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Beyblade Burst BeyStadium Standard Type: Usable for Tournament Play and Testings?

Aug. 14, 2015  10:15 PM
 
Beyblade Burst BeyStadium Standard Type:
Usable for Tournament Play and Official Testings?

(Aug. 08, 2015  11:55 PM)Taiwo Seigi Wrote: Has anyone tested the current MFB top-tier list in the Burst Standard Type Stadium yet? I wanted to know if results were similar or nearly identical so we can try to legalize it for MFB play. With Attack Types being so expensive and rare, it would be great for bladers with not much money that still want to play and have tournaments in their area.

After Taiwo Seigi had mentioned this in the Beyblade Random Thoughts thread, I had went to go conduct some testings. I had noticed that while the BB-10 and the BeyStadium Standard Type, there are also very similar put aside it's built-in barrier. They are placed differently, but there are still 3 walls and 3 exits.

In terms of dimensions, they are as well. (Click to View)


Testings
Spoiler (Click to View)


Final Thoughts

Overall, very similar results. Even though we had seemed to have received better results from attack in the BB-10, what we should keep in mind is how results — especially with attack — can vary.

Even though this occurred very few times, Beyblades would be KO'ed, hit the walls of the exits and then repel back in stadium; kind of what seems to happen in Zero-G with it's pockets. Even though I find this to be a very small issue, this is also something that should be considered.

Personally, despite that flaw, however, I'd love to see this legalized. As Burst has recently been released, Metal Fight Beyblade products will most likely only get harder to get as time goes on. With that, the BeyStadium Standard type would be a easier, hopefully cheaper stadium to receive for tournament play.


Now, what do you guys think? Is the BeyStadium Standard Type usable for tournament play and official testings?

[Image: Beyblade_Burst_Stadium.png]
Aug. 14, 2015  10:17 PM
 
Nice testing @[Mitsu]
Aug. 14, 2015  10:31 PM
 
I applauded alone in my house when I realized what this topic was about lol

Amazing stuff. Definitely should consider it.
Aug. 14, 2015  10:41 PM
 
Awesome man, thanks for testing. I would have but I was afraid to break it, especially with the big synchromes and whatnot. My opinion is that they are super similar and should be approved. As long as you dare to use big heavy beys in there all the time
Aug. 14, 2015  10:42 PM
 
I brought this up to Kei at the last tournament, but I believe his reasoning was that the measurements were a little too different. However, these results were extremely similar which is quite scary.

I believe it should be legalized (even with the differences in measurements) due to the fact that BB-10's are becoming scarce, and when you do find them they're disgustingly expensive, so to be able to use the Burst stadium which is pretty cheap at the moment, can definitely help a lot of tournament scenes worldwide. However, it's a scary step to take though. Since there can be differences. I think you should do tests against Defense since Defense types will dominate a lot more since the Tornado ridge is a little bigger it may give Defense types a little more of an advantage.

Overall, great testing, I know it's kind of bothersome cause Standard tests take long, so seriously thanks for the tests!

EDIT: I wanted to bring up another point, with Bursts the Beyblades are quite small and so are the grips, so the space provided to launch into is pretty even for both bladers, however when using Standard or Limited customs, it'll be a little harder to launch into the stadium since the Beyblades themselves are quite big and the grips with all the different types of accessories takes up quite a bit of space. Launching into the stadium may be a problem since you have a very limited launch angle.
Aug. 15, 2015  1:16 AM
 
Thanks for the comments, guys! I really appreciate it. Smile

(Aug. 14, 2015  10:42 PM)LMAO Wrote: However, it's a scary step to take though. Since there can be differences. I think you should do tests against Defense since Defense types will dominate a lot more since the Tornado ridge is a little bigger it may give Defense types a little more of an advantage.

Just redid the measurement and it seems like it actually is a bit smaller. Even then, It really doesn't seem like a big difference or issue at all, though. 1 cm is definitely a difference, but not a major one either. I also wouldn't necessarily say that it'd need to be the exact 25 cm of a BB-10.

