[Product]  幻 (Gen) Layer Weight

(May. 13, 2019  2:57 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: As long as it can actually make Wizard Fafnir more usable against same spin, it would still be a valid purchase, I guess.
Won't it make wizard worse in opposite spin matches?
(May. 13, 2019  9:24 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote:
(May. 13, 2019  2:57 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: As long as it can actually make Wizard Fafnir more usable against same spin
Won't it make wizard worse in opposite spin matches?

nope it increases burst resistance apparently, and if it does a good job at that, well than WF zombie combos will be more reasonably safe especially since left spin is getting more and more common
(May. 13, 2019  11:22 AM)Garvin prime Wrote: nope it increases burst resistance apparently, and if it does a good job at that, well than WF zombie combos will be more reasonably safe especially since left spin is getting more and more common
I was talking about the reduced weight resulting in lesser LAD.

Also, the lesser weight will lead to lower stamina which will result in lower stamina. So, anyway the WF combo will lose. Not to forget how bad WF is in same spin matchups in general.
(May. 13, 2019  2:15 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: I was talking about the reduced weight resulting in lesser LAD.

Also, the lesser weight will lead to lower stamina which will result in lower stamina. So, anyway the WF combo will lose. Not to forget how bad WF is in same spin matchups in general.
well TBH anything about  (Maboroshi) is uncertain at best.
decreased weight, gained burst defence all of that will be certain only after released. 
also WF losing to same spin is the reason why it might be good for WF so the second line only enforces my point. 
in same spin battles, if this thing does its job well, you would have to take a left spin heavy hitter to do in WF, meaning having slightly lower stamina works out just fine. opposite spin would be decided by LAD so.. 
 Layer Weight
(May. 13, 2019  8:03 PM)Garvin prime Wrote: well TBH anything about [/size]幻 (Maboroshi)[size=medium] is uncertain at best.
decreased weight, gained burst defence all of that will be certain only after released. 
also WF losing to same spin is the reason why it might be good for WF so the second line only enforces my point. 
in same spin battles, if this thing does its job well, you would have to take a left spin heavy hitter to do in WF, meaning having slightly lower stamina works out just fine. opposite spin would be decided by LAD so..

I meant to say that WF is bad in same spin because of all the rubber anyway. Even if you don't burst and somehow maboroshi chip has same weight as normal layer weights, WF will lose by stamina.
(May. 14, 2019  10:01 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: I meant to say that WF is bad in same spin because of all the rubber anyway. Even if you don't burst and somehow maboroshi chip has same weight as normal layer weights, WF will lose by stamina.

In that case the fight is always determined by raw stamina. And the rubber on WF will also slow down the opponent. You can't just assume something will happen to one and not the other when they are in the same boat. for example, WF vs nL. Just as WF has tough time keeping it's spin speed, nL will also have the same difficulty. Now since LAD is out of the game mostly, the fight depends on the combos. Like if WF doesn't burst or get KO'ed, and nL is using extreme' then it is almost certain that nL will lose. So yeah there's that.
(May. 14, 2019  10:30 AM)Garvin prime Wrote: In that case the fight is always determined by raw stamina. And the rubber on WF will also slow down the opponent. You can't just assume something will happen to one and not the other when they are in the same boat. for example, WF vs nL. Just as WF has tough time keeping it's spin speed, nL will also have the same difficulty. Now since LAD is out of the game mostly, the fight depends on the combos. Like if WF doesn't burst or get KO'ed, and nL is using extreme' then it is almost certain that nL will lose. So yeah there's that.

That isn't even a stamina vs stamina battle. I was talking about something like WF vs gF or WF vs hS. Try out these battles (mirror combos) or ask someone to do these. I'm sure WF will have less than 50% winrate. And, BTW WF should have maboroshi weight.
(May. 14, 2019  10:30 AM)Garvin prime Wrote:
(May. 14, 2019  10:01 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: I meant to say that WF is bad in same spin because of all the rubber anyway. Even if you don't burst and somehow maboroshi chip has same weight as normal layer weights, WF will lose by stamina.

In that case the fight is always determined by raw stamina. And the rubber on WF will also slow down the opponent. You can't just assume something will happen to one and not the other when they are in the same boat. for example, WF vs nL. Just as WF has tough time keeping it's spin speed, nL will also have the same difficulty. Now since LAD is out of the game mostly, the fight depends on the combos. Like if WF doesn't burst or get KO'ed, and nL is using extreme' then it is almost certain that nL will lose. So yeah there's that.

