Not sure how many of you ended up seeing this: https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Removin...m-the-game

I have pretty mixed feelings on Deathscyther. While I believe it can be used for success and becomes versatile when used right, it is not overly consistent. On the other hand, however, it just really doesn't hurt to ban it either. As I had mentioned in the thread above, options like Chaos, Unicorn and possibly even Holy Horusood become viable. But yes, I would definitely be interested in seeing if Doomscizor holds a candle up to its Japanese counterpart.

What about people who like things the way they are who don't want to use garbage like unicorn as an alternative to good stamina parts?

I personally think that we should temporarily ban both Deathscythers until a decent attack Layer is released. Valkyrie wears down after a few battles, and Xcalibur is too risky and inconsistent to use, so of course most people are going to stick with the safest choices, AKA D2HD or DGR, for example.

If both Deathscythers are banned, you'll still have Neptune, Wyvern and Unicorn, which are pretty decent. But again, I don't think that would solve the problem of Attack being completely useless against most Layers.

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Well, all those new releases certainly buried this thread, but I think everyday is a good time to revive this discussion.

I do believe we should ban as little as possible because (Burst) Standard is not Limited, however I am very bored with winning combinations right now. Yes, there is Beast Behemoth coming soon, then Psychic Phantom and Inferno Ifrit, and I also should test Exceed Evileye soon and hopefully someone will follow me suite with Quad Quetzalcoatl and Driger S. However, if we ignore the future, we can probably all agree that something needs to change at the moment, right?

For some reason, Odin also does not appear to be as much of a problem, or just becomes the core problem yet again when unbanned depending on the same regions as before.

My previous feelings on this issue still stand: banning Deathscyther would just cause every other Layer underneath it in terms of stamina to climb the ladder, and those parts are Dark Deathscyther and Odin, which both have far greater defense than Deathscyther and are invulnerable to Valkyrie/Valtryek and other Attack-type Layers.

That would mean that the top-tier stamina Layers in the game would actually counter a far wider breadth of combos than Deathscyther currently does. And while the winning combos from the previous tourney don't show it due to two matches I lost, I also did won matches with Wyvern Heavy Revolve Vs. D and D2-based combos. Valtryek Heavy Variable can also do well, but I sincerely believe the cold weather made the tip less grippy than usual lol

We also haven't had a chance to check out Driger S or Quad Quetz like you said, and a ton more stuff is coming out in 11 days. It also seems like there is less demand from the community for a ban this time around versus when we discussed banning Odin.

As for Odin being less of a problem, I think it's because of D2's arrival and the release of Revolve which gave a big boost to other Layers, whereas I don't think Odin gains as much from it compared to using OHD.

Yeah nothing has actually changed since the last time this was raised.

Yeah nothing has actually changed since the last time this was raised.

Exactly...? So nothing has changed and you suggest that something must change, or all is OK and let us keep waiting?

No I meant that I was essentially agreeing with Brad in that banning Deathscyther wouldn't improve the situation at all and for the reasons he stated would probably make it worse since D2 and Odin (if it gets unbanned) have even less reliable counters than Deathscyther.

Is there less demand? Or is it more that demands have not been voiced? As we clearly know, we've only recently had these new releases and it doesn't seem like they've shown up in a tournament setting yet. But otherwise, as has been said, nothing has changed, so why should demands continue to be voiced if it's just echoing the same stuff over and over again?

As we can see from the Exceed Evileye test, it isn't our answer to the Dark Deathscyther issue in any way, though I'll personally be testing this when mine arrives, as well as Driger S and Quad Quetzalcoatl. But if this keeps up, it effectively stays as "nothing has changed".

We do have more products coming out very soon, which is promising again, but we can't use that as a reason to keep delaying a potential ban on this. Products come out every month. They will continue to come out every month, and every product has an unknown potential to be better than the current hell that is Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther.

My point of view? It's very clear from the Experimental thread that I'm heavily against Odin being unbanned in any form. My stance is very similar for Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther; they're horribly overused, create rather boring stamina battles and aren't exactly creative either. And the last thing we want is people feeling like they have to play D or D2 to be able to even have a chance of placing.

But I also respect that, if D/D2 are banned, we just move down the endless chain. Wyvern and Neptune would likely be splashed wherever possible but, after months of seeing Deathscyther spam, even I'd find that refreshing at this point. I think eliminating D/D2 from competitive play would be great even just for a breath of fresh air.

Currently, I'd like to see how it performs against Q2 and Driger S as they've already been released, but I don't believe we should be constantly waiting and hoping that the next release solves the issue. We've been doing that for long enough, and there's only so long we can cling to the hope of it.

Odin, Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther need to be on a banlist, even if just temporarily, to see if they would create a more fun and diverse competitive scene. Because the formula right now is stale, and I don't think people want to constantly see the same thing creep up. If it continues to be a one-trick pony format, removal of the bans should be considered, but we can't sit around and do "what ifs". We need to see some solution tried, and then we can take actual experience to decide what to do here.

