I never liked how Destroy' got banned at the beginning of Burst Classic by being lumped in with Accel'/Blow' at the time, so I finally got around to doing some testing to see if Ds' could be unbanned in BSC.


Ds' Combos tested: Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy', Odin.Gravity.Destroy', Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy', and Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy'

I tested against 7 other BSC meta comboes I could create. Since I do not own duplicate layers, I could not test anything like V2.G.Ds' vs V2.H.X'. I do not own Ultimate Reboot' or Trans' or Zeta', so I could not test against comboes that use those. I also do not own a Polish disc, which I heard from Shindog has better LAD for DragoonF using Destroy' (https://youtu.be/dN5wbMsciQk), so that may change how DragoonF on Ds' against Octa (hasbro) comboes that it seemed to lose to.

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Key: SF - Spin Finish, KO - Knockout, BF - Burst Finish, WR - Winrate


Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' Testing

Spoiler (Click to View)

Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Xcalibur.Heavy.Keep'
(Launches alternated, since V2 was more of an attack combo.)
V2.G.Ds' - 11 wins (7 SF, 2 KO, 2 BF) (55% WR)
X.H.Kp' - 9 wins (7 SF, 1 KO, 1 BF) (45% WR)
Draws: 3


Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Odin.Heavy.Defense
(V2 launched 2nd in all battles)
V2.G.Ds' - 12 wins (1 SF, 2 KO, 9 BF) (60% WR)
O.H.D - 8 wins (6 SF, 2 KO) (40% WR)
Draws: 0

Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Kaiser Kerbeus.Knuckle.Orbit
(V2 launched 2nd in all battles)
V2.G.Ds' - 6 wins (2 SF, 1 KO, 3 BF) (30% WR)
K2.K.O - 14 wins (14 SF) (70% WR)
Draws: 0

Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Absorb
(V2 launched 2nd in all battles)
V2.G.Ds' - 16 wins (6 SF, 10 BF) (80% WR)
DGF.Y.Ab - 4 wins (4 SF) (20% WR)
Draws: 3

Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Gaianon G2.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(V2 launched 2nd in all battles)
V2.G.Ds' - 9 wins (3 SF, 2 KO, 4 BF) (45% WR)
G2.H.Octa - 11 wins (10 SF, 1 KO) (55% WR)
Draws: 0

Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Dark Deathscyther.Heavy.Revolve
(V2 launched 2nd in all battles)
(Only 10 battles due to one-sided results)
V2.G.Ds' - 1 win (1 KO) (10% WR)
D2.H.R - 9 wins (9 SF) (90% WR)
Draws: 0

Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Destroy' vs Roktavor.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Alternating between which bey was launched first, since both are attack comboes with non-rubber drivers)
V2.G.Ds' - 16 wins (6 SF, 2 KO, 8 BF) (80% WR)
R.H.Octa - 4 wins (3 SF, 1 KO) (20% WR)
Draws: 2

Commentary: The increase in stamina is nice as it allows V2 to win in defensive matchups it would go negative in or more stamina to win attack matchups it would go even in, but the loss of attack power makes it lose other comboes. Seems pretty balanced, unsure if I would use it in a deck in BSC. It might work in a deck with DGF on Ab was used to beat the K2 and D2 comboes.


Odin.Gravity.Destroy' Testing

Spoiler (Click to View)

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Victory Valkyrie.Heavy.Xtreme'
(V2 launched 2nd in all battles as O.G.Ds' is a tornado staller.)
(Only 10 battles due to one-sided results)
O.G.Ds' - 8 wins (6 SF, 2 KO) (80% WR)
V2.H.X' - 2 wins (1 KO, 1 BF)
Draws: 0
Comment: This one probably needs to be retested since I feel like I might have launched V2 poorly. In addition, I do not know how Ul' or Trans' would affect the matchup as I do not own them.

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Xcalibur.Heavy.Keep'
(Xcalibur launched 2nd in all battles)
O.G.Ds' - 15 wins (18 SF, 1 KO, 1 BF) (75% WR)
X.H.Kp' - 5 wins (4 SF, 1 KO) (25% WR)
Draws: 1

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Kaiser Kerbeus.Knuckle.Orbit
(Alternating between which bey was launched first.)
O.G.Ds' - 6 wins (3 SF, 3 KO) (30% WR)
K2.K.O - 14 wins (12 SF, 2 KO) (70% WR)
Draws: 1
Comment: Odin only really seemed able to win when it was launched second.

