World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

230

Dec. 29, 2010  9:46 PM
 
lately everyone has been falling into the niche of low height attack customizations
with the release of 230, this is no longer a viable strategy
people need to get testing with heights 120 and up, and with something besides the Pegasis wheel :V

230 has really changed the metagame, for all three core types. it's a real threat, and should be taken into account whenever testing is done.
Dec. 30, 2010  12:27 AM
 
I couldn't agree more, 230 is a game breaking piece plain and simple.

MF Vulcan Horuseus 85RF/R2F, MF Lightning L Drago 90/100 RF/R2F, MF Gravity Perseus (Right Spin, Counter Mode) 85/90/100 RF/R2F, MF Pegasus 85 RF/R2F and MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Version) 90 RF/R2F all achieve a 0 -10% win rate over MF - H Earth Bull 230RS.

230 has completely incapacitated the competitive use low track Attacking options, due to the height of the 230 track low track Attack combinations cannot make any reasonable contact with a 230 defence combo and as such are not an option within the Attack Meta Game now with introduction of 230.

Before the release of the 230 track low track stamina combinations were dominating the Stamina Meta Game with Earth/Burn Bull 85WD/SD becoming the architect behind the movement towards LSTC achieving a 90 -100% win rate over all other Stamina track height combinations. Since the release of the 230 track using LSTC's are no longer a viable option with any track lower then 120 losing 100% of the time, for a track to achieve such a win rate over a large portion of Meta Game is unbelievable!

I’ve been doing a little testing in regards to Attack options against a 230 opponent, I’ve found that Vulcan works well against a 230 opponent on a 125 track height, Meteo L Drago (Absorb Version) for some reason works better on 145 while the most consistent of all Attack options against a 230 opponent at the moment is MF Lightning L Drago CH120RF/R2F. Due to the track height switching ability it allows the user to manipulate LL Drago to become a reasonable counter for either 230 Defence/Stamina combo or traditional 145 based opponents.

Though the scariest thing I’ve found about 230 is the fact that it has given rise to the possibility of a true MFB Balance combo, MF - L Earth Bull 230CS which incorporates Defense and Stamina properties. We can all thank Kei for this awesome combo of annoyance, lol.

*EDIT*
I just did some quick battles against 230RS/CS and have come to conclusion that the best Attack options are MF Lightning L Drago CH145RF, MF Gravity Perseus (Left Spin, Counter Mode) CH145RF and MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Version) CH145RF. I've chosen CH120-145 as the preferred track simply because it gives the combination added versatility against a wide range of opponents not just a 230 opponent. While battling in a competitive sense if your opponent switches to a standard 145 track Stamina or Defence combo by using CH145 you can readjust the height of the track in order to counter the opponent while achieving fantastic win rates against a variety of opponents.

I've also noticed the best way of defeating a 230 opponent is by using 230's main advantage against it. By using a Beyblade with a left spin orientation it creates a natural destabilizing effect which in most cases is enough to KO's a 230 opponent or causes the 230 opponent to become severely top heavy and circle the stadium. In some instances when the 230 opponent is top heavy it allows for a much easier KO as the 230 combo will be circling very close to the tornado ridge and stadium exists. If a KO doesn't occur then there is a slight chance of victory occurring by out spinning the 230 opponent though there is a much larger chance of the match ending in a tie if a KO doesn't occur.
Dec. 30, 2010  3:23 AM
 
230 is really scaring me.

The fact that attack types can't stay in their normal state of range bothers me. The whole game has changed just from this one simple track. I can somehow see how this track could eventually be banned, just because the whole game revolves around this piece. It's either you have it or you beat it. This really worries me.

Then again, this could be what the metagame really needs. Attack combos have just been coming left and right, so now 230 can reveal the very best of the best from them.

Gah, why CH145? I hate it so much, just because it's so unstable (for me at least).
Dec. 30, 2010  3:51 AM
 
My CH145 isn't too bad, it doesn't rattle or anything so it's fairly fine. The main reason for using CH145 was to create an Attack type that's able to defeat 230 as well as other traditional 145 track Defence and Stamina opponents; I record better results against 145 opponents if I switch the CH track to 120 mode as opposed to 145 mode.


