World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Beyblade Random Thoughts

Feb. 04, 2016  4:13 AM
 
Want to throw this off...I recently got the gold driver set and for some reason I find the gold defense driver shows really abnormal balance and aggressiveness on DHD. I suggest just to keep the driver for collection purpose.

On other thought we might want to look into the molds on the layer because when I got my second yellow Spriggan from b-21 the teeths seemed to be easily to turn than my first one.
Feb. 04, 2016  4:22 AM
 
So your gold Defense Driver has bad balance, not abnormally good balance ?
Feb. 04, 2016  4:44 AM
 
It really shows really bad balance....
Feb. 04, 2016  10:26 PM
 
(Feb. 04, 2016  4:44 AM)Stars Wrote: It really shows really bad balance....

I wonder how much fluctuations we will have with molds.
And I wonder if it will suffer from GPS in the long run.
Feb. 04, 2016  11:42 PM
 
I think they should have made more zero g beyblades because they didn't give it much of a chance making maybe 15ish that were in the anime. They could have done much more with it in my opinion.
Feb. 05, 2016  12:28 AM
 
(Feb. 04, 2016  11:42 PM)Flame-Byxis Wrote: I think they should have made more zero g beyblades because they didn't give it much of a chance making maybe 15ish that were in the anime. They could have done much more with it in my opinion.

Yeah, I really would have liked to see the show more and more Zero G Beyblades, yes even the OP synchromes aren't that off putting. I would have liked to see the show actually be good as well.
Feb. 06, 2016  9:25 PM
 
So I opened Xcalibur Force Xtreme this weekend and I am impressed with it, despite not really knowing what to expect from it.

In the months leading up to its release what struck me was the fact that an equivalent tip was never released during the plastic generation (the series which I feel Burst is most similar to, at the moment). Grip and Storm Grip Base are perhaps the most similar Blade Bases, but you have to look to HMS (Grip Flat Core UV) and MFB (RF etc.) for any clear, obvious similarities.

This was interesting to me because of the focus on these two generations' focus on metal contact points: up until this point, we hadn't really seen what this particular form of rubber flat would do in a plastic-orientated metagame. Of course, this combined with the added complexity of the mechanics of Burst made it all the more intriguing! I've written a few thoughts, not in any real structure, below, which could be interesting to discuss.


Height in the Burst Metagame

[Image: HCh5n64.jpg]

I'm continually surprised by the lack of significant height differences in Burst Drivers. Xtreme, which I had erroneously assumed would be taller than many of its other Attack Driver counterparts, is exactly the same height as Accel. Height constraints have been traditionally introduced to compensate for the strength and movement of these tips (whether deliberately or not), but it looks like Takara-Tomy has made a deliberate attempt to keep all Drivers at basically the same height. I'm assuming this because if you look at the design of Xtreme Driver closely, you can see that there is a lot of room for the actual tip to be housed further up (or down) the Driver. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Xtreme and Accel, and essentially all other hitherto released Drivers, are the same height.

I wonder why? Is it because the Burst mechanism doesn't work well when Beys are at different heights? Are they saving height alterations for future releases? It could be that this isn't something they're interested in anymore, but that would seem surprising considering how much of MFB was specifically designed around this, as well as the fact that height was also a strong feature of the plastics metagame.


Xcalibur's Teeth

[Image: LQE3e8W.jpg]

I have also noticed, as well as read many others echoing the same thing, how much more difficult it is to assemble any customisation using Xcalibur as the Layer. I would guess that this in turn makes Xcalibur more difficult to Burst than if it had shorter teeth, obviously, although I don't have any concrete evidence on this at all. Why is Xcalibur designed like this? Is it to compensate for, on initial impressions, pretty impressive attack potential?

Almost everything I've used on Xtreme has been very prone to Bursting, which I've seen being posted elsewhere too. Xtreme has come with a whole new set of risks which its predecessors never really had. Is Takara-Tomy therefore moving towards Beyblades which are more robust?

