Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - The Supreme One - Aug. 13, 2018
Since its release, Archer Hercules has dominated the competitive scene – particularly on Eternal. While it has become a staple in the meta, due to its strong teeth and resistance to bursts and KOs on Eternal, a possible ban on the layer in WBO organized play is currently being discussed. As we evaluate the risks that this part poses to the meta, it’s vital that we get your tests and feedback to help make the decision easier.
Below is some of the aH testing that’s already been done, as well as a list of winning combos from tournaments since aH’s release.
Archer Hercules Tests
Lovesick’s Tests
Beylauncher LR B-09
NOTE: FOR SOME REASON, MY 0S PERFORM BETTER THAN MY 7S, HENCE WHY IM USING THE 0 DISK SO MUCH.
Stamina testing:
On Revolve:
Archer Hercules 0 Revolve vs Crash Ragnaruk 0 Revolve
10 rounds. Archer Hercules ALWAYS launched first. 0R swapped after 5 rounds.
AH: 7 wins (6OS, 1 BURST)
CR: 3 wins (3 OS)
2 ties
Notes: AH no clicks for all rounds. CR wins were 3 or fewer rotations. AH wins were a bit more than that.
Archer Hercules 0 Revolve vs Deep Chaos 0 Revolve (A mold GC)
10 rounds. Archer Hercules ALWAYS launched first. 0R swapped after 5 rounds.
AH: 10 wins (OS)
DC: nil
0 ties
Notes: DC was notably destabilized. AH spun longer after winning DC than CR. No clicks for AH.
AH 0R vs WV 7B At
AH launched first. 1 star 0, 1 star 7.
AH: 7 wins ( 2 bursts, 1 Ko, 4 OS)
WV: 3 wins (3 OS)
Remarks: WV was better at destabilizing AH as it has more smash, and could land some good hits which would be enough to put AH on its revolve ring. AH never lost more than 2 clicks. I personally would believe that if it were put on an atomic it might yield better results.
On Atomic:
AH 0B.At. vs CR 7R
Alternately launched first, one star 0, one star 7.
AH: 9 wins (9OS)
CR: 1 win (OS)
Remarks: I would personally NOT bank AH. AH doesn't regain its balance well after it is destabilized, and while it does have better stamina than CR all of it is wasted when it scrapes on the ring of At. By stalling, AH has more of a chance to not get destabilized on At.
On Eternal:
AH 0B.ET vs MG 7SO
AH launched first at all times.
AH: 10 wins (OS)
MG: 0 wins
Remarks: The 0 revolve variant of AH was unable to outspin MG with this kind of consistency. Putting on something lower like revolve prevented destabilization, and allowed continuous layer contact with MG. This depleted the stamina of MG pretty quickly, and AH was able to use bump to force smash it onto the stadium to cause MG to scrape in the final moments of the battle.
AH 0B.ET vs HS 0B.DS
Ah launched first on odd matches. 0B swapped after 5 rounds.
AH: 0 wins
HS: 10 wins (OS)
Remarks: Eternal just doesn't have enough precession as DS.
AH 0B.ET vs HS 0B.At
Ah launched first on odd matches. 0B swapped after 5 rounds.
AH: 0 wins
HS: 10 wins (OS)
Remarks: Slightly closer, but still not enough.
AH 0B.ET vs WV 0B.Jl
Ah launched first. 0B swapped after 5 rounds.
AH: 8 wins (2 bursts, 2 KO, 4 OS)
WV: 2 wins (KO)
Remarks: Don't think about bursting AH. KOs are the best way to land wins with WV.
AH 0B.At. vs CR 7R
Alternately launched first, one star 0, one star 7.
AH: 9 wins (9OS)
CR: 1 win (OS)
Remarks: I would personally NOT bank AH. AH doesn't regain its balance well after it is destabilized, and while it does have better stamina than CR all of it is wasted when it scrapes on the ring of At. By stalling, AH has more of a chance to not get destabilized on At.
AH 0R vs WV 7B At
AH launched first. 1 star 0, 1 star 7.
