A Case for a New Format.

Poll: Synchromeless Format?

I like the format.
63.64%
21
I don't like the format.
6.06%
2
I would rather have 4D only Format.
3.03%
1
Turtles are cool.
27.27%
9
Total: 100% 33 vote(s)

Preface:
There are two main formats for the World Beyblade Organization for Metal Fight Beyblade in the BB-10 Attack Stadium and I think there are a lot of pretty interesting concepts for each but, I would like to propose a new format! The current formats we have are:

- Standard [STD]:
Which encompasses no ban list, and allows pretty much any piece in the game. This format is a great format but it is quite heavy and tends to favor stamina and spin equalization.

- Limited [LTD]:
Which has a strict ban list, and creates new avenues for strategies and creativity. This format is constantly changing and the ban lists are always rotating for new ideas.

My my biggest issue with the formats however, is that there are a large amount of wheels and pieces that are not represented and not used and I think it would be neat if different wheels were used and different strategies were used in a way that isn't shown in STD/LTD. Which is why this format is being proposed.


Mission:
The Synchromeless Format [SCL] is a format designed to represent the many dominant beyblades that are no longer used and to promote creativity in the Beyblade world while removing what people felt dominated Metal Fight Beyblade which were: Synchromes. The Synchromeless format will allow every release in Metal Fight Beyblade including tracks and tips from Zero-G/Shogun Steel. The aim is to create a sense of nostalgia yet still present a massive amount of new strategy and exploration to the game and allow different parts to be used. I know there are always powerful parts in a particular format, but I think it's possible to create an interesting and different enough format than the existing ones with the plethora of parts available in this format.

The reason for the inclusion of Zero-G parts and tracks is because it removes the dominance and power of BD145 and translates it to two other pieces (E230/SA165). If we removed Zero-g Parts then it will result in an instant BD145 ban, which makes SCL a LTD 2.0. This is something that I am not aiming for. My idea for the format is about many things, such as: the mixture of viable weight classes that can be used together which ranges from Meteo to Basalt for example, the combination of interesting track/tip combinations you can't use in limited which greatly changes how you play the game such as BD145/SA165/E230, the mind games involving multi-spin Beyblades like Variares/Gravity which aren't represented in either format, and mostly plastic contact combinations like LLDTank and Gravity. I understand the imbalances of the design and magnitude of 'bad' wheels that were released in this time were plentiful... but I feel like this format can be crafted into an interesting independent self-standing format with enough work! Gasp

I think creativity is key to this format and other formats and there are many parts that have never really been truly tested with other parts which could lead to lots of fun experiments. By throwing a large amount of possibility in a pool of uncertainty; the format can end up being either very volatile or very successful. The ban list can always accommodate for imbalances too!


What is a Synchrome?
A Synchrome is a Beyblade system released in Zero-G/Shogun Steel. It allows you to place any two metal wheels in that series together to make an even heavier wheel. The weight alone was enough to render a large majority of the older wheels useless. This part of system is what we intend to ban in this format. This way, we can represent other other wheels, and possibly get really interesting strategies going!



Ban list:
The ban list is very short, as it aims to promote the most creativity out of the gate, while still being simple and easy to read and understand. These are the things banned in this format. You cannot use these.

The mentality behind such a small ban list, is because it provides ease of reading and simplicity of explaining the format, which is something that has been a difficult thing to do in the limited format for example. My experience with the Limited format is that it's harder to un-ban something than to outright ban it. Which is why everything is pretty much un-banned at the start.




Discussion:
This section is intended for more advanced strategy, discussion, and ideas behind the format.

- But what about Spin Equalization problems with SA165 and F230 not being banned?
These are only threats in standard format because standard is so heavy and does not have a way of knocking things out easily. This format has more smash oriented wheels that can knock these out with ease.

- What about RDF itself or BD145/SA165 RDF?
I think there is a lot of fear around this part, and I think it would be monitored of course. I can understand it's issue, being an extremely versatile part that can be used on anything and everything and can result in a lot of defaulting to just spamming that part.

- What about Zero-G Crystal+Chrome wheel combos?
Unfortunately, they will be left in the dust much like all of the lighter Beyblades that can be used in this format. Those are best left in Limited format and they have a place there.







