World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Posting Results.

Dec. 13, 2010  10:12 PM
 
A lot of the research and testing we're doing is really helpful and informative, but my one concern is the fact that sometimes, they're not so easy to read. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but really, when I look at test results, I don't want to spend a lot of time looking for the information which is most important: the win rate.

I've mentioned this before in the The State of the Customisation Forum thread, but really we need to come to a general consensus.

Post your proposals, amendments, comments or whatever here. The sooner we can roll out a proper, standardised layout the better.
Dec. 13, 2010  10:36 PM
 
Agreed. It usually takes me a while to actually find results, depending on the poster.

Also; I feel like detailed results take up too much space (some people don't use it at all), and I don't think that when the outspin or the KO happened would actually help us at all. I say get rid of it completely or just have something like:

Outspins: X
KO's: X

Just decreases the clutter imo.
Dec. 14, 2010  12:39 AM
 
Detailed results are useless IMO. I don't usually find myself wondering exactly how many KOs a certain custom got, or exactly how many outspins occurred. If the information is important, a general statement of "it usually wins by KO" or "it usually wins by outspin" is good enough for me. Some people might feel differently though.

As for the formatting of test results, I have always found my format the most easy on the eyes:

Kei Wrote:MF Lightning L Drago 100RF vs. MF Earth Aquario GB145CS
MF Lightning L Drago 100RF: 18 wins
MF Earth Aquario GB145CS: 1 win
1 draw
CS win percentage: 5%

It perhaps is a bit wordy, but I think it is more effective both visually and in terms of being able to discern specific pieces of information than most of the other formats I have seen. Every possible piece of information you would want is on a separate line. There is no clutter and the bolded/underlined title defines what is being tested perfectly.
Dec. 14, 2010  3:25 AM
 
You could just use a ratio if you want. and hell, who needs percents?
18:1:1


Brevity rules. ALL OR NONE MAN
Dec. 14, 2010  3:38 AM
 
Personally everything was fine in general. The only problem I see is when people put a lot of things in spoilers, in bold, and forget to put proper spacing between sets of results, so when you open the spoiler, you have no idea where it ends, etc. I do not think we should necessarily omit results of each battle, sometimes it is interesting. For certain it should only be in spoilers though.
Dec. 14, 2010  6:34 AM
 
(Dec. 14, 2010  3:25 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: You could just use a ratio if you want. and hell, who needs percents?
18:1:1


Brevity rules. ALL OR NONE MAN

Serious

But yeah, people need to be careful how they use things like spoilers in conjunction with other results. It can get very messy and difficult to decipher.
Dec. 14, 2010  11:44 AM
 
(Dec. 14, 2010  12:39 AM)Kei Wrote: MF Lightning L Drago 100RF vs. MF Earth Aquario GB145CS
MF Lightning L Drago 100RF: 18 wins
MF Earth Aquario GB145CS: 1 win
1 draw
CS win percentage: 5%

I've always liked this format. Simple, Informative, and, as Kei said, easy on the eyes.

I honestly don't think the ratio thing would catch on though, imo.
Dec. 14, 2010  9:33 PM
 
I'm guilty for posting such long and confusing results, but I'm glad Heart raised the important point here. As I've done in the past with some of my results, I used [spoilers] and posted Outspins and Knock Outs, thinking that people were interested in the condition of the victory.

However, as Oki mentioned, I think we need to eliminate the need for posting the details of the victory, as interesting as they may be. We need to decrease that clutter and cut right to the results.
Dec. 14, 2010  10:55 PM
 
With MF coming out soon for instance however, would it not be very interesting to know whether the victories were done by knocking out the opponent or outspinning it ? Unless you really take the time to write about it, but I personally prefer seeing clear lines of just "[x] by KO/OS" than paragraphs of text, and considering we have kids here as well, they probably think the same way.
Dec. 17, 2010  12:53 AM
 
Yeah, I don't think it's necessary for the spoilers or detailed test results, but I think that sometimes the method of winning is very important.

Kei Wrote:MF Lightning L Drago 100RF vs. MF Earth Aquario GB145CS
MF Lightning L Drago 100RF: 18 wins (10 OS, 8 KO)
MF Earth Aquario GB145CS: 1 win (1 OS)
1 draw
CS win percentage: 5%

Is my favourite too, but I think somewhere in there KO/OS needs to be fitted in. Maybe after the number of wins like I've written here, or is this too convoluted again? I guess it could be added only where it's significant.
Dec. 17, 2010  4:34 AM
 
That seems good to me, actually. If people think it's necessary for their results, that's how it should be done.
Dec. 18, 2010  7:18 PM
 
To avoid this:
"Equipment Used:
Beylauncher L
Beylauncher
(if it were stamina Alternating Shots)
WB launched at 80%
Takara Tomy Attack Stadium"
etc. etc. maybe at the top people should just write
"Standard Equipment/Procedures", assuming they are.
and perhaps include the definition of 'standard' in momo's thread.
Dec. 26, 2010  12:41 AM
 
(Dec. 18, 2010  7:18 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: To avoid this:
"Equipment Used:
Beylauncher L
Beylauncher
(if it were stamina Alternating Shots)
WB launched at 80%
Takara Tomy Attack Stadium"
etc. etc. maybe at the top people should just write
"Standard Equipment/Procedures", assuming they are.
and perhaps include the definition of 'standard' in momo's thread.