(Aug. 14, 2015  10:42 PM)LMAO Wrote: EDIT: I wanted to bring up another point, with Bursts the Beyblades are quite small and so are the grips, so the space provided to launch into is pretty even for both bladers, however when using Standard or Limited customs, it'll be a little harder to launch into the stadium since the Beyblades themselves are quite big and the grips with all the different types of accessories takes up quite a bit of space. Launching into the stadium may be a problem since you have a very limited launch angle.

This is a good point, actually. Another disadvantage of using the stadium instead of the BB-10. While it didn't seem to be an issue for me when preforming sliding shoot, when there are two players actually battling, they'd probably have less mobility when deciding on there launching area.
Aug. 15, 2015  1:49 AM
 
Definitely worth considering! Thanks for taking the time to do tests, Mitsu. Personally, I'd like to see some BD145RDF and BD145RSF testing, as those two combinations are relatively common in Standard Format and when combined with a Synchrom are incredibly heavy; I wonder how they would interact with the exits/barriers on the Burst BeyStadium Standard Type. Would they be harder to KO than they already are?

One of the things I don't love about the stadium is how the barrier restricts the space you have to launch in comparison to BB-10, so in some ways it is inferior to it if we are talking about using MFB in it. But the slightly different dimensions and depth do make for an interesting change, so it's definitely something we can think about.
Aug. 15, 2015  1:53 AM
 
To be fair though, we were always misusing BB-10 by not using the barriers in the first place. (Something to keep in mind with all this talk of busted BeyLaunchers, too ...)
Aug. 15, 2015  1:57 AM
 
(Aug. 15, 2015  1:53 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: To be fair though, we were always misusing BB-10 by not using the barriers in the first place. (Something to keep in mind with all this talk of busted BeyLaunchers, too ...)

Hahaha ... fair enough. I forgot those things existed.
Aug. 15, 2015  2:03 AM
 
(Aug. 15, 2015  1:49 AM)Kei Wrote: Definitely worth considering! Thanks for taking the time to do tests, Mitsu. Personally, I'd like to see some BD145RDF and BD145RSF testing, as those two combinations are relatively common in Standard Format and when combined with a Synchrom are incredibly heavy; I wonder how they would interact with the exits/barriers on the Burst BeyStadium Standard Type. Would they be harder to KO than they already are?

Is there anything in specific you'd like me to test against BD145RDF/RSF?

Personally, I don't feel as they'd be any harder to KO even with the different dimensions, nor would repelling back from the barrier walls actually work if KO'ed as it only seems to with lighter Beyblades from what I've seen so far.

And thank you, Scott! Smile
Aug. 15, 2015  2:11 AM
 
(Aug. 15, 2015  2:03 AM)Mitsu Wrote: Is there anything in specific you'd like me to test against BD145RDF/RSF?

Personally, I don't feel as they'd be any harder to KO even with the different dimensions, nor would repelling back from the barrier walls actually work if KO'ed as it only seems to with lighter Beyblades from what I've seen so far.

I'd test various Attack combos against it. Whatever you think is best. Thanks!

You might be right, but regardless I think it's worth testing because of how prevalent BD145RDF/RSF is. If we're going to consider legalizing a Stadium, we should have tests done using as many of the common combinations as possible so we can paint a more complete picture of how it performs. Testing with Flash was great, but realistically, the chances of running into Flash at a Standard tournament these days are far less than running into BD145RDF or BD145RSF.
Aug. 15, 2015  2:30 AM
 
Personally, I like having a lot of space when I'm launching because other bladers tend to try to Gattyaki when they know exactly where you're going to launch. It's annoying but more experienced users tend to win matches because of this.