As I've heard someone say on here recently, some action is really better than no action at the moment. And I personally do agree...

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You act as if stamina dominating (and by stamina I mean a few select parts) the metagame hasn't been a situation that hasn't been around forever. Earth and Burn were the only options for quite a while with MFB and no one cared. I don't see how its any different here apart from people being far more vocal. Banning things to make the metagame "more interesting" or "because some action is better than no action" when there's a high chance it could make the metagame even worse is a ridiculous idea. If we really have to ban something then banning both D and D2 would be better than just D.

You act as if stamina dominating (and by stamina I mean a few select parts) the metagame hasn't been a situation that hasn't been around forever. Earth and Burn were the only options for quite a while with MFB and no one cared. I don't see how its any different here apart from people being far more vocal. I don't think banning them will really do anything.

Attack types still did well for essentially anyone who could master them, which was not a niche, and Defense types still made sense. Things like Vulcan and Beat even had a place in the metagame from what I remember, even though they were quickly outclassed by another better Attack type.

It wasn't that way in UK. It was everyone using Stamina with a stray attack type occasionally.

We're not "delaying" anything because that assumes that a ban is a given, an inevitability. But I don't think it is, and I don't think the demand for it so far has justified it.

There is noticeably less demand for, or at least interest in, a ban for Deathscyther than there was for the original Odin ban (18 pages of discussion vs 4) and opinion is far more split on the issue. Finally, issuing a ban of the most popular parts immediately before the most intense two months of new releases all year — including left spin — seems like particularly bad timing, and would completely prevent us from seeing whether or not any of these releases can stand up to the game's current top-tier in a competitive environment.

You also say you're against unbanning Odin, which would mean that our standard format would ban three of the top parts in the game, even though all of them have solid counters within the existing system, which will move up all the parts underneath — parts with less clear vulnerabilities now that many of their best counters have been banned. This is an issue that is either going ignored but acknowledged and dismissed for the sake of change at any cost. If the issue is the lack of viable attack options, banning Deathscyther will only make this problem worse.

Banning parts from a standard format is a very serious decision that requires significant evidence and support from the competitive community. While there have some strong and passionate cases made in support of banning Deathscyther and some other parts, the fact is that anything that's top-tier will end up being overused.

You act as if stamina dominating (and by stamina I mean a few select parts) the metagame hasn't been a situation that hasn't been around forever. Earth and Burn were the only options for quite a while with MFB and no one cared. I don't see how its any different here apart from people being far more vocal. Banning things to make the metagame "more interesting" or "because some action is better than no action" when there's a high chance it could make the metagame even worse is a ridiculous idea. If we really have to ban something then banning both D and D2 would be better than just D.

That's why I've referred to both Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther as a collective. I don't see either of them being great for the metagame at the moment.

I'm also just going to out and say MFB =/= Burst. I'm not going to draw from MFB at any point in my analysis. I wasn't on the competitive scene at all during MFB (and even with it still running somewhat, I'm still not interested), and I see MFB and Burst as being very different gametypes as well.

I don't want to outright kill Stamina combos. But I really don't want to be looking at a match and going "Oh boy, it's another (Dark) Deathscyther stamina mirror match", and I think a lot of people can seriously relate to this as well.

I mean, really, how many people are playing Deathscyther because they enjoy it? Or are you playing it because you know it stands a chance of winning? I even see Deathscyther winners moaning about Deathscyther, and what does that say about the combo?

In my opinion, the metagame needs a breath of fresh air. I don't expect people to agree with the opinion, everyone is very welcome to disagree, as I know you are now, and I completely respect any and all opinions on the topic as well. I'm just voicing my own opinion and proposing something rather than moaning and then not acting.

I'm not saying the solution I've proposed is the best solution, let alone a decent solution at all, but I would rather not just sit around and moan about it without trying to propose something to prevent that.

We're not "delaying" anything because that assumes that a ban is a given, an inevitability. But I don't think it is, and I don't think the demand for it so far has justified it.

There is noticeably less demand for, or at least interest in, a ban for Deathscyther than there was for the original Odin ban (18 pages of discussion vs 4) and opinion is far more split on the issue. Finally, issuing a ban of the most popular parts immediately before the most intense two months of new releases all year — including left spin — seems like particularly bad timing, and would completely prevent us from seeing whether or not any of these releases can stand up to the game's current top-tier in a competitive environment.

You also say you're against unbanning Odin, which would mean that our standard format would ban three of the top parts in the game, even though all of them have solid counters within the existing system, which will move up all the parts underneath — parts with less clear vulnerabilities now that many of their best counters have been banned. This is an issue that is either going ignored but acknowledged and dismissed for the sake of change at any cost. If the issue is the lack of viable attack options, banning Deathscyther will only make this problem worse.