Simple right? That's pretty much the format.



I wanted to keep it as simple and easy as possible, so it can be easily adapted, yet have lots of strategy and exploration. Let me know what you think! Those are my ideas, let me know if you think there's something that should be changed or reasons why you don't think this format will work Gasp. This format requires a lot of testing and discussion before it can go anywhere, so feel free to try it out if you want! I'm open to suggestions!
Would've voted Turtles are cool...but I actually am interested in this.
Synchromes seem to dominate Standard from my understanding?
(Sep. 15, 2015  6:58 PM)Neo Wrote: Would've voted Turtles are cool...but I actually am interested in this.
Synchromes seem to dominate Standard from my understanding?

Correct. Synchromes are very powerful. If you look at the Competitive Standard Format list. There are really only three wheels aside from Synchromes that can even compete, as seen here:


http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Competit...bos--20385
I think the dominating wheels would be Phantom for stamina, Basalt for defense and Variares for attack right? Well I hear attack dominating the meta was healthy and seeing as Variares destroys Basalt IIRC, this isn't too bad.
So like 4d but with zerog tracks and tips? I can get behind this, 4D was my favorite line in MFB
Awesome. I am all for this. Maybe ban phantom too since it has use in standard and would be dominant?
(Sep. 15, 2015  7:03 PM)J.I.N.B.E.E! Wrote: I think the dominating wheels would be Phantom for stamina, Basalt for defense and Variares for attack right? Well I hear attack dominating the meta was healthy and seeing as Variares destroys Basalt IIRC, this isn't too bad.

Correct.


(Sep. 15, 2015  7:14 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: Awesome. I am all for this. Maybe ban phantom too since it has use in standard and would be dominant?

From my rough tests, I found that Phantom/Duo gets knocked out pretty easily due to the amount of smash that's present in this format. The only reason why Duo was banned and Phantom wasn't was because Phantom is pretty much purely stamina driven and useful in stamina situations. Duo can be used in Defense and Stamina.
Actually I forgot, there's also the Death wheel, would you ban that one?
(Sep. 15, 2015  7:18 PM)J.I.N.B.E.E! Wrote: Actually I forgot, there's also the Death wheel, would you ban that one?

Edit: After some tests, I decided to ban it as well.
I really like this idea since it opens up the game more, but my thing is how much more? Will it be enough to the point where multiple attack Metal wheels will be able to be used, or for defense and stamina in that case? I just don't want to see a meta-game dominated by the same wheels.

But then again, I took a long hiatus after the release of 4D, the versatility of each Metal Wheel could make the game interesting...
Didn't something similar draw buzz a while back? It's a cool idea, but I don't think it's worth making a format for it. Limited already exists and if a host wants this, they can just request a "house ban", like I have in the past.
Hate to break it to you but there will always be pieces that are unplayable. This format just sheds some light on a few (and some like Phantom and Death are still even viable in Standard), but really it still leaves a ton of wheels in the dust. If this became an actual format don't you think some people would try to make another format similar and be like "Let's ban the wheels that dominate this format and standard. VariAres and Blitz will be the best for attack, Big Bang, Fang, Beat and whatever else I'm forgetting won't do anything. Basalt and Kreis will probably be the best for defense, everything else is bad. Phantom and Death will probably be the best for stamina and once again the other options will be bad. Honestly it seems like this format would have even less viable combinations than standard.

I like the creativity, it's always nice seeing something interesting and new pop up but I for one am definitely against this and don't think it's a good idea.
So in other words. This is just limited format with a shorter ban list.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:08 PM)BAWB18 Wrote: So in other words. This is just limited format with a shorter ban list.
This let's the older wheels, where it wasn't synchormes all the time, have there shine again. With creativity as new parts like E230 and SA165 can be put into 4D wheels, and how new parts won't be as OP as before, and allow for more changes and factors in the game, before its became the iron walls of synchormes.

This is a more creative Limited, if anything. Smile

*Note: My opinion.
(Sep. 15, 2015  7:55 PM)Leone19 Wrote: Didn't something similar draw buzz a while back? It's a cool idea, but I don't think it's worth making a format for it. Limited already exists and if a host wants this, they can just request a "house ban", like I have in the past.

