The problem I have with BT is its aesthetic. It just...attracts the wrong kind of people. All that moeblob and cutesy stuff...

The problem I have with BT is its aesthetic. It just...attracts the wrong kind of people. All that moeblob and cutesy stuff...

The vanguard community here runs side by side with the Weiss Schwarz community. Bermuda is no where near that level lol.

But its a good starting platform to players who prefer this kind of aesthetics to play.

But seriously with DOTE running rampant for english I do want to see how the mermaids fare with break rides equiped. Especially since the next booster release is quite sometime later.

The problem I have with BT is its aesthetic. It just...attracts the wrong kind of people. All that moeblob and cutesy stuff...

see now that's the thing, that's why nearly every burmuda player here in Melbourne plays except me. I play burmuda's for 4 reasons, 1. drawing 2. bouncing 3. my sister plays it 4. some of the triggers look like madoka magica characters. however, when ever I do play it, I feel abit embarrassed about playing it.

ps: just so you know, the Melbourne vanguard community would laugh at this one as we tend to not trust v-mundi at all, but over here, one mention of it makes it onto nearly every page.

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Wait, negatively, positively, or mixed?

I just got back from the Booster Draft and I took 5th out of 10 players! I got tons of promos, 5 new AQF cards I put in my deck, a Platina Ezel deck box, and 30 new BT's from the new Extra Booster.

Aw, lucky. I definitely need to get some BTs soon. Hopefully, I won't exhaust my entire Vanguard budget before I can finish the deck. I plan on buying two or three boxes of EBs. I'm not sure if I should buy one or two Dazzling Diva boxes, though.

I'm really looking for another Navalgazer Dragon, though. My Aqua Force deck is the deck I've messed with/edited the most, but I still need to get to 3-4 Navalgazer Dragons. I MIGHT be able to live with two, but...

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/Cardfight+...zer+Dragon
http://www.amazon.com/Cardfight-Vanguard...zer+dragon

Hell of a lot cheaper than buying 3 Trial Decks.

That's the first thing I was thinking. A decent chunk of my Aqua Force deck is set, with the extra stand triggers, dropped Draw Triggers, and the extra Dorothea. So, being unwilling to buy more Trial Decks, I'm looking for singles now.

Wait, negatively, positively, or mixed?

if that was for me, probably mixed, or just give allot of reasons why v-mundi can't be trusted.

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Aw, lucky. I definitely need to get some BTs soon. Hopefully, I won't exhaust my entire Vanguard budget before I can finish the deck. I plan on buying two or three boxes of EBs. I'm not sure if I should buy one or two Dazzling Diva boxes, though.

I'm really looking for another Navalgazer Dragon, though. My Aqua Force deck is the deck I've messed with/edited the most, but I still need to get to 3-4 Navalgazer Dragons. I MIGHT be able to live with two, but...

If thats the case, Id recommend you save up for your AQF instead.

BT11 is slated to be released first before BT10 I heard. You could probably buy off some singles for decent AQF support. If you have yet to get your perfect guards, BT11 is a good time to hunt for them. I heard NavalGazer fares rather well with Genovious.

I got a Tri-Stringer Dragon and a Hydro Hurricane from a trade that I put in my AQF deck. Btw, I also got the entire Coral ride chain including Aurora Star Coral! 2 people also got Pacifica and 1 got Labrador. I pulled my Coral ride chain in every match that day!

Well, I have three Paschals I need. I just don't feel like dropping my 8k vanillas for 'em. I'll probably drop all the Cryprus I have, because it makes more sense.

I like Accelerated Command, for some reason. I think they work fairly well with, say, Dorothea to make that extra +4000 on attack 3 a +6000, and a +2000 otherwise. Good for finishing, and I could just put the +2000 elsewhere if I sniff PGs (Like on Titan of the Pyroxene Mine for a +5000 when boosted by AQF. Good for possibly two or three stages). I mean, Navalgazer Dragon is one hell of a pressure machine. Being only an attack 3 effect, I don't know many people who would eat that, and I still have the Titan to really swing for damage. 23000 power from a RG is always nice (Assuming 8k vanilla, but the +2000 goes a long way in making up for possibly not having one).

Then if Navalgazer hits, then another 21-23k comes right back for the vanguard through the LB4 effect. Thrown in the chances for ANY trigger from Navalgazer (Especially a stand or crit, but I don't often count on them), and a VG can all of a sudden swing for 28k at the VG, which DEMANDS a PG. In this case, I'd love to have Dorothea behind Titan, because now the PG is extremely valuable, seeing as the VG is now looking at 32k, or 27k without a trigger. I haven't seen many people have multiple in one hand, so you'll have to pick your poison. I'm okay with that being guarded, because it doesn't COST anything. The +2000 goes away the next turn, of course, but then you still have Navalgazer with a shot to do it all over again. Major pressure, and pretty much unblockable without a PG. You don't need that second attack, but nobody's gonna block a 27k fourth attack.