At the moment I'm impartial to the notion of banning the 230 track. 230 does create the whole Libra argument all over where competitors are beginning to have to create combo's which are designed to defeat 230 opponents while still able to defeat traditional track heights all at once.


However 230 based opponents aren't completely invincible. 230 is actually quite susceptible to Left Spin Attack Combos such as Lightning, Meteo and Gravity which causes 230 to become destabilized and considerably top heavy allowing for easy KO's whilst those Attack options just mentioned still continue to recored fantastic win rates against 145 based opponents whist utilizing the CH track. Though unlike the Libra discussion where using an Attack Type Beyblade against Libra wasn’t an option since the win rates Attack Types achieved were so abysmally low which created the whole ’Rock, Paper, Scissors’ Argument, in regards to a 230 Defence combo a Left Spin Attack Combo can actually defeat a 230 track opponent quite easily.


Perhaps we should wait until the next few WBO tournaments have occurred before we decide on the notion whether to ban 230 or not? That way it allows us to know whether or not banning 230 is right decision as it allows us to examine the results and appropriately gauge whether 230 is dominating the Tournment scene.
Dec. 30, 2010  4:35 AM
 
I seriously think MF Lightning L Drago CH120RF/R2F/LRF is currently the best/safest option for tournament usage at the moment, both from a bit of personal experience with the 230 track and against other combos.
Jan. 10, 2011  5:09 PM
 
hahaha

sorry to jump in guys, but i love how we all thought this was a ridiculous joke and it ending up being a game-destroyer
Jan. 11, 2011  1:42 AM
 
I'm proud to say I never dumped on it :V
Jan. 11, 2011  1:27 PM
 
This is going to seem as if I'm jumping on the bandwagon but I never thought that'll be a terrible piece. I always thought that it'll find a niche in wobbler combinations, though I can openly say that I didn't foresee the impact 230 would have on the Stamina and Defence Meta Game.
Jan. 17, 2011  8:02 AM
 
I don't think we should ban this part so soon. Also, it seems that everyone is testing attack type combos against 230RS and 230CS. Instead, I think that we should test stamina combos against these two. I don't have 230 yet, but if I did I'd test a 145WD combo against 230RS and 230CS. If my theory that they would fair infinitely better is correct, then 230 might have actually brought balance to the game instead of breaking it.
Jan. 17, 2011  8:10 AM
 
(Jan. 17, 2011  8:02 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: I don't think we should ban this part so soon. Also, it seems that everyone is testing attack type combos against 230RS and 230CS. Instead, I think that we should test stamina combos against these two. I don't have 230 yet, but if I did I'd test a 145WD combo against 230RS and 230CS. If my theory that they would fair infinitely better is correct, then 230 might have actually brought balance to the game instead of breaking it.

Honestly, IIRC, this is also what happened when Libra was released; Attack couldn't dominate it, so stamina was heavily used in tourneys to defeat it, which made the battles get, well, boring.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't test stamina types against those combos, I'm saying that we should test both attack and stamina besides just one. Attack is getting somewhere VS 230, but it's not so little that we should give up on it yet.
Jan. 17, 2011  8:16 AM
 
Of course I don't mean that we should give up on attack types. What I'm saying is, if 145 stamina combos could successfully handle 230 defense combos, the metagame wouldn't be dominated by one type anymore.
Jan. 17, 2011  10:37 AM
 
IIRC, the stamina metagame right now is:

85>145>230>85

I don't see why it would change for defense, but it's still a possibility.
Jan. 17, 2011  11:22 AM
 
There isn't really a surefire way to beat 230 with an attack type, especially 230CS. I think if 145WD stamina customs could beat 230CS, and many attack types can beat 145WD combos, then that's where the balance would occur. Unless, 230WD dominates attack types. This is all purely speculative because I can't run tests on this yet. Someone should though if they have the parts.
Jan. 17, 2011  11:45 AM
 
(Jan. 17, 2011  10:37 AM)OkiBlaze Wrote: IIRC, the stamina metagame right now is:

85>145>230>85

I don't see why it would change for defense, but it's still a possibility.