I suppose this might be an easier solution. However, do the tournaments with "house rules" count toward your tournament score here on the WBO?


(Sep. 15, 2015  8:42 PM)Thunder Dome Wrote: Hate to break it to you but there will always be pieces that are unplayable. This format just sheds some light on a few (and some like Phantom and Death are still even viable in Standard), but really it still leaves a ton of wheels in the dust. If this became an actual format don't you think some people would try to make another format similar and be like "Let's ban the wheels that dominate this format and standard. VariAres and Blitz will be the best for attack, Big Bang, Fang, Beat and whatever else I'm forgetting won't do anything. Basalt and Kreis will probably be the best for defense, everything else is bad. Phantom and Death will probably be the best for stamina and once again the other options will be bad. Honestly it seems like this format would have even less viable combinations than standard.

I like the creativity, it's always nice seeing something interesting and new pop up but I for one am definitely against this and don't think it's a good idea.

I thought about this earlier when I was making the post, and after making the post, in regards to banning powerful parts. And it's true, you can pretty much ban everything until you finally get what you want to use since there are so many good parts, and so many more not-so-good parts. But maybe it isn't what the aim is for. Maybe it's just for a different way to think. I don't want to pretend that there are parts that wont be used, that is true anywhere and in any game that yields through parts/stats for performance.

I get it however... I suppose it's a bit hard to propose a format that is dissimilar from Standard and Limited and being it's own unique format. Banning too heavily pushes towards Limited, and opening too much gives way to Standard... But I think that there are quite a few things that the format would bring that doesn't exist in Standard or Limited and could possibly be considered interesting or enticing.



For example, to list a few:

Dual Spin beyblades, Gravity/Variares. There are no allowed/competitive Beyblades in Limited or Standard that have the ability to spin both ways. The mind games involving these are non-existent and could play an interesting role in this format.

Range of weight. Something also to note is how LLDTank, Meteo, and Basalt can all exist within one format and all of them can be considered good and win. Limited and Standard have pretty stable weight tiers that only play within their own weight classes (with very few exceptions).

And the range of exploration. Much like Limited, there are a lot of parts to explore, and 4D didn't really exist within the realms of Zero-G for very long. There really wasn't too much testing or strategy made between 4D and Zero-G parts, and this format could possibly open way to those.





I guess I'm not sure though. I am refining the idea and proposal further so that it sits better as it's own format.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:19 PM)juncction Wrote:
(Sep. 15, 2015  7:55 PM)Leone19 Wrote: Didn't something similar draw buzz a while back? It's a cool idea, but I don't think it's worth making a format for it. Limited already exists and if a host wants this, they can just request a "house ban", like I have in the past.

I suppose this might be an easier solution. However, do the tournaments with "house rules" count toward your tournament score here on the WBO?

All "house bans" are is that you request for the players to use certain parts or not to use certain parts. In the past for me, most of them have complied. If they choose not to listen to the house rules, it's their choice in the end; meaning that they can use Synchromes, in this case. However, it is requested that they do not.
Has anyone ever considered just straight-up banning Synchrome from Standard? Or just introducing a weight limit?
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:24 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Has anyone ever considered just straight-up banning Synchrome from Standard? Or just introducing a weight limit?

I personally wouldn't be a big fan of that.

The idea is interesting, but coming from a host, weighing every top before a battle would be add a good amount of time to each event and make it slightly more difficult for younger players or less competitive players. I remember the struggle of making a Pinewood Derby car the weight limit back in Cub Scouts, haha.

As far as banning them goes, I feel like that takes so many parts and renders them useless. I doubt a Crystal Wheel custom would stand a chance against most 4D customs. Banning a big part of modern customization would just set back the meta (with the exception of Zero-G bottoms?), which I guess is something people might like, but I don't, haha.

No matter what we ban or do, parts will always remain outclassed. Unless we go the Limited V2 route, haha.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:24 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Has anyone ever considered just straight-up banning Synchrome from Standard? Or just introducing a weight limit?

It wouldn't be Standard anymore if you do that, because the Standard Format is the one that allows all beyblades from that generation or am I wrong?