More space = more options on where to launch.
Aug. 15, 2015  3:06 AM
 
The barrier will likely make it more difficult to perform gattyaki, too.
Aug. 15, 2015  3:21 AM
 
Whoa, thanks for the tests Mitsu! The two do seem pretty similar, and I was thinking of testing Burst in the BB-10 but I don't have any Attack types. I don't have a Burst Stadium myself so I can't measure, but is it really 4.5 inches deep? I'm assuming you meant to type centimeters because that's like 4 times as deep as the BB-10. From the pictures and videos I've seen the exits seemed a little smaller compared to the BB-10 and your measurements confirm that (well proportionally at least). Did you notice any more wall saves than usual? I'd also like to see some MF tests to see how the Tornado Ridges compare.

My biggest concern, like others have said, is the barrier on top. Similarly to them I'd imagine it restricts launching space and the angles you can Sliding Shoot at (especially with all the extra stuff people put on their launchers). Although Upper Smash is barely existent in MFB anymore were there any hits where one Beyblade launched another only to have it "wall saved" by the top rim of the cover? Did the taller customs (F230GCF) seem to hit the wall above the B-Pits/exits and bounce back in when shorter customs would have been KOed?

This doesn't have to do with the stadium comparisons but still caught my eye: if the logic for RF-based Defense holds true, that the Beyblade's momentum will cancel out its proximity to the edge of the Stadium when taking hits, why did the F230GCF combos lose more often than the stationary Stamina combos? I get that GCF has worse recoil control than RF but surely it should be able to stop the Attack type's momentum with a head on collision (especially in Genbull Genbull's case, what with the 20g or so weight advantage and decent Smash on the bottom Wheel)?
Aug. 15, 2015  4:18 AM
 
Nice! Thanks for the tests, I really wanted to use this as my BB-10 alternative since they're now so damn expensive and I don't own one.
Aug. 15, 2015  4:31 AM
 
Since I provided the measurements for the BeyStadium Attack Type on Beywiki, here are just the non-approximate measurements for the BeyStadium Standard Type (Burst) :


Diameter: 37,2 cm (including extended barriers).
Tornado Ridge Diameter: 25 cm.
Wall Length: 18 cm.
Exit Length: 16 cm (box is 14 cm long).
Depth: 3 cm deep.
Cover height: 7 cm (above stadium floor).
Top cover overhang: 3 cm.
Tornado Ridge height depth: 2 cm.
Total stadium height: 11.5 cm.

The depth is calculated based on the centre of the stadium, which does not really touch the floor like the rest of the stadium's structure.

Not all measurements are relevant to this topic, which is great by the way, but I just wanted to 'officialise' some of the data.
Aug. 15, 2015  1:56 PM
 
Great job. I honestly don't have an opinion because I havnt tried out the b-09 yet so I don't know how different they actually are when battling in person. But I'd like to see this happen. I think it would be great to bump up the tournaments hosted by people who havnt played in a while and don't have any legal mfb stadiums. And these are cheap so I think it will bump up tournament numbers by people who don't normally do so.
Aug. 15, 2015  2:05 PM
 
I will able to do some more test to confirm or unconfirm these results but i'm sure it will do similar results too.
Aug. 15, 2015  11:24 PM
 
In my opinion,


I think the Burst Standard Stadium has a few shortcomings that can make it drastically different from the Attack Type Stadium (most of which are already listed). And because of the differences, it shouldn't be used as an official tournament stadium beyond burst.


1) The cover that's on the Burst Standard Type limits the launching room. People put all kinds of attachments on their launchers, and that reduces the space even further. Unless there can be some type of standardization on what is allowed on launchers (imo you shouldn't be allowed to put anything on them other than your launcher), then there will be space constraints that aren't present in the Attack Type Stadium which limit the variety of launch and type of launch.

2) The height of the cover on the Burst Standard Type increases the height of which Beyblades are launched from. Which can result in either bouncing or collisions mid air (especially for MFB's extremely heavy synchromes). The lack of the cover in the Attack Type stadium allows you to launch much lower to the floor which again gives you more options.

