A specific match is not a valid way to say that a component is outclassed.

If I recall correctly, you've done this numerous times in most of your argumentative posts..

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Actually, I'm pretty much saying "You're wrong. I'm right."

Well I mean, I agree with you completely, but how can you definitively say that he is wrong? He has a totally different set of experiences than we do, and given that this is Beyblade, you must know how many variables are at play. The only thing we can determine is what is right for the majority.

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After asking several experienced TH170 users, and testing my own TH170, I've heard(and noticed, though anecdotally) that the ridging on TH170/195/220 is more beneficial of a shape for Defense purposes than 230's shape, while 230's seems to be, overall, better for Stamina purposes.

So, for Defense purposes, my only doubt about TH170 "outclassing" 230 has been put to rest. In Defense, I can now honestly say I believe that TH170 is the infinitely superior parts - not just from testimonials and statements mentioned here, but from my own research.

However, as Kei has mentioned, I do believe there is validity in the difference of metagames having an impact on this discussion, and we really cannot outright claim what works better for the Italians. By OUR testing and tournament results, TH170 is the superior part in every way for Defense. But, the Italians may be seeing something different entirely.

Just throwing out my final stance on the issue. I apologize if this was not contributory.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Speaking of which, I've only heard from one italian, what do the others think?
Surely your opinion (Galaxy) cannot represent every italian's opinion, right?

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Actually, I'm pretty much saying "You're wrong. I'm right."

Well I mean, I agree with you completely, but how can you definitively say that he is wrong? He has a totally different set of experiences than we do, and given that this is Beyblade, you must know how many variables are at play. The only thing we can determine is what is right for the majority.

Much the same way that he can say that we are ignoring the facts and
that our responses have poor content.

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Credit for the avatar and sig go to Nic. THANK YOU!

START LIVING BEFORE YOU START DYING

So because some other "versatile" parts "suck", that means TH170 sucks? I would argue that TH170 is, overall, better than all of those parts anyways.

No Kei,i'm not saying this!
I'm saying that versatility is not always a good way to judge a component! That's why i asked to put aside this concept at the start of my discussion!
And yes,i agree TH170 is better than my examples anyways! I was doing that example to put in evidence that versatility is a concept that isn't always correct!

There will inevitably always be some conflict due to the clash of metagames when discussing the game on a general level with people from around the world, but please do not mistakenly assuming that we are implying "You're wrong. We're right" when we do state our opinions. We're saying that this is how it is for us; we do not understand and cannot claim to understand how it could be seen differently for your metagame.

It's ok about the fact that are a great difference between our MGs, but i think that all our experiences should be heard. If this don't happen, won't be a WBO made by users of all the world, but only a WBO for you guys.

please do not mistakenly assuming that we are implying "You're wrong. We're right" when we do state our opinions. We're saying that this is how it is for us; we do not understand and cannot claim to understand how it could be seen differently for your metagame.

Actually, I'm pretty much saying "You're wrong. I'm right."

Here,the concept i've explained before's been killed.

As for your point about the differing shapes of TH170 and 230, it is a valid point, but when would the shape play a huge factor? Against Attack types, maybe? Either way, I personally think that TH170 would be better against Attack types because of the 170/195 heights, and because Attackers would be more likely to hit the thicker top half of the Track and the Wheel, rather than the thinner bottom half.

Shape,in my opinion, have a big role in every match. I'm saying this because in all the matches, MWs does contact on the opponent's combo,and different shapes make different results. Then, of course, in Attack matches, this concept is more visible due to the fact that aggressive MWs do great impacts!

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Sorry for the double post,but it's because i can't do many quotes!

Cye says:
[
I'm saying that 220 defeats MANY tracks including 230 and all the tracks that 230 beats. Nothing I said means, "220 is better than 230 because it can beat 230." If part A can beat X, Y, and Z, but part B beats A, X, Y, and Z, then what reason do I have to use part A over part B?
]


No,Cye.
Once again:
the last time you said something about "230 defeats 85,90,100,105 and 220 defeats 85,90,100,105 and 230".
If you say this, i understand that you're saying that 220 and 230 have the same function against 85,90,100, and 105; then because 220 defeats also 230, you think that TH170 outckass 230.
And this is objective that you're saying at a specific match; i say this because until 105 you're saying that both TH170 and 230 are equal, after due to the specific match between 220 and 230, you say that 220 outclasses 230.