EDIT: Also, certain Synchrom combos could be unplayable with a weight limit if the limit is not wisely made Uncertain (All wheels should be well tested to be useful with the weight limit, because if the wheel synchronized overpass it, it will be practically banned)
I don't think the organizers would bring a scale to weight beyblades before each match to be sure it is still legal for the format.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:37 PM)Izhkoort Wrote:
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:24 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Has anyone ever considered just straight-up banning Synchrome from Standard? Or just introducing a weight limit?

It wouldn't be Standard anymore if you do that, because the Standard Format is the one that allows all beyblades from that generation or am I wrong?

I think you could make a strong argument that Zero-G is a new generation that just benefits from a huge backwards compatibility library. There is no power ramp like that in plastics or HMS. We should be willing to consider situations based on their unique contexts.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:39 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:37 PM)Izhkoort Wrote:
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:24 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Has anyone ever considered just straight-up banning Synchrome from Standard? Or just introducing a weight limit?

It wouldn't be Standard anymore if you do that, because the Standard Format is the one that allows all beyblades from that generation or am I wrong?

I think you could make a strong argument that Zero-G is a new generation that just benefits from a huge backwards compatibility library. There is no power ramp like that in plastics or HMS. We should be willing to consider situations based on their unique contexts.

That's true, but technically it's still MFB. Though not in the wheels, cross-compatibility still exists, through the bottoms. HMS and Plastics had no cross-compatibility, whatsoever. The Zero-G and older MFB parts were designed to be used together, from that standpoint. I personally don't see the benefits of banning Synchrome. Is it just to allow 4D parts some use or that Synchromes are the only things used, most of the time? Either way, it'd quickly become the same situation, with only certain combinations used.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:38 PM)loyd87 Wrote: I don't think the organizers would bring a scale to weight beyblades before each match to be sure it is still legal for the format.

It would be easy to tell which combinations are overweight since only specific parts or combinations of them would be over the limit.

(Sep. 15, 2015  9:41 PM)Leone19 Wrote: That's true, but technically it's still MFB. Though not in the wheels, cross-compatibility still exists, through the bottoms. HMS and Plastics had no cross-compatibility, whatsoever. The Zero-G and older MFB parts were designed to be used together, from that standpoint.

I'm of course aware of all of that. But I also find that it's "technically" MFB a weak defense, which is why I'm saying we should consider this specific context.

I am more interested if people think it would be a better game if we banned Synchrome. Obviously, if the active player community thinks it's a terrible idea, we would never do it.

But I also think we should consider brave decisions if it means we can actually make our organized play events better.
Note that RDF would still run rampant with a Synchrome-less format. If there were to be a new format that should be the first thing on banned, in my opinion.

I like the idea and I'm sure @[Priscient] will too haha. But it seems a little more complicated than necessary. Limited is already tough for new bladers to understand, so a "Limited V2" format would be tough as well.
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:43 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Sep. 15, 2015  9:38 PM)loyd87 Wrote: I don't think the organizers would bring a scale to weight beyblades before each match to be sure it is still legal for the format.

It would be easy to tell which combinations are overweight since only specific parts or combinations of them would be over the limit.

(Sep. 15, 2015  9:41 PM)Leone19 Wrote: That's true, but technically it's still MFB. Though not in the wheels, cross-compatibility still exists, through the bottoms. HMS and Plastics had no cross-compatibility, whatsoever. The Zero-G and older MFB parts were designed to be used together, from that standpoint.

I'm of course aware of all of that. But I also find that it's "technically" MFB a weak defense, which is why I'm saying we should consider this specific context.

I am more interested if people think it would be a better game if we banned Synchrome. Obviously, if the active player community thinks it's a terrible idea, we would never do it.

But I also think we should consider brave decisions if it means we can actually make our organized play events better.
I wasn't trying to say you weren't aware, haha, just mentioning my view, I guess.

That's true; either way it's very arguable, haha.

I personally reflected my feelings in an edited version of the quoted post, but I do not believe that banning them in Standard would be that beneficial. I feel like house rules is one thing, but banning the use outside of Zero-G format takes alot of customization out of Standard. It's limiting the parts library (as Limited already does) but I don't see how it would be beneficial, honestly. After the first few events, we'd probably see older customs take the top places again, which certainly allows more use of the outclassed parts, but sacrifices a lot more, I think. It eliminates the variety that Standard encompasses: a mix of all parts of MFB.