Somewhere in between all this, you can basically infer that the Burst dynamic can still be developed a lot further. Layers might come out which are exceptionally hard to Burst (we already have Chaos, which is the opposite), and similarly I would guess that there is scope to control Burst rates in the Driver, as well. Right now however, to me at least, the design of Xcalibur's teeth embody the fact that the metagame, and the Burst mechanic in particular, is still very much in its infancy.
Feb. 06, 2016  9:53 PM
 
Xcalibur is not designed to be harder to assemble hah. It is still rather smooth, and the strengthened teeth are actually characteristic of Layers that are qualified as Attack types by TAKARA-TOMY. This is indeed to compensate for the recoil they get when delivering big hits, otherwise they would probably almost self-burst too easily.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:08 PM
 
Quote:I wonder why? Is it because the Burst mechanism doesn't work well when Beys are at different heights?

Almost definitely.

Regarding Xcalibur's teeth, there's another benefit to this design: it's much more resistant to erosion.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:12 PM
 
(Feb. 06, 2016  9:53 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Xcalibur is not designed to be harder to assemble hah. It is still rather smooth, and the strengthened teeth are actually characteristic of Layers that are qualified as Attack types by TAKARA-TOMY. This is indeed to compensate for the recoil they get when delivering big hits, otherwise they would probably almost self-burst too easily.

Was Odin the only Attack or "Striker" layer to have teeth that wasn't sharp? Actually I forgot if it was even sharp or not.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:31 PM
 
No need to say "Striker," they obviously abandoned that terminology before launching the line.

Odin doesn't need sharp teeth because it has few projections the opponent can hit. It's also not really an Attack-type in any way, regardless of what the marketing materials say.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:35 PM
 
(Feb. 06, 2016  11:31 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: No need to say "Striker," they obviously abandoned that terminology before launching the line.

Odin doesn't need sharp teeth because it has few projections the opponent can hit. It's also not really an Attack-type in any way, regardless of what the marketing materials say.

... I know, but Odin is marketed as an Attack Type by what Takara Tomy sees, not us, like I'ved always said and their mentality I always imagine is that "Attack types need sharp teeth".

As for the Striker thing, I'm not even sure why it was used to begin with...
Feb. 06, 2016  11:38 PM
 
It's normal to test different kinds of branding before the final release. It's possible they changed it based on retailer or fan feedback, or they just decided it didn't make sense.

Whether or not Odin is "marketed" as an Attack-type, it's certain that the designers knew it was very round and already difficult to burst. There's no evidence that the teeth designs are based just simply on whatever "type" it is.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:40 PM
 
(Feb. 06, 2016  11:38 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: It's normal to test different kinds of branding before the final release. It's possible they changed it based on retailer or fan feedback, or they just decided it didn't make sense.

Whether or not Odin is "marketed" as an Attack-type, it's certain that the designers knew it was very round and already difficult to burst. There's no evidence that the teeth designs are based just simply on whatever "type" it is.

Then it's a wonder why Spriggan hasn't got sharp teeth considering it's shape.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:42 PM
 
(Feb. 06, 2016  11:40 PM)J.I.N.B.E.E! Wrote: Then it's a wonder why Spriggan hasn't got sharp teeth considering it's shape.

I think TT knows what they're doing for the most part...
But sometimes things slip through the drawing board.
Feb. 06, 2016  11:45 PM
 
(Feb. 06, 2016  11:42 PM)juncction Wrote:
(Feb. 06, 2016  11:40 PM)J.I.N.B.E.E! Wrote: Then it's a wonder why Spriggan hasn't got sharp teeth considering it's shape.

I think TT knows what they're doing for the most part...
But sometimes things slip through the drawing board.

For Burst at least, in MFB there were a lot of bad marketed Defense Type wheels. Though making Basalt unbalanced to not make it OP was a smart move definitely.
Feb. 07, 2016  1:51 PM
 
Bassalt was a very weird and experimental wheel. Its lack of protrusions took away the normal wheel interaction and, while the effect of this was lessened somewhat by its grip texture, that combined most interestingly with the balance issues to make it the first wheel to act purely in the vertical plane with its wobble attacks.
Its outward weight distribution and balance issues somewhat cancelled eachother out with the former providing stamina through balance and the latter taking it away, leaving it a very weighty part with neither traditional attack potential nor amazing stamina and its defence offset by the ease with which it could be made to scrape by attackers.
It was a real interesting balance type that wasn't terrible but didn't fit into any traditional niche. Then people discovered the joys of 230 and its usefulness went through the roof.

