like the metal gear solid 4 thread but where people can discuss spoilers
Metal Gear Solid 4 Spoilers Thread
shawn elliot wrote some good stuff on his 1up blog
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8775...Id=4551247
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772...Id=4551247
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8775...Id=4551247
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772...Id=4551247
incondite Wrote:shawn elliot wrote some good stuff on his 1up blog
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8775...Id=4551247
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772...Id=4551247
Honestly I dislike Shawn simply because of this sort of stuff.
He's always digging for meaning where there isn't meant to be any. I responded to the second link you posted. My name there is DenverMax, but for you lazy ones, here's my post:
"This is one of the aspects of narrative in games that I don't like.
I appreciate games that try to deliver a message with their story, but at the same time it gets a little frustrating when people try to draw parallels between a game's plot and real life. Sure, occasionally there are some very self-evident similarities, but most of the time I'm playing video games to escape from reality, not to be immersed in an alternate version of it.
I've already finished MGS4 and I thought that as a game it was ground breaking. There really is nothing else like this on the market. Its easy to argue that the production value and the resulting lengthy cut-scenes ruin the actual game portions, but I don't think they do. They just enhance the level of immersion that's already there.
To be honest, I think you among many other people are reading into this a little too much. The story in MGS4 (and across all MGS games, really) is interesting in that it combines real, plausible things like war and nuclear missiles with things like men shooting bees out of their arms. Its clearly fictional, and most often metaphorical, but I think people need to stop trying to find meaning where there wasn't meant to be any in the first place. I don't think the plot in MGS4 is necessarily trying to make us think a certain way, but rather to look into the issue and devise your own opinion. I know that after beating the game I went straight to the computer and started looking up stuff about PMCs and the US Government's involvement with them. Maybe something else might have sparked my interest in this issue somewhere later on down the line, but the fact is MGS4 did. It brings up a very tangible issue in current, every day life and presents it in a sort of quasi-realistic light, inspiring people to think about the very issue that is present in real life. I don't really think Kojima or the rest of the team behind MGS4 were trying to preach a message, other than that of being very anti-war, but the plots have had this message almost as long as the series has been around.
This troubles me: " 'Solid Snake is by far one of the best heroes of our generation, though it takes wise people to see this' -- and we've entered an alternate time line where Martin Luther King Jr. and Mother Theresa never lived and the measure of humanity is a gun-toting Houdini."
If anyone truly thinks that Solid Snake is a hero of any sort outside of a purely fictional video game world, there is obviously something wrong with them. While I agree that Solid Snake is definitely a cultural icon for our times, along with Master Chief and maybe even Niko from GTA IV, I don't think anyone in their right mind would idolize these characters over real-life role models such as the ones you listed. As I said before, if they are doing this then well... There is clearly something wrong upstairs.
Actually, maybe it isn't all too far-fetched to think that gun-toting bad asses are the moral idols for kids these days. Violence has more or less become the backbone for American society, and its easy for kids to see these sorts of archetypes in games and follow in their convictions or beliefs. But that's really no different than say 10 or 20 years ago when kids were idolizing GI Joe characters or during past war times when the war propaganda preached to the general public about the enemy (Rather be Dead than Red, etc).
Anyway, I suppose I had better wrap this wall of text up. What I'm really trying to say is that I don't think MGS4 is pushing any sort of message about real-world conflicts to players; rather, I think its just generally trying to get people to think. Not about any certain viewpoint or which set of morals is right or wrong, but just to consider the issue yourself. Any parallels that there may be between our current situation and the situation in MGS4's plot are purely metaphorical or simply meant to provoke discussions like this!"
![[Image: ww16xw.png]](https://i53.tinypic.com/ww16xw.png)
what about the other one?
incondite Wrote:what about the other one?
I haven't read that one yet, so I don't really have anything to say about it at the moment.
read it
it's much better, short too
it's much better, short too
I just read it.
Again, I really think people are reading into the story of MGS4 way too much.
I hate to discount the weight of storytelling in games by saying this because I am a firm believer in the medium, but for carp's sake, its a video game.
These people going off on rants about how the story in MGS4 is or isn't a "window into the future" are wasting their breath. I mean of course Kojima presents us with an anti-war message. He's done this through the entire series and its pretty obvious what his message is with this game (PMCs are bad, the war economy is an awful thing blah blah blah).
I think the real issue is that he's trying to present rather serious and realistic issues in a game (or series, really) where completely unrealistic things are happening. By doing this, he pretty much negates any real weight that his message could have had because he really does not know how to trim the excess.
Maybe its a little ignorant or narrow-minded of me to place the blame solely on Kojima, but as far as I know, he's the one that has written and directed all of the games, so if anyone were to alter their direction it would have to be him, correct?
To sum it all up, I really think this discussion is a fruitless one, because let's face it. The most this game is going to make you do is go online and research Blackwater and PMCs and who knows? Maybe that was Kojima's intention all along. Its not like this is going to compel people to riot against the government or something crazy like that.
So there. That's my thoughts on the issue. I think people should take the plot in MGS4 for what it is: purely fictional drivel, ripping quasi-realistic issues from today's headlines and smashing them together to make something that is ultimately a good product, and above all, a good video game.
Again, I really think people are reading into the story of MGS4 way too much.
I hate to discount the weight of storytelling in games by saying this because I am a firm believer in the medium, but for carp's sake, its a video game.