AH: 7 wins ( 2 bursts, 1 Ko, 4 OS)
WV: 3 wins (3 OS)
Remarks: WV was better at destabilizing AH as it has more smash, and could land some good hits which would be enough to put AH on its revolve ring. AH never lost more than 2 clicks. I personally would believe that if it were put on an atomic it might yield better results.
AH 0B.ET vs MG 7SO
AH launched first at all times.
AH: 10 wins (OS)
MG: 0 wins
Remarks: The 0 revolve variant of AH was unable to outspin MG with this kind of consistency. Putting on something lower like revolve prevented destabilization, and allowed continuous layer contact with MG. This depleted the stamina of MG pretty quickly, and AH was able to use bump to force smash it onto the stadium to cause MG to scrape in the final moments of the battle.
Whilst I might not have liked Eternal as much when I initially tried it due to its AH's slight imbalance on it compared to when AH was on one of my revolves (dunno why) I've found out that the slight imbalance helps it to regain its balance when destabilized. This helps resolve the destabilization problem that the revolve variant had. The shorter height also allows it to retain its balance more. Furthermore, whilst being shorter, the steepness of the ring is significantly shallower, enough that putting a frame like bump on it wouldn't obstruct its precession.
~Mana~’s Test
LC Z Achilles 7 Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
zA: 9 (8 BF, 1 KO)
aH: 11 (11 OS)
Win rate: 45%
Average aH clicks: 3.15
It's definitely burstable. Less KOable, but Burstable for sure. zA definitely feels a lot more consistent with a Level Chip as well, though I'll save that discussion for another time.
I started a wV test as well, but I've suspended it for now. Started using a new wV Layer for this (shiny white/gold one from the RBV!), but it was getting shredded from the impacts, so I've stopped. I'll pick that up again another time, but the test above proves the point that it's possible, haha. Kei’s Tests
Testing Conditions:
- BeyLauncher for both Beyblades
- LC zA.7.X: always launched first
- LC zA.7.X: First set of results and second set of results use a different zA, 7, and X. First Xtreme is a bit more worn but still good condition and the Xtreme from the second set is relatively new.
- LC zA.7.X vs. aH.0.Et: In the first set of results I launched aH a little bit harder than I did in the second set.
- hS.0.Et vs. aH.0.Et: Alternating launches, Disk/Driver swapped half way through
- Sr.0L.At vs. aH.0.Et: Alternating launches, Sr banked to avoid self-KOing
LC Zet Achilles 7 Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
LC zA.7.X: 0 wins
aH.0.Et: 15 wins (15 OS)
zA Win rate: 0%
Average aH clicks: 1.15
LC Zet Achilles 7 Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
LC zA.7.X: 3 wins (3 KO)
aH.0.Et: 12 wins (4 KO, 8 OS)
zA Win rate: 20%
Average aH clicks: 0.53
The difference between the two Xtreme Drivers was pretty interesting. The newer one definitely had better KO power, but I felt like the first one held the flower pattern better and got more hits (hence the higher loss of clicks on average for aH in the first set of results). Nevertheless, aH never got close to bursting unlike in ~Mana~'s tests and ultimately dominated.
Hell Salamander 0 Eternal vs Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
hS.0.Et: 9 wins (9 OS)
aH.0.Et: 11 wins (11 OS)
6 Draws
hS Win rate: 45%
This match up seems to be like I predicted ("might have a lot to do with combo/part balance"). It can go either way, so I wouldn't rely on hS.0.Et to beat aH.0.Et.
Spriggan Requiem 0 Lift Atomic (Right-Spin) vs Archer Hercules 0 Eternal
Sr.0L.At: 4 wins (4 OS)
aH.0.Et: 6 wins (4 OS, 1 BF, 1 KO)
Sr Win rate: 40%
Random match-up I recorded just to see how Sr was doing ... Like the rP At vs. aH Et match-up, this one also feels pretty launch dependent.
