Looking forward to making a video that teaches how to research and discover strong customizations, instead of simply listing all the best combos 
A Case for a New Format.
Poll: Synchromeless Format?
| I like the format. |
|
25 |
| I don't like the format. |
|
2 |
| I would rather have 4D only Format. |
|
3 |
| Turtles are cool. |
|
12 |
| Total: | 100% | 42 vote(s) |
Yeah I think it will be better in this way. New players have just to look at this list and doesn't really try something new to be strong. probably they miss some knowledge or too lazy to make themself or just for fun to be equal with old players. we have to re-ignite the creation of customization.
I would love this but what would it be called? Huh? I am happy and will try to do testings once the format starts (which I hope it does!!)
(Sep. 15, 2015 11:56 PM)Nocto Wrote: 4D was a series that either released useless Beyblades or Beyblades that outclassed the previous ones. Aside from niche combinations, you'll only have one real Metal wheel at the top. Basalt can't compete with Death (in Defense), Scythe can't compete with Phantom and VariAres can't compete with Blitz.
But then, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case for a lot of things in Synchrome as well? And pretty much every format that exists? there wouldn't be a meta-game if parts didn't outclass others. Wyvang Wyvang is amazing at attack. F230 is broken. Reviser Dragooon was pretty good.
(Sep. 15, 2015 10:40 PM)Echizen Wrote: This is a great idea, but there are several flaws...
Let's start with first and obvious one aside from play factors; there are lots of members, including me, purchasing multiple of those $40 Zero-G Synchrome sets. Me personally, have bought two of each. If you ban synchrome that's $160 I cannot use towards my benefit in the Standard format. I know people like TheBlackDragon(or whatever his new name is, Dragon I think?) have probably bought like 10 of both of those sets or something crazy like that. That's a lot of money spent thats not going toward Standard usage. This may cause people to switch over to Zero-G and not play standard for that reason.
I think that even if you are spending "x" amount of money on this game, I'm sorry that you spent that much money that can't be invested in certain (not all!) future tournaments. That being said, I strongly disagree with such mentality. This is a hobby in which you can spend however much or little money you want, and that no one is forcing you to buy multiple of those sets, let alone to be competitive. In format discussions like this, I don't believe this type of argument is all that relevant.
Now, I'm just going to give my 2cents, though obviously most of this is going to be regurgitated conversation.
Like @[LMAO] said, I would really appreciate this type of format, and I believe I mentioned it to him and @[Kei] pretty much right as Limited format came out. That being said I understand where everyone else who is against this thread is coming from. This becomes a case of "In standard there is too many strong stuff, and only a certain meta which wins" Okay! So let's make Limited! And then it's essentially Déjà vu all over again, which has now lead to a new format of Limited which you're proposing. At what point do we have a new format for each individual strong release?
I would be interested in playing this type of format more than current limited, but that's only because I liked this meta more.
Tl;dr: In the grand scheme of the WBO and how viable this is, disregarding personal bias, I think it's not a wise choice.
(Sep. 17, 2015 1:34 AM)Priscient Wrote:(Sep. 15, 2015 11:56 PM)Nocto Wrote: 4D was a series that either released useless Beyblades or Beyblades that outclassed the previous ones. Aside from niche combinations, you'll only have one real Metal wheel at the top. Basalt can't compete with Death (in Defense), Scythe can't compete with Phantom and VariAres can't compete with Blitz.
But then, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case for a lot of things in Synchrome as well? And pretty much every format that exists? there wouldn't be a meta-game if parts didn't outclass others. Wyvang Wyvang is amazing at attack. F230 is broken. Reviser Dragooon was pretty good.
I apologise for being off-topic but you just summed up three of the many reasons I hate top-tier synchrome combos or synchromes in general. That is why I hate Wyvang out of spite, it's too good and has people worshiping it along with the overrated Dragooon. F230 is just that "perfect" track that I just love to hate.
Definitely have a Synchromeless format (even though I don't go to tournaments).
I think a lot of people are just voting for that last choice for fun 
.
I love the idea of a Sychromless format, but Zero-G would still mostly dominate it in my opinion. I would create a Zero-G format without Synchromes, and a 4D-only format to really make all beyblade parts have a place in some part of the metagame. The biggest problem that most members feel is that this would complicate the whole system drastically, which may be true.