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Gaianon G2.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Alternating between which bey was launched first.)
O.G.Ds' - 10 wins (8 SF, 2 KO) (50% WR)
G2.H.Octa - 10 wins (10 SF) (50% WR)
Draws: 0

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Absorb
(Odin launched 2nd in all battles. I did this because of the results from the K2 testing.)
(Only did 13 non-tie battles because of one-sided results.)
O.G.Ds' - 11 wins (4 SF, 4 KO, 3 BF) (~85% WR)
DGF.Y.Ab - 2 wins (2 KO) (~15% WR)
Draws: 0

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Dark Deathscyther.Heavy.Revolve
(Odin launched 2nd in all battles. I did this because of the results from the K2 testing.)
O.G.Ds' - 9 wins (4 SF, 1 KO, 4 BF) (45% WR, though some of its wins are higher point values...)
D2.H.R - 11 wins (11 SF) (55% WR)
Draws: 0

Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Roktavor.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Roktavor was launched 2nd in all battles)
O.G.Ds' - 11 wins (6 SF, 5 BF) (55% WR)
R.H.Octa - 9 wins (9 SF) (45% WR)
Draws: 1

Commentary: Testing Odin was odd. I was unsure as to whether Odin should be always launched 2nd or if launches should be alternated. I think more accurate data could be found with 2 people testing, meaning simultaneous launching. Odin seemed to perform the best on Ds', washing the floor against V2 on X', X on Kp', and DGF on Ab, but went even against G2 on Octa, barely scraping over Octavor and D2, and losing to K2 (but K2 matchup was alternating launches). The idea of tornado stallers is mostly to go even against other things, beat out attack, and lose to more stamina dedicated comboes. I think this O.G.Ds' combo was able to do that, but I am a bit worried that it might not be countered well enough for how well it can perform against attack. Of course, I still have no data for how it fairs against Ul' and Trans' attack comboes.


Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' Testing

Spoiler (Click to View)

(I do not own a Polish disc, so some of these matchups might change if that disc was used.

Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Victory Valkyrie.Gravity.Xtreme'
(V2 was launched 2nd in all battles)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 12 wins (6 SF, 6 KO) 60% WR)
V2.G.X' - 8 wins (1 SF, 7 KO) (40% WR)
Draws: 2


Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Xcalibur.Heavy.Keep'
(Xcalibur was launched 2nd in all battles)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 12 wins (10 SF, 2 KO) (60% WR)
X.H.Kp' - 8 wins (6 SF, 2 KO) (40% WR)
Draws: 2
Comment: I don't know how this Dragoon combo fairs in this matchup compared to DGF.Y.Ab does.

Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Odin.Heavy.Defense
(Alternating between which bey was launched first)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 8 wins (1 SF, 7 KO) (40% WR)
O.H.D - 12 wins (11 SF, 1 KO) (60% WR)
Draws: 0
Comment: I think Destroy lacks some LAD without a frame. Also the increased mobility makes it harder to equalize as DGF is not heavy on its own to keep stamina after the mobility of Destroy.


Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Kerbeus.Knuckle.Orbit
(Alternating between which bey was launched first)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 6 wins (6 SF) (30% WR)
K2.K.O - 14 wins (14 SF) (70% WR)
Draws: 2
Comment: Its not that Ds' has no LAD on DGF, it was more of DGF got beaten up and never really came into a LAD situation.


Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Gaianon G2.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Alternating between which bey was launched first)
(Only did 10 battles due to one sided results.)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 1 win (1 KO) (10% WR)
G2.H.Octa - 9 wins (9 SF) (90% WR)
Draws: 0
Comment: This is is the part where I found Yell.Destroy' having less LAD than Hasbro Octa. Shindog tested Polish.Destroy' vs Hasbro Octa and that seemed to go differently.

Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Dark Deathscyther.Heavy.Revolve
(Alternating between which bey was launched first)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 1 win (1 KO) (10% WR)
D2.H.R - 9 wins (9 SF) (90% WR)
Draws: 1
Comment: Its not that Ds' has no LAD on DGF, it was more of DGF got beaten up and never really came into a LAD situation.

Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Destroy' vs Roktavor.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Roktavor was launched 2nd in all battles)
(Only did 10 battles due to one sided results.)
DGF.Y.Ds' - 2 wins (1 SF, 1 BF) (20% WR)
R.H.Octa - 8 wins (6 SF, 2 KO) (80% WR)
Draws: 1

Commentary: Overall, it felt like there was a fair trade off here. It became more of an anti-attack bey, but actually lost a majority of its LAD due to DGF's poor ability to equalize combined with more mobility (which means its a bit more difficult to equalize). This could change with replacing Yell with Polish.


Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' Testing

Spoiler (Click to View)

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Victory Valkyrie.Heavy.Xtreme'
(V2 was launched 2nd in all battles)
D2.G.Ds' - 18 wins (18 SF) (90% WR)
V2.H.X' - 2 wins (2 KO) (10% WR)
Draws: 0

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Xcalibur.Heavy.Keep'
(Xcalibur was launched 2nd in all battles)
D2.G.Ds' - 8 wins (8 SF)
X.H.Kp' - 12 wins (10 SF, 1 KO, 1 BF)
Draws: 1

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Kerbeus.Knuckle.Orbit
(Alternating launches)
D2.G.Ds' - 6 wins (6 SF) (30% WR)
K2.K.O - 14 wins (14 SF) (70% WR)
Draws: 1

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Odin.Heavy.Defense
(Alternating launches)
D2.G.Ds' - 6 wins (5 SF, 1 KO) (30% WR)
O.H.D - 14 wins (13 SF, 1 BF) (70% WR)
Draws: 0

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Dragoon Fantom.Yell.Absorb
(D2 was launched 2nd since DGF is super stationary.)
(Only 10 battles due to being one-sided)
D2.G.Ds' - 10 wins (6 SF, 4 BF) (100% WR)
DGF.Y.Ab - 0 wins (0% WR)
Draws: 0
Comment: Only 2 of the battles came down to LAD. It was more of D2 thrashing DGF.

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Gaianon G2.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Alternating launches)
D2.G.Ds' - 12 wins (11 SF, 1 BF) (60% WR)
G2.H.Octa - 8 wins (8 SF) (40% WR)
Draws: 1

Dark Deathscyther.Gravity.Destroy' vs Roktavor.Heavy.Octa (Hasbro)
(Roktavor was launched 2nd in all battles)
D2.G.Ds' - 10 wins (10 SF)
R.H.Octa - 10 wins (8 SF, 2 BF)
Draws: 6 (1 LAD tie, 5 double bursts)

Commentary: D2 seems to be better against attack but worse into the defensive and stationary attack matchups compared to Odin. Well, except D2 beats DGF and G2 much better than Odin.

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Overall thoughts and discussion:

I think Destroy' might be fine, but I think some stricter testing should be performed using it on Odin (with 2 people, alternating between who launches the beys) and using DragoonF.Polish.Destroy'. I might be able to do this, though it may take a while for me to get it to.
There is also Neptune, which I hear is good on tornado stall drivers. I do not own one, so I was unable to test this.

An interesting thought does come to mind, should Ds' be overpowered on Odin. Most of the tornado stall dash drivers have been banned for their use on Odin for the most part, so it might be worthy to test in the future if Odin should be banned instead of all those drivers? Though, there might be other layers that could take advantage of Accel'/Zephyr'/... that I am not aware of. Neptune is the only one that comes to mind.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

Awesome testing!  Thank you for taking the time to share.  In my opinion,  Neptune isn’t a very reliable tornado staller.

Thanks for sharing your results AirKingNeo.

Have you considered testing these combos against Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme'? Given Destroy's decent KO defense (when compared to other stallers) in same spin, I'm not surprised that Victory Valkyrie had a hard time KO'ing it. I'd be interested in seeing how frequently Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme' could burst the combos yous tested.

Again, many thanks for your tests.

Awesome testing!  Thank you for taking the time to share.  In my opinion,  Neptune isn’t a very reliable tornado staller.

I've never used Neptune for tornado stalling, so I can't say. When I asked about other tornado stall viable layers in Classic, it was the only one people seemed to recall (also I remember it being used a bit during the beta days of classic for tornado stalling). If there really is no other tornado stall layers, it might make the idea about Accel'/Zephyr'/... I had not a bad one.

Thanks for sharing your results AirKingNeo.

Have you considered testing these combos against Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme'? Given Destroy's decent KO defense (when compared to other stallers) in same spin, I'm not surprised that Victory Valkyrie had a hard time KO'ing it. I'd be interested in seeing how frequently Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme' could burst the combos yous tested.

Again, many thanks for your tests.

I do own Valkyrie, though its teeth might be weak. I'll try testing that combo at some point.

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.

Thanks for sharing your results AirKingNeo.

Have you considered testing these combos against Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme'? Given Destroy's decent KO defense (when compared to other stallers) in same spin, I'm not surprised that Victory Valkyrie had a hard time KO'ing it. I'd be interested  in seeing how frequently Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme' could burst the combos yous tested.

Again, many thanks for your tests.

Alright I finally got around to testing against Valkyrie. I only did it against Odin this time since it would perform similar to D2 and was the best layer with Ds'.

I opted for Knuckle over Heavy on Valkryie because of the burst risk Heavy had. Knuckle seemed to burst less.


Odin.Gravity.Destroy' vs Valkyrie.Knuckle.Xtreme'
(V.K.X' launched seconded always)
O.G.Ds' - 11 wins (4 Spin Finish, 3 Knockout, 4 Burst Finish) (55% Winrate)
V.K.X' - 9 wins (9 Knockouts) (45% Winrate)
Draws: 1 (Double burst)

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Give us Assault' re-release, Iron', and Charge'. Give a non-limited re-release of Cho-Z Achilles.
Legend Spriggan on tall attack drivers for Burst Limited is fun.
Against layer powercreep in Burst Limited.