3) The rebound, from the exit holes will negatively impact attack types and randomly reduce their efficiency. Attack types are already pretty risky to use, but there have been times where the rebound on the Zero-G stadium has denied me a KO by the pocket reflecting the exiting bey back into the stadium. As someone who uses attack types frequently I feel like the Burst Standard stadium's additional walls add another layer of randomness that cannot be accounted for. This random factor only hurts attack types. If a stamina or defense type were to be knocked into the penalty pocket and then rebound back into the stadium, it will probably still have enough spin to win.... but if an attack type were to recoil into the penalty pocket and rebound back in it will lose a ton of spin and have no chance of winning.




One thing that would make it closer to the attack type stadium is to count the exiting rebounds as KO's.
Aug. 16, 2015  12:04 AM
 
(Aug. 15, 2015  11:24 PM)juncction Wrote: 3) The rebound, from the exit holes will negatively impact attack types and randomly reduce their efficiency. Attack types are already pretty risky to use, but there have been times where the rebound on the Zero-G stadium has denied me a KO by the pocket reflecting the exiting bey back into the stadium. As someone who uses attack types frequently I feel like the Burst Standard stadium's additional walls add another layer of randomness that cannot be accounted for. This random factor only hurts attack types. If a stamina or defense type were to be knocked into the penalty pocket and then rebound back into the stadium, it will probably still have enough spin to win.... but if an attack type were to recoil into the penalty pocket and rebound back in it will lose a ton of spin and have no chance of winning.

Both would have been knocked out in a more traditional stadium though. Furthermore, the Attack type will not lose any more spin than the Stamina type would in your example, it would just lose its aggressive momentum, but that is up to you to choose a Bottom like MF that still has a chance at winning a small stamina battle at the end of the match.

I suppose that you could indeed count them as knockouts though, exceptionally.
Aug. 16, 2015  12:06 AM
 
Haven't gotten to post my thoughts. I think it definitely has a chance of working out, hopefully we can see more tests soon enough. I'll try to contribute once I get mine.
Aug. 16, 2015  8:07 AM
 
I tested wing pegasis90wf and wyvang balro R145r2f about 30 times in this stadium the other day(on solid ground) and only saw wing get bounced back in by the shield one time(he was ko'd at least 50% of the time). I don't think it will be too much of a problem competitively. I think we should just call it a KO like Kai-V said.
Aug. 16, 2015  8:36 AM
 
(Aug. 15, 2015  2:11 AM)Kei Wrote: I'd test various Attack combos against it. Whatever you think is best. Thanks!

Went ahead and tested with MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RDF, RSF and RF (not necessarily to test in the burst stadium but for it's defense purpose) against MF-H Flash Orion S130R2F.

Spoiler (Click to View)

Wombat Wrote:Did the taller customs (F230GCF) seem to hit the wall above the B-Pits/exits and bounce back in when shorter customs would have been KOed?

I don't recall it happening with Genbull Genbull F230GCF because of it's weight (it really only seemed to happen to lighter Beyblades even at a shorter height or ones with recoil like Flash) but it did with Scythe Cancer F230GCF.

Wombat Wrote:This doesn't have to do with the stadium comparisons but still caught my eye: if the logic for RF-based Defense holds true, that the Beyblade's momentum will cancel out its proximity to the edge of the Stadium when taking hits, why did the F230GCF combos lose more often than the stationary Stamina combos? I get that GCF has worse recoil control than RF but surely it should be able to stop the Attack type's momentum with a head on collision (especially in Genbull Genbull's case, what with the 20g or so weight advantage and decent Smash on the bottom Wheel)?

I don't mean to jump to conclusions at all here, but again, results with attack do vary. A bit of it could have been the condition of my R2F after quite a bit of usage, too.

I'll go ahead and redo some tests if you'd like, Wombat.

(Aug. 15, 2015  11:24 PM)juncction Wrote: In my opinion,


I think the Burst Standard Stadium has a few shortcomings that can make it drastically different from the Attack Type Stadium (most of which are already listed). And because of the differences, it shouldn't be used as an official tournament stadium beyond burst.