However, I feel that there should be multiple limited format no matter how complicated it gets. I just want a game in which every part can be used in some format. With multiple limited formats (Non-Synchrome w/Zero-G Only, 4D only, Metal Fusion & Masters only, etc.) That would really make it much more fun because the way players get ranked would be much more interesting.
The #1 blader would have to be able to survive in various formats and be able to have all good parts which is virtually impossible. This means that the BeyRanking system would become much more competitive and the best bladers would have to have a knowledge of all of Beyblade, rather than just one who is specifically good in Zero-G or MFB and etc.
.I love the idea of a Sychromless format, but Zero-G would still mostly dominate it in my opinion. I would create a Zero-G format without Synchromes, and a 4D-only format to really make all beyblade parts have a place in some part of the metagame. The biggest problem that most members feel is that this would complicate the whole system drastically, which may be true.
However, I feel that there should be multiple limited format no matter how complicated it gets. I just want a game in which every part can be used in some format. With multiple limited formats (Non-Synchrome w/Zero-G Only, 4D only, Metal Fusion & Masters only, etc.) That would really make it much more fun because the way players get ranked would be much more interesting.
The #1 blader would have to be able to survive in various formats and be able to have all good parts which is virtually impossible. This means that the BeyRanking system would become much more competitive and the best bladers would have to have a knowledge of all of Beyblade, rather than just one who is specifically good in Zero-G or MFB and etc.
(Sep. 16, 2015 6:30 PM)Cake Wrote:(Sep. 16, 2015 4:43 PM)Neo Wrote: Question. Considering I haven't really been to but one tournament, (didn't help that I was studying Plastics at the time) I have no idea what kind of Beyblades people usually play.
Is there anyone that comes to a tournament using something in Standard that is completely unviable? Such as a combo using a Crystal Wheel, or possibly some kid using his super powerful Strom Peegasoous?
I got beaten by a Rock Aquario 125B once, it was hilarious. And I know that some people just don't have the parts or experience to make competitive combos - I've helped several people (usually younger or newer Bladers) learn to make and use competitive customizations.
Ah, okay.
I guess it's somewhat viable.
But at the same time; there are 3 MFB formats right now.. Do we need a 4th?
![[Image: 8mgpgcv.jpeg]](https://i.imgur.com/8mgpgcv.jpeg)
[/font]
(Sep. 17, 2015 2:24 AM)Momohimi Wrote:(Sep. 17, 2015 1:34 AM)Priscient Wrote:(Sep. 15, 2015 11:56 PM)Nocto Wrote: 4D was a series that either released useless Beyblades or Beyblades that outclassed the previous ones. Aside from niche combinations, you'll only have one real Metal wheel at the top. Basalt can't compete with Death (in Defense), Scythe can't compete with Phantom and VariAres can't compete with Blitz.
But then, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case for a lot of things in Synchrome as well? And pretty much every format that exists? there wouldn't be a meta-game if parts didn't outclass others. Wyvang Wyvang is amazing at attack. F230 is broken. Reviser Dragooon was pretty good.
I apologise for being off-topic but you just summed up three of the many reasons I hate top-tier synchrome combos or synchromes in general. That is why I hate Wyvang out of spite, it's too good and has people worshiping it along with the overrated Dragooon. F230 is just that "perfect" track that I just love to hate.
Definitely have a Synchromeless format (even though I don't go to tournaments).
Limited format is already void of Synchromes.
(Sep. 17, 2015 5:12 AM)Kai-V Wrote:(Sep. 17, 2015 2:24 AM)Momohimi Wrote:(Sep. 17, 2015 1:34 AM)Priscient Wrote: But then, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case for a lot of things in Synchrome as well? And pretty much every format that exists? there wouldn't be a meta-game if parts didn't outclass others. Wyvang Wyvang is amazing at attack. F230 is broken. Reviser Dragooon was pretty good.
I apologise for being off-topic but you just summed up three of the many reasons I hate top-tier synchrome combos or synchromes in general. That is why I hate Wyvang out of spite, it's too good and has people worshiping it along with the overrated Dragooon. F230 is just that "perfect" track that I just love to hate.
Definitely have a Synchromeless format (even though I don't go to tournaments).
Limited format is already void of Synchromes.