Banning parts from a standard format is a very serious decision that requires significant evidence and support from the competitive community. While there have some strong and passionate cases made in support of banning Deathscyther and some other parts, the fact is that anything that's top-tier will end up being overused.

I should clarify; I was referring to delaying a verdict, not delaying the ban. I'm not assuming a ban, especially when opinions are torn.

Nonetheless, I can't contest anything else you've said. I do agree with it all really. But, as you would expect, I do just find it frustrating that the metagame is stuck in this state. I know I'm not the only one frustrated, though perhaps I'm just venting about it rather obnoxiously and on a worse scale than it is...

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Dark Deathscyther isn't even a stamina-type, it's just an effective defense-stamina hybrid. Wyvern can outspin it, let alone Deathscyther. Unbanning Odin makes it a lot less intimidating, too. I sincerely feel like the scare over Dark Deathscyther is as overblown as the initial negative reaction to it. It's just a pretty good part.

I don't think it will be a "breath of fresh air" to just see Wyvern and Neptune in place of the banned parts; it will just reduce the variety of used combos even less, and erase what little attack there is from the game entirely.

Nonetheless, I can't contest anything else you've said. I do agree with it all really. But, as you would expect, I do just find it frustrating that the metagame is stuck in this state. I know I'm not the only one frustrated, though perhaps I'm just venting about it rather obnoxiously and on a worse scale than it is...

I agree with you, and I feel it too. Even though I don't find the combo variety as bad as some here do, it's still not as diverse as I wish it was. Just like I remember it from the plastics and HMS days, too. While there have been a ton of discoveries in plastics in particular over the years, we just didn't know that at the time, and getting access to Japanese releases was more cumbersome and expensive than it is today. And of course, HMS has only a handful of viable combos in its entire series. Heck, MFB has a special format here because Takara-Tomy obviated the entirety of previous releases in the system, removing years of parts from play in one fell swoop. Yikes.

Beyblade has never been a well-balanced game, nor was it designed to withstand the scrutiny of countless obsessive fans collaborating online. That doesn't mean we shouldn't work to address issues, but it's worth understanding this nature.

Now, if there's demand for a limited Burst format ... that's something else. My honest opinion is that it's too early in the line's life for that and that the situation is not severe enough to warrant it. The MFB limited format was created so that parts that were completely removed from competitive play just from being outweighed could be used again. But I think that banning Deathscyther OR Dark Deathscyther will just drastically decrease the combo quality by totally disincentivizing ANY kind of risk-raking. It's also worth remembering that we're still testing deck rotation, which will definitely increase the combination variety.

For some reason I never had anything but enthusiasm during Metal Fight Beyblade even though I was litterally forced to buy continuously to acquire the latest top-tier parts that outclassed others. Even if my wallet is happier now in that perspective, overall it makes for some boring rythm. In my opinion the Metal Fight Beyblade situation was better, there was almost no moment where I stopped to think: "Yikes". The last few Burst tournaments I attended have certainly been like repeats to me in terms of metagame. I do not know if this is the same for anyone else.

I am still unsure about a ban, but I just wanted to defend the Metal Fight Beyblade era and how interesting it was to always have to adapt, test new things and always be up-to-date. I also simply hope that not too many people get the same impression as me and end up not having any interest left to play in tournaments anymore, hah.

That's fair! I probably painted too negative of a picture, so I apologize for that. The overall point was that keeping things balanced has often been an issue, not to necessarily say that the situation with Burst is better than whatever happened with MFB (I don't think that, and I definitely acknowledge Burst's problems).

who/what is deathscyther....?

who/what is deathscyther....?

Deathscyther is a layer in the new generation Beyblade Burst and Dark Deathscyther is the evolution of the part.

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For some reason I never had anything but enthusiasm during Metal Fight Beyblade even though I was litterally forced to buy continuously to acquire the latest top-tier parts that outclassed others. Even if my wallet is happier now in that perspective, overall it makes for some boring rythm. In my opinion the Metal Fight Beyblade situation was better, there was almost no moment where I stopped to think: "Yikes". The last few Burst tournaments I attended have certainly been like repeats to me in terms of metagame. I do not know if this is the same for anyone else.

I am still unsure about a ban, but I just wanted to defend the Metal Fight Beyblade era and how interesting it was to always have to adapt, test new things and always be up-to-date. I also simply hope that not too many people get the same impression as me and end up not having any interest left to play in tournaments anymore, hah.

I think the closest I can think of for MFB back then was Libra, but I'm sure that was more of an Odin equivalent.

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My Cho-Z Reaper Deathscyther .12.Cr concept render, click below to see!

Spoiler (Click to View)

No I don't plan on doing more yet.

I should probably go back to making fan custom Zero G beyblade concepts again