Wait, negatively, positively, or mixed?

if that was for me, probably mixed, or just give allot of reasons why v-mundi can't be trusted.

Not that I'm mad at you or anything, but I'm curious of this statement. Why can't V-Mundi be trusted?

Is it because they are unsupportive of the 13k meta and DOTE in general?

Well, I have three Paschals I need. I just don't feel like dropping my 8k vanillas for 'em. I'll probably drop all the Cryprus I have, because it makes more sense.

I like Accelerated Command, for some reason. I think they work fairly well with, say, Dorothea to make that extra +4000 on attack 3 a +6000, and a +2000 otherwise. Good for finishing, and I could just put the +2000 elsewhere if I sniff PGs (Like on Titan of the Pyroxene Mine for a +5000 when boosted by AQF. Good for possibly two or three stages). I mean, Navalgazer Dragon is one hell of a pressure machine. Being only an attack 3 effect, I don't know many people who would eat that, and I still have the Titan to really swing for damage. 23000 power from a RG is always nice (Assuming 8k vanilla, but the +2000 goes a long way in making up for possibly not having one).

Then if Navalgazer hits, then another 21-23k comes right back for the vanguard through the LB4 effect. Thrown in the chances for ANY trigger from Navalgazer (Especially a stand or crit, but I don't often count on them), and a VG can all of a sudden swing for 28k at the VG, which DEMANDS a PG. In this case, I'd love to have Dorothea behind Titan, because now the PG is extremely valuable, seeing as the VG is now looking at 32k, or 27k without a trigger. I haven't seen many people have multiple in one hand, so you'll have to pick your poison. I'm okay with that being guarded, because it doesn't COST anything. The +2000 goes away the next turn, of course, but then you still have Navalgazer with a shot to do it all over again. Major pressure, and pretty much unblockable without a PG. You don't need that second attack, but nobody's gonna block a 27k fourth attack.

Im confused here.

How are you making 23K columns with Titan of the Pyroxene Mine on the RG? Given that you boost with Theo (8K) it should only be 20 at most and even with Accelerated Commando called on another column, its 22K on RG.

And dorothea is a VG only booster. Cos right now Im seeing all these huge numbers I have no idea where they are from.

From what I know
NavalGazer >> +3K on third to attack, +3K more when LB4 CB2 and when attack hits (third to attack), stand 2 RG.
Titan of the Pyroxene Mine >> +2K when boosted by an AQF unit
Accelerated Commando >> +2K to an AQF unit on call to RG
Dorothea >> 10K boost when 3rd to attack strictly boosting a VG

27K/32K/23K doesnt seem like reachable numbers unless you burn quite a bit of CBs for Crypus...

Really confused now.

Aw, hell. My bad. I was thinking of the numbers off the top of my head, and messed up the effects. My bad. It should be 22k with the +2000 and an 8k vanilla for a booster. And yeah, Dorothea is VG only. I'm sorry. Seems like I forgot a few things.

Wait, negatively, positively, or mixed?

if that was for me, probably mixed, or just give allot of reasons why v-mundi can't be trusted.

Not that I'm mad at you or anything, but I'm curious of this statement. Why can't V-Mundi be trusted?

Is it because they are unsupportive of the 13k meta and DOTE in general?

that and the fact that people think she is too serious that she doesn't take into account of actual gameplay or people's actions. she also thinks a little too highly of perfect guards. sure they are great and yes, most if not all decks need 4 of them, but final attacks or limit breaks tend to be used either to get rid of them or when players know they don't have them or can't use them. a few more reasons but I hear those ones often, the whole perfect guard thing even I follow.

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I was playing JellyBallsDepp Spike Bros and onesojgndsojnfvdsj this deck is so fun. Link Jokers can't touch dis. 3 perfect gaurds seemed clunky so I went 2 (maybe 2 (too) much?) 13 Grade 3 is absolutely ridiculous.

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"Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"

that and the fact that people think she is too serious that she doesn't take into account of actual gameplay or people's actions. she also thinks a little too highly of perfect guards. sure they are great and yes, most if not all decks need 4 of them, but final attacks or limit breaks tend to be used either to get rid of them or when players know they don't have them or can't use them. a few more reasons but I hear those ones often, the whole perfect guard thing even I follow.

