Stamina (and arguable all the other possible categories)
3. remove gravity and lightning.
4. why is earth back on defense?
5. Beat is still up for discussion
6. Should Hell and Earth still be on stamina?

Theres more, I'm just to lazy to list 'em.

god we need a lot of comparatives guys.
Hazel, you up for me PM'ing you with them all?

1. Yes.
2. Phantom for Defense, too - Attack I am still dubious of.
3. Yes.
4. I have no idea.
5. Not really!
6. Nope!

I'm not sure why you'd PM comparatives to me, mang. I'm like the worst Blader with access to this forum, unless Mc Frown is extremely terrible or something.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Is Phantom a Defense type per se or more of what many people feel ashamed to call a balance? Because I've read it has quite the recoil.

It's won a couple of tournaments in full-on Defense combos, and I'd actually heard the opposite about its recoil if you're using Stamina mode...

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Some manner of Octopus.

I'm not sure why you'd PM comparatives to me, mang. I'm like the worst Blader with access to this forum, unless Mc Frown is extremely terrible or something.

Can't think of anyone else, and you seem to have a lot of the newer releases, so why not?

When I get Phantom I'm going to test its attack capabilities for sure.

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I don't have anything new... my Death will be here soon, but that's all. Other than Death Quetz, my newest Bey is Beat Lynx, lol.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Okay, so are we going to have stuff changed anytime soon..? I mean some of this stuff is far overdue.

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As far as I'm aware, he's been extremely busy lately, and it's not just as simple as swapping stuff off the list and putting stuff onto it - it may be that simple for the Tier List thread and such, but stuff in this thread needs to be more thoroughly investigated.

We've got... what, three testimonials, currently going? And all three people providing them aren't active in the tournament circuit. You're on beyblade House Arrest, and SSJ and I don't go to tournaments. There's Uwik, but he hasn't really proposed anything, just commented on our suggestions.

He should weigh in more, in my opinion.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Most of the stuff discussed are already proven in tournaments in great detail:

Low Track Attackers are out of style along with most pre-4D attackers.
Phantom is dominating Basalt and almost everything else.

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Yeah, but he still has to go through and double-check everything.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Low tracks heights for attackers have been undesirable in tournaments for quite a while now and could be taken as fact by now, and he himself said Phantom was an absolute revelation.

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I'm not arguing that they're not solid facts by this point, I'm just indicating that the thread hasn't been updated, so obviously there is a reason for that.

The reason I have posited is the most likely one. Busy + Needing to check a few things on some of our suggestions.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Yeah, I'm just saying the more prominent ones take no though, really. Which is what I was after for changing, getting the 'suggestions' out of the way whenever Kei isn't busy. Editing the list with simple revamps takes like 30 seconds.
But we're on the same page so I should just let it go haha.

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I know Uwik could've posted this, but I was pretty amazed and impressed when I saw it:
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-INDONESI...#pid834651
He keeps monthly record of exactly what combos do well at his tournaments. I learned quite a bit just by reading it.

Yeah, I'd heard he kept something like that - I just... uh. Well, I don't speak that language, which is why I simply said Uwik should chime in!

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Some manner of Octopus.

Don't worry: I won't think any less of you for it.

Speaking of chiming in, we have a couple new additions who don't bother with this forum!
We need more view-points and most of the original few are busy like dervishes.

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The main reason I didn't bring the Indo meta up here, because I feel that a localized meta is not representative enough for the rest of the world. Although, some combos are generally acceptable, a few are really niche combos. I, for one, can't replicate some of the results the list achieves. I have done personal tests that gave great results, but failed to perform in tournaments, and vice versa.

Ex: MF-H LDD BD145 RF/LRF
In my personal opinion, this is a niche combo. I've seen 2 users (Pycborg and stephen74) used this competitively before with a high degree of success. I can't even get the bare minimum of 60% winning rate whilst using this combo. Although, iirc, in the latest tournament, Pcyborg seemed to have flunked, while using this combo.

Another thing about tournament combos. We have to take the opponents' combos into consideration. Most were caught off guard while facing a fresh, possibly tiered combo. Hence, the high percentage of win rate. Over the course of few months, these opponents will find themselves counter combos, which will then over-power this tiered combos. Hence, the increasing loss rate. Has the previously 'rocking' combo earned its place in this list? Maybe yes, maybe no. Was the winning rate a fluke or was it consistent?

I try to unbiased as much as possible regarding the 'Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos'. So here is my proposal:

This is a little extreme, but it's the hard truth, imo.

Stamina
Remove all Basalt variants.
Remove all Hell variants.
Remove all Earth variants.
**** This three were great, but they have served their time in the stamina department, and are no longer holding up when faced with other new 4D stamina combos.
Put Phantom in
Put Bearing Drive in

Attack
Remove all LLD variants.
Remove all Gravity variants.
**** Simply said, after 4D, can we still even argue that these 2 exhibit raw attack power to match VariAres and Blitz? I think not.
Put Blitz in
(I'm still on the fence about Beat)

Defense
Remove all Libra variants.
Remove all Earth variants.
**** These 2 are getting ko-ed around like nobody's business, even paired with defensive tracks. With defensive rubber bottoms, the KOs are a lot less, yet the left over stamina to outspin the attacker is also diminished after receiving hard smashes, especially when the rubber bottoms are no longer mint.
Put Death in (It's great with BD145/85 MB/RDF/RS)

Balance
Remove MF-H Hell Kerbecs BD145 CS.
Move the Basalt/Phantom TH170/230 CS here.

There it is, my 'chime'... hah (yes, I'm using Kai-V's trademark)

I still feel there is quite a lot to be said for the placement of MF G. Perseus BD145MF in the Balance section, however. It can stand up to all top-tier Defense threats, outspin most, if not all Attackers, and deal with Stamina types as if it were a pure Attack-type.

All other GP Combos do need to go, though.

I also do not feel Beat deserves a spot. It's my favorite MW, but... it's just lacking. I mean, yes, I am capable of using it proficiently, and many people are, but the simple fact is even in the best cases it's not as reliable as VariAres or Blitz. I am also not aware of any strong tournament presence it has - if there is one, feel free to mention it, but I don't recall seeing it place in any recent events.

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Some manner of Octopus.

I also do not feel Beat deserves a spot. It's my favorite MW, but... it's just lacking. I mean, yes, I am capable of using it proficiently, and many people are, but the simple fact is even in the best cases it's not as reliable as VariAres or Blitz. I am also not aware of any strong tournament presence it has - if there is one, feel free to mention it, but I don't recall seeing it place in any recent events.

Beat presence in a tournament (Start at 6:04) In the end, it lost to a wall-save, but there were a few other Beat combos not caught on video.

Beat's smash is still a bit sluggish compared to VariAres or Blitz, but it's still definitely worth discussing.