1) The cover that's on the Burst Standard Type limits the launching room. People put all kinds of attachments on their launchers, and that reduces the space even further. Unless there can be some type of standardization on what is allowed on launchers (imo you shouldn't be allowed to put anything on them other than your launcher), then there will be space constraints that aren't present in the Attack Type Stadium which limit the variety of launch and type of launch.

2) The height of the cover on the Burst Standard Type increases the height of which Beyblades are launched from. Which can result in either bouncing or collisions mid air (especially for MFB's extremely heavy synchromes). The lack of the cover in the Attack Type stadium allows you to launch much lower to the floor which again gives you more options.

3) The rebound, from the exit holes will negatively impact attack types and randomly reduce their efficiency. Attack types are already pretty risky to use, but there have been times where the rebound on the Zero-G stadium has denied me a KO by the pocket reflecting the exiting bey back into the stadium. As someone who uses attack types frequently I feel like the Burst Standard stadium's additional walls add another layer of randomness that cannot be accounted for. This random factor only hurts attack types. If a stamina or defense type were to be knocked into the penalty pocket and then rebound back into the stadium, it will probably still have enough spin to win.... but if an attack type were to recoil into the penalty pocket and rebound back in it will lose a ton of spin and have no chance of winning.

Thank you for your opinion, a lot of these are just my thoughts.

Rebounds seemed to happen on very little occasion, but it's still something to keep into consideration as they could potentially be used to an advantage. Like said by Kai-V, we can consider them as knockouts, but at the same time, however, judges would really need to keep a close eye out to see if they occur.
Aug. 16, 2015  8:51 AM
 
I personally would not mind the stadium being legal with MFB beys but that cover nerfing attack types really bothers me because stamina will be dominant. Bouncing back will be the biggest issue with this. This is not a problem with burst because such high impacts will probably just make the bey burst, while in MFB it could be the only hit that the attack type can get to actually get a KO. This stadium would just put a whole other definition to wall save haha.
Aug. 18, 2015  9:04 PM
 
I wanted to bring up some other important points about the Burst Standard type that I haven't discussed yet that make it not suitable for formats beyond burst, and it will continue from my previous post:



4) Regarding the top cover again, the cover dimensions makes the walls dramatically further apart than in the Attack Stadium. I haven't personally measured the stadium (I know there are dimensions up there) but, this is referring to the distance between the playable ground area and the 'wall.' The walls on the Burst Standard Stadium are about half an inch further away than the Attack stadium. While it didn't create too many differences in my tests, it is something to note, that beyblades will have to travel slightly further when flower patterning and bouncing against the walls. This again can negatively affect attack types as they have to travel further to the wall and to the opposing beyblade thus reducing their stamina compared to an Attack Type Stadium.

5) The cover's lip sometimes prevents upper smashes out of the stadium over walls. This I've noticed in the limited format when using a tall stamina/defense and a mid-height attacker. If the stamina is around the outside, and the attack type hits it just right, it will lift it into the lip and then the stamina will rebound back into the stadium. The occurrence is not common of course as MFB really doesn't have a lot of upper smash. This is also something that can be hard to judge mostly because the interaction happens quickly and not very often. Also, it 's hard to say if it would have flown out over the top or not since the cover is there. I feel like the lip is a non-factor currently in Beyblade Burst, because they too lack upper but a pretty big difference in other formats.

6) The cover is not secure, and moves a little bit. I noticed that even with the clips properly secured and fully in, the cover has some give and moves around quite a bit. In the Attack Stadium, the walls are one with the floor and the walls never change since they're all one piece. In the Burst Standard type, you can actually shift the walls around slightly, about a couple cm. This is pretty huge if you ask me. As beyblades bounce off the stadium 'walls,' (the top cover), will actively change the play area. Also, the shifting cover could absorb some of the impacts (more of a speculation).