Shortening because tl;dr (Click to View)

Well, yeah, of course the LBs and High-stage hitters, ie Amon and stuff that tends to go high numbers like 30k+ (anything beyond Stage 3) are often used to get rid of them. They apply the necessary pressure to make your opponent screw up and eventually take a hit. Just that some are more optimal than others because of consistency (back to the Ezel and Garmore argument). PGs are ace-in-the-hole guards, which is why 4 is often the most required cards in a deck and has to be run at maximum. Mostly because if you run less, the chances of you being able to defend a "final attack" dwindle and you'll lose. If you run max, you maximize the chances of you being able to defend a "final attack" and make a turn around. Seriously, just give it a try. Play a number of games against yourself using two decks, and every 5-10 or so games, adding or subtract a PG and you'll notice a difference.

You realize that the community of V-Mundi speaks in statistics, not in luck or whatever. It's...a science thing that even I can't grasp because I'm not that well-off in mathematics. But it's the same thing with, say, poker or black jack or games that require chance, which can be calculated and mastered.

And reguarding Crossrides, keep in mind, she is very selective. She even covered Great Daiyusha because Dimension Police balances the whole Crossride thing, relying solely on Vanguard power than RG power. Also, another thing we of V-Mundi tend to believe is that Crossrides breed bad players, which is people who tend to flock to the "overpowered" and "broken cards" (ie MLB, whose price has been strangely decreasing, and DOTE) because of power creep, and that they spend so much money on cards they either can't control or play properly, and then they'll trade it off because it was a waste. It's offsetting.

I mean, you-do-you if you wanna play DOTE, but don't just rush in without knowing how to maximize its full potential. Hell, even I would play DOTE if I had the money to (because, come on, playing with people fairly is fun, but realistically, I can't go to locals as I am). DOTE isn't an end-all VG if you just solely rely on him. If you rely on Draws because "oh, get DOTE faster for faster kill because DOTE is broken", that's already a problem. Then what, you get DOTE out, and you can CB2 + PB for his standing effect. Yeah, people WILL want to guard a Stage 3 monstrosity and keep him from hitting (did you know he doesn't even have to hit an RG to whack off his effect?), because restanding will be a pain and will screw you up even more. It's the same with Dragonic Descendant, a not-Crossride but essentially a DOTE look-a-like, except the attack shouldn't hit in order for the effect to go off, thus applying super pressure across the board.

-

I think to me, as not a V-Mundi member (even though I am, but I'm speaking as myself right now), that broken cards are the cards that pretty much ensure instant win with little choice to defend. When played right. You can have broken cards and still lose because you don't know how to use them right. Which is how I feel the majority of the meta is because they flock to the idea of brokeness, but you can have the strongest weapon in the galaxy and still not be able to kill a single enemy (or kill everything not intended to be killed) if you can't control it.

Now, you don't have to listen to me, and you're free to call me out on my argument and say that I'm wrong. I'm pretty low in the V-Mundi community in terms of intelligence, but this is pretty much how I summed up my experience in the community. You guys are free to believe what you want, but I just want to ask if you guys keep your minds open. I'm willing to if the logic and argument makes sense, but I just don't believe in "anecdotes".

OK, this sounds like an interesting discussion. I only have one thing, other than dote (because even I know that is broken unless against other crossrides and even then), do you think Alice could show how crossrides can not be broken, or explain the crossrides so that players that don't use them be able to fight them even if their deck isn't built around fighting crossrides, cause I know players are doing that with decks like koko, infact, the Australian representative for the jap format worlds, Ben, played koko and only lost to a deck that didn't use crossrides, due to the ridiculous nature of the games they play (he has a long story for that, it's should be on one of vg caster's vids on youtube).

on the note of fighting myself, I will have to proxy for that, I only own 3 nulls being a budget player running royals.

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I view crossrides as a necessary evil to keep the game going. Im pretty much fine with any other unit cross riding EXCEPT DOTE. That thing is a pain.

The problem with cross rides is, it lead to a certain playing style of hitting 18K is the required figure to hit. To be honest, thats kinda high considering that you need your 8K G1 to achieve that, along with a 10 attacker (minimum). This alone locks out about 8 cards from your deck building. Something which was once optional became a staple in deck building. Not every clan has a special booster which hits beyond that. 9k+3k G2s were also a product to simply hit them.

This... is a problem. It eliminate a whole chunk of the cardpool before BT05. Whatever investments made before becomes near useless since the crossride is an almighty 13K wall. It shifted the meta to such a way that you need 18k columns just to make em drop 10k shields and to do that, you would be running

8K G1 Vanillas
10k G2 Vanillas
9K+3K G2 attackers

These 3 became the near staple. Alternatively, 8K+3K G2 (like Mocha) for OTT became alternatives if 9K+3K G2s didnt exist. If your deck is just power based, then all those fancy effects bushiroad tried to push is all pointless cos Crossrides just 5k guards em.

true but there are decks, like royal garmore for instance as that's my deck at the moment, has effectively over 4 8000 boosters. 1000 rearguards are not too hard to get, especially if you have a few grade 3 that do that pert swell. unfortunately, my deck is horrible against dote as kagero eliminates rear guards, another reason kagero's dote is op.