Wombat’s Tests
Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
wV.8V.X: 11 wins (9 KO, 2 burst)
aH.7.Et: 9 wins (7 OS, 1 KO, 1 burst)
1 tie (double KO)
wV.8V.X win rate: 55%
Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Hell Salamander 0Glaive Atomic
wV.8V.X: 6 wins (all KO)
aH.7.Et: 14 wins (13 OS, 1 burst)
wV.8V.X win rate: 30%
Winning Combos (Month of July)
Put Your Camera Down - 7/6/2018
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Format
1st: 1234beyblade
Twin Nemesis 0 Bump Bearing
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing
Deep Chaos 5 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
Winning Valkyrie 7 Meteor βite (Deck Format Finals Only)
Winning Valkyrie 7 Meteor Jolt (Deck Format Finals Only)
2nd: Kei
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing
Winning Valkyrie 5 Star Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
3rd: Cam77
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Bearing
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
HIGH PARK THROWDOWN 10 [BST] - 7/14/2018
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Format
1st: 1234beyblade
Winning Valkyrie 7 Meteor βite
Winning Valkyrie 0 Bump Bearing
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing
Winning Valkyrie 5 Meteor Jolt (Deck Format Finals Only)
Emperor Forneus (Level Chip) 7 Star Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 5 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
2nd: OldSchool™
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Orbit
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Eternal
3rd: Kei
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Common Pickles Birthday Bey Party – 7/15
First- Beymax
Archer Hercules Thirteen Eternal
Revive Phoenix Ten Friction
Second- @[Ardmore Bladers]
Archer Hercules Four Bump Destroy
Alter Chronos Zero Reach Bearing
Hell Samamander Five Glave Bearing
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) Seven Bump Atomic
Third- Ignitor1121
Revive Phoenix Ten Friction
Archer Thirteen Eternal
Winning Valkyrie Twelve Vortex Bearing
RVA Summer Series #2 – July 22nd
1st Place - Wombat
aH.7.Et
hS.0B.H
bL.5G.W (deck only)
wV.8V.X (deck only)
2nd Place - shu582
sX.4F.X
zA.0B.Ds
gZ.2.Nt
(Props to this kid for KOing me multiple times and being the only person I lost to in the tournament lol)
3rd Place - The Supreme One
eF.7.Br
hS.7G.Br
hS.7C.At / hS.0C.At (Deck Format Only)
aH.7.Et / aH.5.Et (Deck Format Only)
Achilles' Heel - 07/28/2018
Austin, Texas, USA - Burst Format
1st - XO Shock
Archer Hercules 13 Eternal
Hell Salamander 0Bump Atomic
2nd - TrainiacJ
(Level Chip) Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
(Level Chip) Archer Hercules 7 Atomic
3rd - Twin Destroyer
Archer Hercules 0Hit Eternal
Revival of the Phoenix - 7/29/2018
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Format
1st: Kei
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal
Revive Phoenix (Level Chip) 7 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 0 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Revive Phoenix 7 Cross Destroy (Deck Format Finals Only)
2nd: Justin TC
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
Revive Phoenix 7 Star Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
3rd: OldSchool™
Hell Salamander 0 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
Battle of the Legends – July 22nd
1st - Pratham
winning Valkyrie triple Xtreme
Hell salamander nine revolve
Victory Valkyrie boost variable
2nd - Adarsh Abhinav
Nightmare Longinus Destroy
Seig Xcalibur 0under Variable
Drain Fafnir 8 orbit
3rd - Aguynamedmobi
Zillion Zews Knuckle Orbit
Victory Valkyrie Magnum Iron
xeno Xcalibur nine Trans
REVIVE PHOENIX DOWN - Burst Format
Los Angeles, CA 7/28/2018
1st Place Shindog
LC Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Bearing
Revive Phoenix 10 Cross Octa
2nd Place JoJo [Jp0t]
Bloody Longinus 7 Under Orbit
Revive Phoenix 10 Bump Atomic
LC Hell Salamander 0 Flow Bearing
Winning Valkyrie 7 Vortex Revolve
3rd Place Alta
LC Hell Salamander 0 Flow Bearing
Revive Phoenix 10 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
Summary:
Percent of winning combos that featured aH: 24/87 (27.59%)
Percent of winning combos that featured hS: 26/87 (29.89%)
Percent of tournament placers that used aH: 18/24 (75%)
Percent of tournament placers that used hS since aH’s release: 17/24 (70/83%)
Interestingly, hS appears more frequently in the winning combos for July than aH with an almost equal number of placers using it as those who used aH. Do you think aH deserves a ban? Why or why not?
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Battleburst - Aug. 13, 2018
No bro,now sr and mg are unbanned ,I strongly feel no more bans just now
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Valkyriology - Aug. 13, 2018
(Aug. 13, 2018 11:28 AM)Battleburst Wrote: No bro,now sr and mg are unbanned ,I strongly feel no more bans just now
Maybe the unban on sR and mG was a bit late but just like them aH is dominating.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - AndyHG - Aug. 13, 2018
Honestly I think bans should stick to parts that aren’t commonly available like outer. No layer is unbeatable.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - RedPanda2 - Aug. 13, 2018
(Aug. 13, 2018 12:53 PM)AndyHG Wrote: Honestly I think bans should stick to parts that aren’t commonly available like outer. No layer is unbeatable.
that’s a principle-based approach right there!
well said, sir!
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - MonoDragon - Aug. 13, 2018
Hold off on a ban until Buster Xcalibur gets proper testing. If Buster Xcalibur fails, ban Archer Hercules.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Adarsh Abhinav - Aug. 13, 2018
There is another problem, if aH is banned, hS will dominate again, if bX does good against aH, the duo is saved, or else, the duo needs to be banned. But then rP will dominate
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - 1234beyblade - Aug. 13, 2018
So i was thinking what if we don't ban any layers and ban Eternal instead.
My theory on this is as follows.
aH is only good because it's LAD carried by Eternal and has no right spin stamina layers to deal with, no one uses other drivers on it such as Revolve, Bearing, or Atomic because they know it's garbage and it will lose to hS Atomic (well aside from bearing, but that's driver LAD match ups so it's a no brainier). If a player is forced to use Bearing on aH to get the same results that Eternal is giving then they risk getting destroyed by attack types which opens a window that has always been closed due to the absurd defense that Eternal gave it.
rP will have room to be a destabilizer against aH and a defense type for the attack types that are now beating aH.
hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol.
So in conclusion Eternal gives aH too much power because it has good stamina, amazing LAD, and amazing burst resistance. Since there isn't a good stamina layer in the form of cho-z aH just destabilizes things such as dC because of the crazy weight it has making aH get a free pass on having to deal with any right spin stamina beys and only having to worry about LAD match ups against hS. Lastly rP isn't a 100% free win against aH because aH is dependent on the balance of the parts to give it the most stamina possible (yeah that's right, perfect balance has made a return).
(just to add on to no one using any other driver on aH either than Eternal. Literally every aH combo but 3 has Eternal on it in the winning combos list provided.)
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Battleburst - Aug. 13, 2018
(Aug. 13, 2018 2:25 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: So i was thinking what if we don't ban any layers and ban Eternal instead.
My theory on this is as follows.
aH is only good because it's LAD carried by Eternal and has no right spin stamina layers to deal with, no one uses other drivers on it such as Revolve, Bearing, or Atomic because they know it's garbage and it will lose to hS Atomic (well aside from bearing, but that's driver LAD match ups so it's a no brainier). If a player is forced to use Bearing on aH to get the same results that Eternal is giving then they risk getting destroyed by attack types which opens a window that has always been closed due to the absurd defense that Eternal gave it.
rP will have room to be a destabilizer against aH and a defense type for the attack types that are now beating aH.
hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol.
So in conclusion Eternal gives aH too much power because it has good stamina, amazing LAD, and amazing burst resistance. Since there isn't a good stamina layer in the form of cho-z aH just destabilizes things such as dC because of the crazy weight it has making aH get a free pass on having to deal with any right spin stamina beys and only having to worry about LAD match ups against hS. Lastly rP isn't a 100% free win against aH because aH is dependent on the balance of the parts to give it the most stamina possible (yeah that's right, perfect balance has made a return).
(just to add on to no one using any other driver on aH either than Eternal. Literally every aH combo but 3 has Eternal on it in the winning combos list provided.)
I feel let’s not ban anything ,please ,et or ah,please
(Aug. 13, 2018 12:53 PM)AndyHG Wrote: Honestly I think bans should stick to parts that aren’t commonly available like outer. No layer is unbeatable.
(Aug. 13, 2018 12:53 PM)AndyHG Wrote: Honestly I think bans should stick to parts that aren’t commonly available like outer. No layer is unbeatable.
I agree,also we have a new fafnir coming
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Shindog - Aug. 13, 2018
(Aug. 13, 2018 2:25 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: So i was thinking what if we don't ban any layers and ban Eternal instead.
My theory on this is as follows.
aH is only good because it's LAD carried by Eternal and has no right spin stamina layers to deal with, no one uses other drivers on it such as Revolve, Bearing, or Atomic because they know it's garbage and it will lose to hS Atomic (well aside from bearing, but that's driver LAD match ups so it's a no brainier). If a player is forced to use Bearing on aH to get the same results that Eternal is giving then they risk getting destroyed by attack types which opens a window that has always been closed due to the absurd defense that Eternal gave it.
rP will have room to be a destabilizer against aH and a defense type for the attack types that are now beating aH.
hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol.
So in conclusion Eternal gives aH too much power because it has good stamina, amazing LAD, and amazing burst resistance. Since there isn't a good stamina layer in the form of cho-z aH just destabilizes things such as dC because of the crazy weight it has making aH get a free pass on having to deal with any right spin stamina beys and only having to worry about LAD match ups against hS. Lastly rP isn't a 100% free win against aH because aH is dependent on the balance of the parts to give it the most stamina possible (yeah that's right, perfect balance has made a return).
(just to add on to no one using any other driver on aH either than Eternal. Literally every aH combo but 3 has Eternal on it in the winning combos list provided.) I agree with all the points made. But I am concerned with the part “hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol”
I agree with everything said here. Is this not kind of a problem too though? So the counter for hS atomic becomes opposite spin stamina layers, itself, and attack (and only if you are good enough....this is absolutely true. I know because I am often not good enough)
Is this proposed banning going to make hS ~90% instead of the ~70% usage.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - 1234beyblade - Aug. 14, 2018
(Aug. 13, 2018 7:08 PM)Shindog Wrote: I agree with all the points made. But I am concerned with the part “hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol”
I agree with everything said here. Is this not kind of a problem too though? So the counter for hS atomic becomes opposite spin stamina layers, itself, and attack (and only if you are good enough....this is absolutely true. I know because I am often not good enough)
Is this proposed banning going to make hS ~90% instead of the ~70% usage.
So if we do ban hS then Sr would start to dominate. The problem with that is now attack doesn't stand a chance against Sr because the rubber just absorbs all the hits that would otherwise beat hS. bL also counters hS to an extent, really don't think it's as big of an issue as aH is because... at least it has multiple counters. Just my opinion though, completely understand that to some people it seems just as unbeatable as aH lol. Majority rules on WBO so if multiple people agree on certain bans it could very well happen.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Shindog - Aug. 14, 2018
(Aug. 14, 2018 10:08 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: (Aug. 13, 2018 7:08 PM)Shindog Wrote: I agree with all the points made. But I am concerned with the part “hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol”
I agree with everything said here. Is this not kind of a problem too though? So the counter for hS atomic becomes opposite spin stamina layers, itself, and attack (and only if you are good enough....this is absolutely true. I know because I am often not good enough)
Is this proposed banning going to make hS ~90% instead of the ~70% usage.
So if we do ban hS then Sr would start to dominate. The problem with that is now attack doesn't stand a chance against Sr because the rubber just absorbs all the hits that would otherwise beat hS. bL also counters hS to an extent, really don't think it's as big of an issue as aH is because... at least it has multiple counters. Just my opinion though, completely understand that to some people it seems just as unbeatable as aH lol. Majority rules on WBO so if multiple people agree on certain bans it could very well happen. I can see why aH(or Et) is being targeted for a ban. I am not for the ban but I can understand why it is being considered. I guess I just feel the most common counter for aH on Et, hS on Br, is a pretty decent combo and pretty fair too, as it loses to attack more than hS on At. Combos that counter hS on At other than aH seem more narrow in application to me. My take on it is that perhaps aH on Et is too good, but it kinda balances the format.
So far, what I have seen on bX doesn’t make me think it’s the savior that everyone had hope for. I hope I’m wrong.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - RedPanda2 - Aug. 14, 2018
(Aug. 14, 2018 10:08 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: (Aug. 13, 2018 7:08 PM)Shindog Wrote: I agree with all the points made. But I am concerned with the part “hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol”
I agree with everything said here. Is this not kind of a problem too though? So the counter for hS atomic becomes opposite spin stamina layers, itself, and attack (and only if you are good enough....this is absolutely true. I know because I am often not good enough)
Is this proposed banning going to make hS ~90% instead of the ~70% usage.
So if we do ban hS then Sr would start to dominate. The problem with that is now attack doesn't stand a chance against Sr because the rubber just absorbs all the hits that would otherwise beat hS. bL also counters hS to an extent, really don't think it's as big of an issue as aH is because... at least it has multiple counters. Just my opinion though, completely understand that to some people it seems just as unbeatable as aH lol. Majority rules on WBO so if multiple people agree on certain bans it could very well happen.
i don’t know about majority rules.
if a thread like this even exists, i’d bet the decision to ban aH has already been made.
kinda like the public comment period on pending federal regulations... say your piece but it’s an illusion...
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Bey_$avage - Aug. 14, 2018
(Aug. 14, 2018 7:33 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote: (Aug. 14, 2018 10:08 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: So if we do ban hS then Sr would start to dominate. The problem with that is now attack doesn't stand a chance against Sr because the rubber just absorbs all the hits that would otherwise beat hS. bL also counters hS to an extent, really don't think it's as big of an issue as aH is because... at least it has multiple counters. Just my opinion though, completely understand that to some people it seems just as unbeatable as aH lol. Majority rules on WBO so if multiple people agree on certain bans it could very well happen.
i don’t know about majority rules.
if a thread like this even exists, i’d bet the decision to ban aH has already been made.
kinda like the public comment period on pending federal regulations... say your piece but it’s an illusion...
Yeah I have a feeling that aH is as good as gone. Though I feel it unnecessary with the new bX not even being tested & Sr & mG being unbanned. There is already counters for aH I don't think the ban is neccneces
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - ultra destinus - Aug. 14, 2018
I think Eternal is the reason for aH's Power. they should put up a trial ban after they finish testing.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Ultra - Aug. 14, 2018
Really don’t feel there’s an issue here. rP and hS are a lot more annoying.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Kei - Aug. 14, 2018
The main thing I ask myself when thinking about this is: should a combination with such high stamina and defense exist in the game? The answer historically throughout MFB (Libra, Basalt which was almost banned) and Burst (Deathscyther, Dark Deathscyther, Maximum Garuda, Spriggan Requiem, etc) has been "no, it shouldn't".
Stamina types should never have high defense and defense types shouldn't have high stamina; that's kind of the basics of how Beyblade needs to be in order for it to work properly. It's possible for one such combination to have elements of the other type, but it shouldn't basically be the best-in-class at both. For example, Guardian Kerbeus and Deep Chaos were well designed because they were the best Stamina types in the game during their time, but they were weak to Attack. Crash Ragnaruk is also similar, but it's been overshadowed by Archer Hercules.
I can see the debate for whether it's aH or Eternal that's the problem, so I think that's something worth considering further right now. At our event in Toronto this weekend we might try an unofficial aH ban (ex. asking everyone to not use it, but officially they could), so we'll see how that goes.
But I also understand there's some people who are pointing fingers at rP and hS instead ... those two haven't been as much of a problem in Toronto. There's just so much variance in opinion globally it seems. Generally speaking, I've said it before, but I also think that TAKARA-TOMY needs to release a new Attack-focused stadium really badly ... but that's not something we can control.
(Aug. 14, 2018 7:33 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote: if a thread like this even exists, i’d bet the decision to ban aH has already been made.
kinda like the public comment period on pending federal regulations... say your piece but it’s an illusion...
Not true! We posted this because the decision isn't made and we want opinions. There's a difference in opinion even among staff right now. But we all feel it's a complex issue which deserves discussion and feedback from as many people as possible.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - CitrusNinja3 - Aug. 14, 2018
I agree: Eternal is good because it can't be knocked off balance easily and Archer Hercules is good because it's hard to burst. The thing is, aH has medium recoil and a combo with Eternal scrapes if used with a frame. Since aH is succeeding so much with Eternal, why not make a combo ban for Archer Hercules with Eternal? This would keep the parts in play, but not as much as before.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - RedPanda2 - Aug. 14, 2018
(Aug. 14, 2018 8:47 PM)Kei Wrote: (Aug. 14, 2018 7:33 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote: if a thread like this even exists, i’d bet the decision to ban aH has already been made.
kinda like the public comment period on pending federal regulations... say your piece but it’s an illusion...
Not true! We posted this because the decision isn't made and we want opinions. There's a difference in opinion even among staff right now. But we all feel it's a complex issue which deserves discussion and feedback from as many people as possible.
OK. well i certainly take you at your word. thanks.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - RED NINJA 0829 - Aug. 16, 2018
I really wish aH will not be banned
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Adarsh Abhinav - Aug. 16, 2018
(Aug. 16, 2018 2:51 PM)RED NINJA 0829 Wrote: I really wish aH will not be banned
Why? If bX testings lprove that aH cannot be defeated as of now, there will be no reason to keep aH unbanned.
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - GOD CHIPS - Aug. 16, 2018
(Aug. 16, 2018 2:53 PM)Adarsh Abhinav Wrote: (Aug. 16, 2018 2:51 PM)RED NINJA 0829 Wrote: I really wish aH will not be banned
Why? If bX testings lprove that aH cannot be defeated as of now, there will be no reason to keep aH unbanned.
I don't think BX can defeat AH ( In stock combo ) , EVEN , EF bursted BX !!
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Hyper xeno - Aug. 16, 2018
(Aug. 13, 2018 2:25 PM)The 1234beyblade Wrote: So i was thinking what if we don't ban any layers and ban Eternal instead.
My theory on this is as follows.
aH is only good because it's LAD carried by Eternal and has no right spin stamina layers to deal with, no one uses other drivers on it such as Revolve, Bearing, or Atomic because they know it's garbage and it will lose to hS Atomic (well aside from bearing, but that's driver LAD match ups so it's a no brainier). If a player is forced to use Bearing on aH to get the same results that Eternal is giving then they risk getting destroyed by attack types which opens a window that has always been closed due to the absurd defense that Eternal gave it.
rP will have room to be a destabilizer against aH and a defense type for the attack types that are now beating aH.
hS would be dominant as its only counters are aH/rP Bearing and attack (if you're good enough with it) (this is assuming hS is on atomic). If hS is on bearing then the counters are attack and hS on revolve atomic or basically almost any driver lol.
So in conclusion Eternal gives aH too much power because it has good stamina, amazing LAD, and amazing burst resistance. Since there isn't a good stamina layer in the form of cho-z aH just destabilizes things such as dC because of the crazy weight it has making aH get a free pass on having to deal with any right spin stamina beys and only having to worry about LAD match ups against hS. Lastly rP isn't a 100% free win against aH because aH is dependent on the balance of the parts to give it the most stamina possible (yeah that's right, perfect balance has made a return).
(just to add on to no one using any other driver on aH either than Eternal. Literally every aH combo but 3 has Eternal on it in the winning combos list provided.)
I agree they should just ban eternal or maby Archer Hercules with eternal
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - Crimson Chin - Aug. 16, 2018
I feel as if we should wait until some new beys are released, and attack combos with bx are made to counter ah on et
RE: Archer Hercules Ban Discussion - RedPanda2 - Aug. 17, 2018
(Aug. 16, 2018 10:59 PM)Crimson Chin Wrote: I feel as if we should wait until some new beys are released, and attack combos with bx are made to counter ah on et
I agree, it’s too early in the cho-z power release cycle for a ban like this.
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