Dan says:
[
If I recall correctly, you've done this numerous times in most of your argumentative posts..

Speaking of which, I've only heard from one italian, what do the others think?
Surely your opinion (Galaxy) cannot represent every italian's opinion, right?
]

Hey Dan,can you quote here what you're saying?
I'm sorry if you understood that!
It wasn't in my intention!

The only two advanced member are me and yamislayer! How can you also hear the other opinion? xD
Also, not all italians have TH170 (if i remember good, the only that have this component are me and other 3! One of them is at 6 underground's stops from me,so you're listening the opinion of the 50% of the Italians xD) and not all italian can speak english! That's the problem!

Much the same way that he can say that we are ignoring the facts and
that our responses have poor content.

No,i'm not ignoring the fact,i'm analyzing your posts as you can read!
It's only another way to view the facts,but i've never sad that "i'm right and you're wrong", because i respect all the opinions.
What i was trying to say is that write posts like this:

Cye Kinomiya says:
Even if you put the versatility aside 220 is still better.



it is unpolite to me; this kind of posts insult my intelligence and my time.
And you're assuming that italian opinions are stupid because you're certainly correct.
Well done!

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

"Roma non è stata costruita in un giorno"

"Rome wasn't built in a day", and this understanding between us wont be either. Arguing about the way we argue isn't productive, and seems to be generating some hurt feelings. It would be nice if we could stick to talking about the beys and stop talking about each other.

I can start perhaps by talking about the shape difference between the two tracks. I find that while attack types can knock out both 230 and Th170, 230 seems to be less vulnerable to later-stage KO's because it is quite round and smooth. TH170 on the other hand has a lot of "rough" surfaces that can be caught by a wheel like VariAres and KOd even when the beys are moving more slowly.

Any other thoughts on the shape issue?

I can start perhaps by talking about the shape difference between the two tracks. I find that while attack types can knock out both 230 and Th170, 230 seems to be less vulnerable to later-stage KO's because it is quite round and smooth. TH170 on the other hand has a lot of "rough" surfaces that can be caught by a wheel like VariAres and KOd even when the beys are moving more slowly.

Any other thoughts on the shape issue?

Assuming that is true; what is more important: shape or height? I would argue that height is. Therefore, TH170 is better.

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I can start perhaps by talking about the shape difference between the two tracks. I find that while attack types can knock out both 230 and Th170, 230 seems to be less vulnerable to later-stage KO's because it is quite round and smooth. TH170 on the other hand has a lot of "rough" surfaces that can be caught by a wheel like VariAres and KOd even when the beys are moving more slowly.

Any other thoughts on the shape issue?

Assuming that is true; what is more important: shape or height? I would argue that height is. Therefore, TH170 is better.

I'm unclear as to your position on this issue. Can you clarify as to which track you think is better? :p

Certainly with a Basalt combo vs attack I would much prefer to make Wheel-Wheel contact than get hit in the spin track with either TH170 or 230. So from that standpoint I agree.

Actually, I agree in general that TH170 is the better track. After I got it, it replaced all of my 230 combos, so for me at least I consider 230 to be outclassed.

Funny thing about outclassed parts - they still have their uses! A couple of 230 combos have crept back into my bag of tricks recently, but pretty much for specific circumstances only. Other than that I much prefer the versatility of TH170 for my balance combos.

I'm unclear as to your position on this issue. Can you clarify as to which track you think is better? :p

Overall, TH170 is the better Track, no question about it.

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I'm unclear as to your position on this issue. Can you clarify as to which track you think is better? :p

Overall, TH170 is the better Track, no question about it.

LOL

There's an old saying in the communications world,

"There are three parts you need to include in a presentation to get your message across: Tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them what you have to tell them, the tell them what you told them."

I was being sarcastic, but that was a hilarious response!