Don't forget that the heavier Bey would be affected less, so WF with the Maboroshi Weight would lose pretty much every battle against a heavy Left-Spin Bey. WF would probably work best with Zan for an all-out stamina combo, but Maboroshi looks way too light to help.
(May. 14, 2019  11:51 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: Don't forget that the heavier Bey would be affected less, so WF with the Maboroshi Weight would lose pretty much every battle against a heavy Left-Spin Bey. WF would probably work best with Zan for an all-out stamina combo, but Maboroshi looks way too light to help.

heard acknowledged understood.
let's wait for it too see how it performs.
It's not Maboroshi weight. It's Gen weight




Gen weighs a whopping gram. One singular gram. (well, 1.16 grams but it rounds to one gram so shush :p)

So it looks like the best case scenario using Gen is is you become somewhat harder to burst while making your Layer weigh the same as a God Layer. Not looking very good so far, haha.
(May. 18, 2019  7:03 PM)TrainiacJ Wrote:


Gen weighs a whopping gram. One singular gram. (well, 1.16 grams but it rounds to one gram so shush :p)

So it looks like the best case scenario using Gen is is you become somewhat harder to burst while making your Layer weigh the same as a God Layer. Not looking very good so far, haha.
“Somewhat harder to burst”? It’s a literal burst stopper.

Edit: it’s hard to tell in the video you posted, but if you look at the other video you can see that’s how it works more or less.
(May. 18, 2019  7:41 PM)Ntruder19 Wrote: “Somewhat harder to burst”? It’s a literal burst stopper.

Edit: it’s hard to tell in the video you posted, but if you look at the other video you can see that’s how it works more or less.

It may prevent Bursting, sure, but it'll hardly matter when your combo is getting outspun by heavier same-spin stamina combos and being knocked out by heavier attackers like wV, choV, and Slash combos. It might fare better in opposite-spin stamina v. stamina matchups, like in the video i linked which has some test battles between WF幻 and pP, and even that made it out like WF was a pretty iffy counter. It just looks like the increased Burst resistance isn't worth the weight loss.
(May. 18, 2019  9:36 PM)TrainiacJ Wrote:
(May. 18, 2019  7:41 PM)Ntruder19 Wrote: “Somewhat harder to burst”? It’s a literal burst stopper.

Edit: it’s hard to tell in the video you posted, but if you look at the other video you can see that’s how it works more or less.

It may prevent Bursting, sure, but it'll hardly matter when your combo is getting outspun by heavier same-spin stamina combos and being knocked out by heavier attackers like wV, choV, and Slash combos. It might fare better in opposite-spin stamina v. stamina matchups, like in the video i linked which has some test battles between WF幻 and pP, and even that made it out like WF was a pretty iffy counter. It just looks like the increased Burst resistance isn't worth the weight loss.

I agree with TrainiacJ. The performance of the combo just didn't cut it IMO.
Sadly, I thought this would work well but I don't think it's that good as we thought it would be. Sure the concept is cool and it makes it hard to burst but would u rather risk SO much weight? You will easily get outspun because it's so light. ALTHOUGH I think this would work on the Zwei base because it has metal dragon heads. Let me guys know what u think about the Zwei concept I presented.
(May. 18, 2019  9:36 PM)TrainiacJ Wrote: It may prevent Bursting, sure, but it'll hardly matter when your combo is getting outspun by heavier same-spin stamina combos and being knocked out by heavier attackers like wV, choV, and Slash combos. It might fare better in opposite-spin stamina v. stamina matchups, like in the video i linked which has some test battles between WF幻 and pP, and even that made it out like WF was a pretty iffy counter. It just looks like the increased Burst resistance isn't worth the weight loss.

Feels like I've said this spiel before with layers like Vise Leopard. Burst resistance is good, but it's not worth losing all your combat ability even if you're nearly unburstable.
(May. 19, 2019  2:01 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: Feels like I've said this spiel before with layers like Vise Leopard. Burst resistance is good, but it's not worth losing all your combat ability even if you're nearly unburstable.
I agree with this. If you have reduced weight then you have:
i) reduced momentum which results in reduced attack.
ii) reduced stamina.
iii) reduced KO defense.
(May. 18, 2019  9:36 PM)TrainiacJ Wrote:
(May. 18, 2019  7:41 PM)Ntruder19 Wrote: “Somewhat harder to burst”? It’s a literal burst stopper.

Edit: it’s hard to tell in the video you posted, but if you look at the other video you can see that’s how it works more or less.

It may prevent Bursting, sure, but it'll hardly matter when your combo is getting outspun by heavier same-spin stamina combos and being knocked out by heavier attackers like wV, choV, and Slash combos. It might fare better in opposite-spin stamina v. stamina matchups, like in the video i linked which has some test battles between WF幻 and pP, and even that made it out like WF was a pretty iffy counter. It just looks like the increased Burst resistance isn't worth the weight loss.

I said that your statement of “somewhat harder to burst” was innacurate because it was. I never meant to imply that the weight loss wasn’t a problem.