Yeah, definitely. Most of the time with serious testing, this is a given, so it makes a lot of sense to just condense it like that.

The new results layout is so simple and easy in my opinion, and has made it even more difficult to decipher results in various spoilered/list forms, haha. We should probably make a new thread in Beyblade Customisations to highlight this method, after we clarify "standard procedures" ...
Dec. 26, 2010  3:09 AM
 
I have one small, niggling concern about Standard Procedures. Most everybody does testing solo, but (as is the case with Mc Frown sometimes, iirc) what if it is two people doing the testing?
Dec. 26, 2010  3:24 AM
 
"Standard procedures for two players" ? "Ideal procedures", referring to the atmosphere of a tournament, but including the exchange of Beyblades as well ? Hm, I agree that it should probably be mentioned somewhere.
Dec. 26, 2010  7:39 AM
 
I was thinking as well for a set standard procedure for performing Attack Testing when needed. Perhaps alternating straight shots with a minimum of 20 rounds to exclude any variables?
Dec. 30, 2010  6:00 PM
 
(Dec. 14, 2010  3:38 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Personally everything was fine in general. The only problem I see is when people put a lot of things in spoilers, in bold, and forget to put proper spacing between sets of results, so when you open the spoiler, you have no idea where it ends, etc. I do not think we should necessarily omit results of each battle, sometimes it is interesting. For certain it should only be in spoilers though.

So these are totally amazing and *insert more amazing*, right? xD
Did take me ages to get spacing and stuff correct though...

(Aug. 07, 2010  4:04 AM)Jerf Wrote: Series of Testing with MF Pegasis 145(+variants)RF

MF+145 (Click to View)

Maybe if a template which someone could copy and use to post their results on were made, may help with ridiculous result posts.
Mar. 17, 2011  3:29 AM
 
(Dec. 26, 2010  7:39 AM)Fyuuor Wrote: Perhaps alternating straight shots with a minimum of 20 rounds to exclude any variables?

Wasn't sure where else to post about this, but now that I see Fyuuor mentioned it, I suppose here is fine.

This is what seems to be happening to me:
  • People think of an ~*amazing*~ combo and decide to test it.
  • They conduct 10 tests and garner positive results.
  • They then immediately post a thread declaring its top-tier status.

I'm not talking about anyone in specific here; it just seems like it is generally what people have been doing. The more tests you do, the smaller chance for variables there will be, so I agree that 20 tests should be the minimum standard for testing new customs (and when I say "20 tests", I mean 20 against each custom you're planning to test it against). Unless you end up getting a custom going 10-0 after already doing extensive testing, it seems like a waste of time to just do 10 rounds.
Mar. 17, 2011  4:02 AM
 
I'm a player of Poker Texas Hold'em. Why i'm saying this? Because the test in Beyblade is something that's very near to the concept of the Poker.
When you play Poker,you've got some random hands and you can choose to Check,Fold or Raise the Pot. You choose looking your hands,and maybe with a Top Hand as AA,you'll go in All-in,but at the end of the streets,you'll lose and your opponent will win all the pot with a donk hand. So you're asking to youself why a Top hand loose against a random hands. Well,that's because the Top hand that you've played is strong in the time,not always at the moment of your All-in. This is the exact concept that we must apply on BeyBlade.
I think that it's unacceptable that on 10 rounds people start to say that the *amazing combo* (quoting Kei xD) is a new Top Tier!
I think that Top Tier combos must be studied in the time,on a lot of testing,because a Top Tier mustn't win necessary every match,but on an history of 50 matches,35-40 it must win.
So i think that an intensive test to study new Top combos must be done on 25 matches per opponent's type (Attack,Defense,Anti-Meta,Combined,Stamina).
Mar. 17, 2011  4:25 AM
 
I do agree that more than ten tests should be done per person, however, as I was telling someone who had apparently also studied Statistics, yes thirty results is the minimum required to even establish significant relations, but what we lose in individual accuracy I think we gain in community testing. Because nothing gets made top-tier if not a few people get the same results anyway ...