These people going off on rants about how the story in MGS4 is or isn't a "window into the future" are wasting their breath. I mean of course Kojima presents us with an anti-war message. He's done this through the entire series and its pretty obvious what his message is with this game (PMCs are bad, the war economy is an awful thing blah blah blah).
I think the real issue is that he's trying to present rather serious and realistic issues in a game (or series, really) where completely unrealistic things are happening. By doing this, he pretty much negates any real weight that his message could have had because he really does not know how to trim the excess.
Maybe its a little ignorant or narrow-minded of me to place the blame solely on Kojima, but as far as I know, he's the one that has written and directed all of the games, so if anyone were to alter their direction it would have to be him, correct?
To sum it all up, I really think this discussion is a fruitless one, because let's face it. The most this game is going to make you do is go online and research Blackwater and PMCs and who knows? Maybe that was Kojima's intention all along. Its not like this is going to compel people to riot against the government or something crazy like that.
So there. That's my thoughts on the issue. I think people should take the plot in MGS4 for what it is: purely fictional drivel, ripping quasi-realistic issues from today's headlines and smashing them together to make something that is ultimately a good product, and above all, a good video game.
ryan
the second blog post is about shadow moses and what shawn really likes about the game
the second blog post is about shadow moses and what shawn really likes about the game
incondite Wrote:ryan
the second blog post is about shadow moses and what shawn really likes about the game
I know it is, but he's still going on about how there are comparisons between the game and modern living.
I don't care what Shawn likes or doesn't like about the game, his word isn't law to me. I have my opinion about it, he has his. I just don't like the way he goes about presenting his.
i wish they told what really was going on with liquid's arm (ocelot WAS possessed by liquid in mgs2 but he removed the arm, got a raiden/snatcher/thingy repacement one and hypnotized himself into thinking he was liquid to fool the patriots); also, vamp's immortality being caused by nanomachines was lame (mg universe pixie dust now), and they didn't say anything about fortune's bullet blocking power.
all the characters from past games feel sort of crappy now... meryl does some real numbskull things with johnny in the later half of the game, otacon loses someone and cries just like with both sniper wolf and emma, vamp works for ocelot dispite him killing both fortune and her dad who vamp had relationships with, para-medic would never do the stuff she did for the patriots judging from her mgs3 personality, there could have been some neat story things going on with cambell in act 2 since he was big boss' buddy in mpo (which also took place in south america), we are never shown how raiden became a cyborg ninja and how he rescued sunny, naomi and mei ling lost their accents, the sorrow really should have been in the game a lot more than his "lol sup snake, you a badass!" cameo because he is ocelot's daddy and is (i am guessing) the reason liquid was able to take control of ocelot, by the way liquid should have really been in the game, all the stuff he was getting at in mgs2 is now moot, finally as much as i loved what they did with snake (his aging was cool) david hayter really failed on the voice acting; he pretty much makes snake but he wasn't able to voice old snake as well as i think he could have.
although i really loved it when snake lit big boss' cigar (in metal gear 2, snake killed him using a lighter to make a flamethrower),shadow moses was brilliant, drebin and sunny are awesome, raden's a badass ninja (quinton flynn's voice acting was a++++++ he really nailed it), as much as i think the beauty and the beast corps. could have been more connected to the metal gear universe; they were great, and i loved how they explained the "your blood flows from the east mannnn" line from mgs1 by vulcan raven.
/mgs fag crazyness
all the characters from past games feel sort of crappy now... meryl does some real numbskull things with johnny in the later half of the game, otacon loses someone and cries just like with both sniper wolf and emma, vamp works for ocelot dispite him killing both fortune and her dad who vamp had relationships with, para-medic would never do the stuff she did for the patriots judging from her mgs3 personality, there could have been some neat story things going on with cambell in act 2 since he was big boss' buddy in mpo (which also took place in south america), we are never shown how raiden became a cyborg ninja and how he rescued sunny, naomi and mei ling lost their accents, the sorrow really should have been in the game a lot more than his "lol sup snake, you a badass!" cameo because he is ocelot's daddy and is (i am guessing) the reason liquid was able to take control of ocelot, by the way liquid should have really been in the game, all the stuff he was getting at in mgs2 is now moot, finally as much as i loved what they did with snake (his aging was cool) david hayter really failed on the voice acting; he pretty much makes snake but he wasn't able to voice old snake as well as i think he could have.
although i really loved it when snake lit big boss' cigar (in metal gear 2, snake killed him using a lighter to make a flamethrower),shadow moses was brilliant, drebin and sunny are awesome, raden's a badass ninja (quinton flynn's voice acting was a++++++ he really nailed it), as much as i think the beauty and the beast corps. could have been more connected to the metal gear universe; they were great, and i loved how they explained the "your blood flows from the east mannnn" line from mgs1 by vulcan raven.
/mgs fag crazyness
yeah act 4 was my favorite too
Artie Wrote:yeah act 4 was my favorite toomech fight done right
The end of Act 4 was awesome.
The rest of it, however... Not so awesome.
The rest of it, however... Not so awesome.
well from a gameplay perspective it isn't the hottest act... but they way they pulled off old snakes aging, shadow moses, and things is amazing, best part of mgs4 story wise for me.
also my sig is totally what the carp lolol.
also my sig is totally what the carp lolol.
did anyone notice
the AI's; TJ, AL, TR, GW = initals of mt. rushmore presidents
Decoy Octopus + Solidus (tentacles) + The Joy = Laughing Octopus
Vulcan Raven + