Inferno Sagittario is a hasbro version of Metal System Sagittario, not Flame Sagittario... Why do people struggle to understand this... :c
Second one is actually a spelling error, I've fixed it now.
But it is another "version" because it has the same Clear Wheel, which is what we have been following for all Metal Fight Beyblade articles. Yes, it is the Hybrid Wheel "version" of Sagittario 145S, but in the sense that we have been employing, Inferno Sagittario does not belong in the Sagittario article.
Arguable, but it is not something "petty" that belongs in this topic about errors anyway.
Then I would have to argue that the sense being employed isn't sense, as ignoring the facts of the situation - that Legend Series Beyblades are the Hasbro Versions of Metal System beys, to follow our own arbitrary rules about Same CW's=Versions of the same bey, is completely non-sensical: We're ignoring cold, hard fact for our own interpretations.
I'm sorry, but I can't think of a better place to discuss it off the top of my head (most wiki suggestions end up going here or in the general make your suggestions thread, we really need a wiki suggestions thread), and I'm pretty sure it is a sizeable error in how we do things, it may seem petty, but it does set a very poor example overall. I do feel pretty strongly about it, because BeyWiki shouldn't have situations like this where we're choosing our own interpretations over actual facts, we aim to report the facts, not blindly follow our own assumptions once they've proven incorrect or at least inappropriate for the situation.
Basically, we're saying that because of the way hasbro did things, a beyblade as startlingly different as Midnight Bull is from Dark Bull is a version of Dark Bull, rather than a version of Metal System Bull, which it is directly based on - It's basically Dark Bull's Uncle, not it's Brother.
Honestly, I don't think this "same clear wheel = version" thing makes much sense on its own, (I mean, why not use the Clear Wheel List and list the beys it's used in there, and save the versions section for recolours. Metal System beys that use the same wheel, because they really are the same, and things that are "alternate versions" based on their presentation/marketing by manufacturers), but this is just silly.
There's a small spelling error on the Thief Phoenic stub:
Quote:E230 is a mechanicl upgrade to the regular 230 Track. Its core is modified to accomodate, along its whole height, the ascent and descent of a free-moving disk, hence the term "elevator".
It should be "mechanical" instead.
(Apr. 19, 2012 3:25 AM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]Have there been other instances ?
For the R2F molds, while I don't personally own one, I did see a handful of Galaxy Pegasus starters a few days back that had the third mold as well.
Waking up at five twelve and creating an article during a class, in between writing down long notes, hah.
th!nk, I am going to wait for Kei's input, which should really be either next week or the week after ...
Dang, waiting 1-2 weeks for a small decision like that? Really don't want to sound rude here but that seems kind of ... inefficient
Obviously it is not a small decision ... The tradition since the Hybrid Wheel System has been that we base other versions on the Clear Wheels. Sagittario 145S and Inferno Sagittario are not even part of the same system, even though they are similar.
Inferno Sagittario is Hasbro's version of Sagittario 145S... Kei's great but this is just common sense...
As for the rest of my suggestion about just cutting/shifting the CW thing almost entirely, fair enough, but that's separate.
Inferno Sagittario is a Hybrid Wheel rendition of Sagittario.
Exactly, Inferno Sagittario is a Hybrid Wheel version/rendition of Metal System Sagittario, whereas Flame Sagittario is a descendant of Metal System Sagittario, like Flash Sagittario is a descendant of Flame Sagittario.
And Flash Sagittario is not listed as another version of Flame Sagittario, nor is Flame Sagittario listed as another version of Sagittario.
Exactly, and seeing as Inferno Sagittario is Hasbro's Legend Series version of Metal System Sagittario, not a descendant but a "translation", listing inferno sagittario on Flame Sagittario's article is like listing Flame Sagittario on Flash Sagittario's article.
Flame Sagittario is not an MFB Version of Metal System Sagittario, it is the descendant of it, whereas Inferno Sagittario is a MFB Version of it, just like Trygle 2 G or Appolon G are Engine Gear Versions of Trygle 2 and Apollon, not descendants of them.
And probably for this very reason th!nk doesn't want Inferno to be listed as another version of Flame Sagittario?
Considering the fact that Inferno Sagittario is a HWS bey, it might get slightly confusing if we list it as another version of MS Sagittario.
It would be more understandable to list it as another version of Flame Sagittario, but that wouldn't be technically correct...
Instead, why don't we provide an explanation for this point at the start of the Sagittario 145S, as we have usually done, to show differences between TT and Hasbro?
Something like- Sagitarrio 145S was not released by Hasbro, and was instead released as Inferno Sagittario later...
EDIT- Beaten!
It wouldn't be more understandable at all - Inferno Sagittario is not another version of Flame Sagittario, it's not intended to be another version of it... What is confusing about listing an HWS bey as a version of a metal system beyblade when it actually is? Just because Appolon G is an Engine Gear bey, it's not hard to see that it's just another version of Apollon.
Just under other version of Sagittario 145S
Inferno Sagittario 145S - Hasbro [Legend Series] Counterpart.
or whatever for the second word. You could add the standard "hasbro released inferno saggitario in its place" notice at the top of the page too, but having both would be a little redundant.
and for Inferno Sagittario's other version section
Sagittario 145S - The Metal System Basis for this Beyblade
or whatever, I'm not sure how you'd want to word it.
Is there an article on a plastic Beyblade that actually has an example like that ? You keep quoting Trygle and Apollon, but the Trygle article has no mention of Trygle 2, and there is no article on Apollon, apparently, hah.
Trygle 2 and Trygle are different beyblades. No, none of them have articles yet but I'm pretty sure there are drafts of a few of them, though I helped write those.
Common sense, however, should not require a precedent, and my explanation was based on common sense.
Common sense is to also look at what was done in the past. "Version" usually refers only to recolours, it seems, and the only thing that changes colours in the Hybrid Wheel System is the Clear Wheel, if you ignore the Tracks and Bottoms.
(Apr. 19, 2012 6:18 PM)Kai-V Wrote: [ -> ]Common sense is to also look at what was done in the past.
No it really, really isn't. That's tradition, not common sense. The two clash fairly often.
Kai-V Wrote:"Version" usually refers only to recolours, it seems, and the only thing that changes colours in the Hybrid Wheel System is the Clear Wheel, if you ignore the Tracks and Bottoms.
But why ignore the tracks and bottoms? That's a very arbitrary distinction!
Anyway, there are recolours and things that are clearly alternate versions, like Stardust Pegasis, Hasbro Twin-Set/Stadium Set Recolours, Phantom Orion Skeleton Ver., Variares Mars Red Ver., and so on. However, two beyblades that only share the single least important part being alternate versions? Eeeeh, but that's besides the point.
The entire point is the intention - was Inferno Sagittario supposed to be an alternate version of Sagittario 145S. The answer is undeniably yes - they created the inferno wheel and modelled it after Metal System Sagittario because they never released Metal System Sagittario, and they made a whole line like this to replace notable Metal System Releases or whichever ones they could.
Inferno Sagittario is NOT supposed to be an alternate version of Flame Sagittario any more than the original is.
Obviously, I'm bordering very closely on arguing that the whole CW-Based thing is ludicrous anyway, but it's hard to avoid here.
Are there not recolours we have listed, either in actual articles or in drafts, that were recoloured plastic Beyblades with different Bases or Weight Disks ?
There's the early releases like Polta/Spark Knight/Saizo and Ultimate Dragoon/Makendo/Megaro Arm and Bistool/Utlimate Frostic Dranzer and Gekiryu-Oh, that have different weight disks. We list them as alternate versions of the same beyblade because the differences between them are almost inconsequential. Unlike, say, Inferno Sagittario and Flame Sagittario, or Dark Wolf DF145FS and Flame Wolf H145S, where the difference is huge. In the case of Inferno Sagittario and Sagittario 145S, they have modified Sagittario into inferno to fit the Sagittario CW, but the overall design is identical - as is the intent.
As for bases, that would be the aforementioned beys which Hasbro added engine gears to, thus changing the base, and in a number of cases the weight disk. Those are considered alternate versions because they are intended to be. Yes, we link the AR's, but the AR's are the main focus and a significant defining part. The equivalent to classifying versions by CW's in plastics would probably be calling anything with the same weight disk an alternate version.
Dragoon GT and Trygle 2 G are not considered alternates of each other, despite only differing in the AR - they are not intended to be alternate versions of each other at all. Same with Dragoon G, White Gabriel G, and Venusian G. It's common sense.
I don't understand why you're fighting this Kai-V. What he's saying makes perfect sense while our current system makes little.
This all reminds me of the rise of tuition fees here in Québec, where the university fees have been fine all those years and now the government wants to change them ... It makes sense, but the current system has worked upon until now.
So we should keep using something that doesn't work because it worked for a while?
Believing the world was flat worked for a while too.
Cease the mentally degrading examples and the constant referrence to "common sense". You have a view, and you have to understand that there is another one out there that is not completely stupid and Bozo-like. Yours is not without flaws either, even though it makes "sense" in certain perspectives.
If you are going to take my comments as insults, I give up.