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Explaining the brokeness of 13k (Click to View)

What makes Crossrides broken in the first place is the 13k defensive. Now, thinking, "Oh, 2k extra power isn't that much of a difference." I used to say the same about 1k extra power difference between 10k and 11k. But here's how it works:

10k vs 11k may not seem like much, but defensively, it changes the number of guards. We base guards by stages, which is defined as every 5k power against the attacker/defender. Each stage is range from a 0k difference to a 4k differnence. For example, if I were to face Dragonic Lawkeeper without LB against a 10k VG, that's a 0k difference, so Stage 1. If I were to boost with, say, Bahr to 18k, that's a 2 Stage attack because it broke beyond the 4k boundary to a 5k-9k difference. If I were to LB, Lawkeeper would become a 13k offensive his attack, and say boosted by Raopia for 10k, the total becomes a 23k power. Against a 10k Vanguard, that is a Stage 3 difference.

Now switching the numbers, if I were to use Bahr as a boost for a total of 21k, that's still a Stage 3 difference. But what if I was facing a 11k VG, say Dragonic Overlord? Let's change the units: Dual Axe Archdragon post Lawkeeper's LB with a 7k booster. That equals 20k; vs an 11k, that's a 9k difference, so only a 2 Stage Guard is required (so them dropping a 10k guard is easy enough). But if I had used Bahr instead of the 7k booster, then I can hit for 21k, making it a Stage three difference and forcing them two drop two 10ks, three 5ks, or a 10k and a 5k guard. Anything Stage 3 and above often requires a high number of guards or a PG, and when fighting decks that often "break the limit" (not Limit Break), the more PGs the better. IE, Amon and it's ungodly numbers...

Now to why we think it's broken. The 13k meta doesn't worry much about pressure because 13ks are tanks. They easily make attacks from the opponent drop one guard stage, apply little to no pressure. A majority of the English game is mainly 11k, but 13ks are pretty much the flock-to because it makes games easier for the player using the 13k vs the opponent using not-13k who has to work a little harder to win (and those odds begin to dwindle). And we all know how much everyone likes having easy wins.

The only way that makes the Crossrides unbroken is to not use the unit that gives them that extra defensive. That then dwindles them to an 11k VG. The only except in Alice's eyes is /Ultimate Dimensional Robo, Great Daiyusha/, because Dimension Police focuses primarily on the VG power rather than RG power. Everything is to support the VG, so she thinks Crossrides seem to fit here the most. For more information about Great Daiyusha, read this. However, when playing with Crossrides, it is imperative to play with the required card(s) because 13k defensive.

We can't exactly force people to not use Crossrides, we just don't condone them. I mean, you can and all. We just don't really follow it. Like I said, I think Crossrides like DOTE breed bad players because they think it's the end-all solution to everything, but it means diddly-squat if they don't know how to use them and that's a waste of money.

Psyborg explained the problems with Crossrides pretty well. I simply used the V-Mundi method of staging to add to it.

Also, what makes DOTE meta-broken is its effect. Everyone knows that. However, it doesn't exactly have to hit the VG to get off. It has to hit in general, so it can attack an RG, let it hit, and restand. Then quad-drive. Yeah, that's great and all, but what if he attacks the other RG again. Six-drive. Yeah, I just discovered that part recently...

true but there are decks, like royal garmore for instance as that's my deck at the moment, has effectively over 4 8000 boosters. 1000 rearguards are not too hard to get, especially if you have a few grade 3 that do that pert swell. unfortunately, my deck is horrible against dote as kagero eliminates rear guards, another reason kagero's dote is op.

Even if they had special boosters, there are conditions to meet before the effects kick in. They need a very precise field which makes the whole setup rather fragile. Its very obvious what kind of field you want to setup for a royal player. All you need to do is wreck it. Mlb is the only exception to this I feel.

So I bought some BT09 packs today and one of the cards I pulled was Tri-Stinger Dragon and I was wondering how much does that go for and is it good trade material? I have no intentions of making an aqua force deck and was wondering about that card since it was an RR. I was a little disappointed to not pull in GP's for my deck, but that's fine. I got a lot of great nature cards and one was even a starting vanguard which is pretty cool.

So I bought some BT09 packs today and one of the cards I pulled was Tri-Stinger Dragon and I was wondering how much does that go for and is it good trade material?

umm, I pulled tri-stinger myself, and I had trouble getting rid of it. eventually my brother got an aqua force deck. unless you are lucky, I don't think you will be able to trade it. if you can however, most average RR will work for it, nothing staple though.

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