It's more 145 and 230 are equal. 145 can defeat 230 though 230 can defeat 145, it seems 50/50

(Jan. 17, 2011  11:22 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: There isn't really a surefire way to beat 230 with an attack type, especially 230CS. I think if 145WD stamina customs could beat 230CS, and many attack types can beat 145WD combos, then that's where the balance would occur. Unless, 230WD dominates attack types. This is all purely speculative because I can't run tests on this yet. Someone should though if they have the parts.

I've mentioned this quite a few times in this thread but Attack Types can defeat 230 based Defence and Stamina Combos. MF Lightning L Drago CH145RF, MF Meteo L Drago CH145RF and MF Gravity Perseus (Left Spin, Counter Mode) CH145RF can defeat all 230 Stamina and Defence combos quite easily while being able to be used against traditional 145 Stamina and Defence opponents.
Jan. 17, 2011  7:09 PM
 
(Jan. 17, 2011  11:45 AM)Fyuuor Wrote: It's more 145 and 230 are equal. 145 can defeat 230 though 230 can defeat 145, it seems 50/50

Maybe it depends on the wheel used?
With Flame it seemed more like 95 - 5

This weekend I think I'm seeing my cousin, so I can probably try it with Flame, Rock, Burn, Earth, and some other wonky metal wheels.
Jan. 23, 2011  1:28 AM
 
A small test Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgeWdk4EiKM
Jan. 23, 2011  3:18 AM
 
(Jan. 23, 2011  1:28 AM)Arenanet Wrote: A small test Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgeWdk4EiKM

This is interesting, but maybe using a left-spin Wheel against the 230 customs such as Lightning L Drago would be more revealing?

However, the wear on some of those RFs is quite significant. I'm not sure if that would be legal or not because in the WBO Official Rules it does state:

Illegal Modification Wrote:The wearing down of parts, even through natural wear, that significantly alters the shape or performance of the part.

They are still flat, of course, but they are much thinner than a brand new RF.
Jan. 23, 2011  10:55 AM
 
Thought that I should mention this but I just competed at 'Bey Fury!' and my 230 combo ended up dominating the entire Tournament without losing a single match. Another participant did have a 230 though his CS was a bit touchy and it seemed to go into Attack Mode quite often.

Just makes me wonder what's in store for 230. I know it's only one Tournament that I've competed in but it seems as though for the last few WBO Tournaments 230 is beginning to make a bit of an impact with it featuring as one of the main combos used by the eventual winners of the Tournament.

Kei: MF - L Earth Bull 230CS
Momiji ____ 230RSF
Fyuuor: MF - L Flame/Earth 230CS
Jan. 23, 2011  12:10 PM
 
(Jan. 23, 2011  3:18 AM)Kei Wrote:
(Jan. 23, 2011  1:28 AM)Arenanet Wrote: A small test Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgeWdk4EiKM

This is interesting, but maybe using a left-spin Wheel against the 230 customs such as Lightning L Drago would be more revealing?

However, the wear on some of those RFs is quite significant. I'm not sure if that would be legal or not because in the WBO Official Rules it does state:

Illegal Modification Wrote:The wearing down of parts, even through natural wear, that significantly alters the shape or performance of the part.

They are still flat, of course, but they are much thinner than a brand new RF.

I think it's the natural evolution of RF!Stupid
the taka tomy knows perfectly well that the RF is consumed, and then he also knows that performance may change!

RF is unthinkable having to change before the competitionWink

Cute Forgive my bad English
Jan. 24, 2011  5:58 AM
 
Today I watched several combos take down 230 combos. I didn't get a good look at the parts on them. I think I saw one with Gravity Perseus. One combo that I did see win against a 230CS combo was Earth Bull 85WD, which is surprising considering the results you guys have had. I can't wait until my Byxis comes in so I can run tests. Also, Metal Flat <3.
Jan. 24, 2011  6:34 AM
 
(Jan. 24, 2011  5:58 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Today I watched several combos take down 230 combos. I didn't get a good look at the parts on them. I think I saw one with Gravity Perseus. One combo that I did see win against a 230CS combo was Earth Bull 85WD, which is surprising considering the results you guys have had. I can't wait until my Byxis comes in so I can run tests. Also, Metal Flat <3.

If the Gravity Perseus combo was in left-spin, I don't think it would be too odd for it to defeat the 230 custom. Something is definitely wrong if Earth Bull 85WD is defeating 230CS, though. 145WD, maybe, but there is no way 85WD should win.