Wanted to add that this new format doesn't suggest F230 to be banned, so even if it's "too perfect" it isn't a reason to why you should ban synchroms
Also if any synchrom (like Wyvang Wyvang) would be THAT overpowered, it would be banned, like libra at the time, am I right?
(Sep. 17, 2015 1:56 PM)Izhkoort Wrote:(Sep. 17, 2015 5:12 AM)Kai-V Wrote:(Sep. 17, 2015 2:24 AM)Momohimi Wrote: I apologise for being off-topic but you just summed up three of the many reasons I hate top-tier synchrome combos or synchromes in general. That is why I hate Wyvang out of spite, it's too good and has people worshiping it along with the overrated Dragooon. F230 is just that "perfect" track that I just love to hate.
Definitely have a Synchromeless format (even though I don't go to tournaments).
Limited format is already void of Synchromes.
Wanted to add that this new format doesn't suggest F230 to be banned, so even if it's "too perfect" it isn't a reason to why you should ban synchroms
Also if any synchrom (like Wyvang Wyvang) would be THAT overpowered, it would be banned, like libra at the time, am I right?
I know F230 doesn't always associate with synchroms, but they have been used a lot with synchrom combos.
Also, I didn't say to ban F230, I just said that I hated it. In fact, I hope that Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF would go away.
For the Wyvang Wyvang thing, I guess you are right but I just hate it with a passion and you cannot make me change my mind on that god forsaken Chrome Wheel.
(Sep. 17, 2015 2:24 PM)Momohimi Wrote:I know F230 doesn't always associate with synchroms, but they have been used a lot with synchrom combos.Spoiler (Click to View)
Also, I didn't say to ban F230, I just said that I hated it. In fact, I hope that Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF would go away.
For the Wyvang Wyvang thing, I guess you are right but I just hate it with a passion and you cannot make me change my mind on that god forsaken Chrome Wheel.
yeah, that's true, but what I mean is that it's not a real reason tu make ANOTHER format, has it was said, MFB already has 3 formats
I don't like myself how synchrom dominate the top tier list, but it is more variated if you search for the old lists, I think I could say it's a little unfair to make a format because "synchroms dominate" when they have been really helpful to the meta, there are options has house rules or limited for that
Aside from all that I think if people deside this is the best, it should be because of the parts they could use and how versatible would be the format, not because "I don't like X"
If the top tier and/or the winning combos are all more or less the same, that wouldn't be healthier, because it's maintaining a format that doesn't allow variety
(Sep. 17, 2015 2:50 PM)Izhkoort Wrote:(Sep. 17, 2015 2:24 PM)Momohimi Wrote:I know F230 doesn't always associate with synchroms, but they have been used a lot with synchrom combos.Spoiler (Click to View)
Also, I didn't say to ban F230, I just said that I hated it. In fact, I hope that Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF would go away.
For the Wyvang Wyvang thing, I guess you are right but I just hate it with a passion and you cannot make me change my mind on that god forsaken Chrome Wheel.
yeah, that's true, but what I mean is that it's not a real reason tu make ANOTHER format, has it was said, MFB already has 3 formats
I don't like myself how synchrom dominate the top tier list, but it is more variated if you search for the old lists, I think I could say it's a little unfair to make a format because "synchroms dominate" when they have been really helpful to the meta, there are options has house rules or limited for that
Aside from all that I think if people deside this is the best, it should be because of the parts they could use and how versatible would be the format, not because "I don't like X"
If the top tier and/or the winning combos are all more or less the same, that wouldn't be healthier, because it's maintaining a format that doesn't allow variety
I just wish that Zero G provided more Chrome Wheels so it would vary. Okay, I'm getting way off-topic here.
Slightly on-topic due to the fact of the polls results:
It seems the turtle votes are doing moderately well, 7 to 15...The other two aren't all that important to me anyway. Though I will acknowledge the 1 vote, lol.
lolgettingawaywiththisbecauseinthepoll!wachagonnado!
It seems the turtle votes are doing moderately well, 7 to 15...The other two aren't all that important to me anyway. Though I will acknowledge the 1 vote, lol.
lolgettingawaywiththisbecauseinthepoll!wachagonnado!
This thread. Not dead.
I'd take this one step further. Consider: we probably have detailed records of all the top teir lists throughout MFB history. Some maths-guru could probably adjust the historic tier lists to accomodate the newer parts (not banned by this proposed format) then figure out what the revised top tier list would be - using nothing but statistics we've already established. No need to even play!