Bassalt was, IMO, excellent design and, judging by Zero G and Burst's similar but less extreme lack of balance, I'd say TT liked it too.
Feb. 07, 2016  4:36 PM
 
Honestly, people keep mentioning how Basalt has horrible balance since 2013 or 2014 but yo, that Metal Wheel was awesome since the beginning and you can barely see any issues with its balance. Just look at all the combination threads it has in the Beyblade Customizations forum. You would think that there are balance issues, but there is no reason this comment should pop up everytime it is mentioned considering how well it does. In reality, it has no real issues.
Feb. 07, 2016  4:49 PM
 
(Feb. 07, 2016  4:36 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Honestly, people keep mentioning how Basalt has horrible balance since 2013 or 2014 but yo, that Metal Wheel was awesome since the beginning and you can barely see any issues with its balance. Just look at all the combination threads it has in the Beyblade Customizations forum. You would think that there are balance issues, but there is no reason this comment should pop up everytime it is mentioned considering how well it does. In reality, it has no real issues.

Even though my comment was Takara Tomys INTENTION and not how it actually performs.
Feb. 07, 2016  5:32 PM
 
I am not refering just to today's posts : as I mentioned, comments like that have come from many Members in the last two years.
Feb. 07, 2016  6:13 PM
 
Never thought I'd see the day when people would praise a compact circle with some tiny notches on it as great Beyblade design.
Feb. 07, 2016  6:14 PM
 
(Feb. 07, 2016  5:32 PM)Kai-V Wrote: I am not refering just to today's posts : as I mentioned, comments like that have come from many Members in the last two years.

I see.

I'm also surprised to be complimenting what's almost a second Libra.
Feb. 07, 2016  6:15 PM
 
^ lol, I had actually written "Libra 2.0" in my post but decided to remove it. But the comparison is apt.
Feb. 07, 2016  7:50 PM
 
(Feb. 07, 2016  6:13 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Never thought I'd see the day when people would praise a compact circle with some tiny notches on it as great Beyblade design.

I don't know, I think Basalt has a pretty classy design.

Even game-play wise, it was pretty interesting and different. It was a heavy compact circle that had a chunk missing, causing it to have an uneven weight distribution. It has a really bad solo spin time, but it could beat stamina types, just by grinding and beating them down through sheer weight and the uneven spin, sometimes KOing lighter stamina beyblades.

(Feb. 07, 2016  4:36 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Honestly, people keep mentioning how Basalt has horrible balance since 2013 or 2014 but yo, that Metal Wheel was awesome since the beginning and you can barely see any issues with its balance. Just look at all the combination threads it has in the Beyblade Customizations forum. You would think that there are balance issues, but there is no reason this comment should pop up everytime it is mentioned considering how well it does. In reality, it has no real issues.

Basalt was definitely very strong at the time, but that imbalance is a strength as well as a potential weakness. Does anyone remember what time tornado stallers became popular? I think a good tornado staller could easily beat a stamina/defense Basalt combo just by avoiding contact. I wonder if tornado stallers became more popular earlier in the metagame, then maybe Basalt would not have been as threatening as it was?
Feb. 07, 2016  8:03 PM
 
(Feb. 07, 2016  7:50 PM)-Vulcan- Wrote:
(Feb. 07, 2016  6:13 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Never thought I'd see the day when people would praise a compact circle with some tiny notches on it as great Beyblade design.

I don't know, I think Basalt has a pretty classy design.

Even game-play wise, it was pretty interesting and different. It was a heavy compact circle that had a chunk missing, causing it to have an uneven weight distribution. It has a really bad solo spin time, but it could beat stamina types, just by grinding and beating them down through sheer weight and the uneven spin, sometimes KOing lighter stamina beyblades.

(Feb. 07, 2016  4:36 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Honestly, people keep mentioning how Basalt has horrible balance since 2013 or 2014 but yo, that Metal Wheel was awesome since the beginning and you can barely see any issues with its balance. Just look at all the combination threads it has in the Beyblade Customizations forum. You would think that there are balance issues, but there is no reason this comment should pop up everytime it is mentioned considering how well it does. In reality, it has no real issues.

Basalt was definitely very strong at the time, but that imbalance is a strength as well as a potential weakness. Does anyone remember what time tornado stallers became popular? I think a good tornado staller could easily beat a stamina/defense Basalt combo just by avoiding contact. I wonder if tornado stallers became more popular earlier in the metagame, then maybe Basalt would not have been as threatening as it was?

Tornado Stallers really took off with Phantom Cancer 90MF, because it beat RDF combos (especially left-spin ones) easily.
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