My point is; no matter which format you devise, you'll always get stuck with a new top teir list. There are a limited number of not-banned components either way - and some are just better than others. The top teir list may be different compared to Limited or Standard - but there'll still be a top tier list and we'll still compile it just the same way we always have. With the list complete, you're back at sqaure one.
I originally thought half the point of Limited was to have a changeable ban list which would keep the game fresh. That was a solid concept. Not seeing it so much in practice though. Just needs more love.
I like your new format, juncction. But we should be looking at Limited for these sorts of innovative revisions. I'd like to see Limited un-ban a few 'choice' things and shake the game up before we get stuck in a whole new format. But then, I wouldn't have considered that notion without this thread - and to me, any discussion of rules and revisions is a good discussion. Well written, too.
If you do this, I will watch. If it actually works, I will smile.
(Sep. 16, 2015 12:56 AM)Kai-V Wrote: ... this would just be too similar to what it was like before BB-119 was released (all parts proposed to be banned are BB-119+), and I was there then and giving me some Zero-G Tracks and Bottoms would not make much of a difference in terms of enjoyment ... The Limited format is already just a bad blast from the past to me with few Chrome Wheels and Crystal Wheels getting use.
I'd take this one step further. Consider: we probably have detailed records of all the top teir lists throughout MFB history. Some maths-guru could probably adjust the historic tier lists to accomodate the newer parts (not banned by this proposed format) then figure out what the revised top tier list would be - using nothing but statistics we've already established. No need to even play!
My point is; no matter which format you devise, you'll always get stuck with a new top teir list. There are a limited number of not-banned components either way - and some are just better than others. The top teir list may be different compared to Limited or Standard - but there'll still be a top tier list and we'll still compile it just the same way we always have. With the list complete, you're back at sqaure one.
I originally thought half the point of Limited was to have a changeable ban list which would keep the game fresh. That was a solid concept. Not seeing it so much in practice though. Just needs more love.
I like your new format, juncction. But we should be looking at Limited for these sorts of innovative revisions. I'd like to see Limited un-ban a few 'choice' things and shake the game up before we get stuck in a whole new format. But then, I wouldn't have considered that notion without this thread - and to me, any discussion of rules and revisions is a good discussion. Well written, too.
(Sep. 16, 2015 7:18 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Looking forward to making a video that teaches how to research and discover strong customizations, instead of simply listing all the best combos
If you do this, I will watch. If it actually works, I will smile.
![[Image: XloAViQ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/XloAViQ.png)
Then you could say I was commenting on the premise of this proposal : it would be almost exactly like going back to September 2011, or perhaps early October 2011. Now, if you wanted to introduce varied banlists later on, that is another story, but I think we would ultimately get way too close to Limited anyway.
Yeah, agreed. Imagine:
A set of simple guidelines for "historic" beyblade battles. Such guidelines would include per-month release lists from MFB's revival until Zero-G's retirement. Crucially, it would also include ban-lists and top tier lists for each of those months. With these guidelines, anyone who wanted to play beyblade as it was in 2011 could do just that.
It can often be hard for newcomers to see why "the rules" are the way they are now - if they haven't already sat through the gradual formation and testing of those ruels. It takes faith. With a system like the above, it would be very simple: go and play some historic games and THEN see how you feel. I pity the person putting together the lists though. Shotgun not.
I also find it curious how many people don't feel the presence of Zero-G tracks and tips in the older product line would make that big a difference to the results. That is a curious notion - and not the experience I've had in my own studies.
A set of simple guidelines for "historic" beyblade battles. Such guidelines would include per-month release lists from MFB's revival until Zero-G's retirement. Crucially, it would also include ban-lists and top tier lists for each of those months. With these guidelines, anyone who wanted to play beyblade as it was in 2011 could do just that.
It can often be hard for newcomers to see why "the rules" are the way they are now - if they haven't already sat through the gradual formation and testing of those ruels. It takes faith. With a system like the above, it would be very simple: go and play some historic games and THEN see how you feel. I pity the person putting together the lists though. Shotgun not.
I also find it curious how many people don't feel the presence of Zero-G tracks and tips in the older product line would make that big a difference to the results. That is a curious notion - and not the experience I've had in my own studies.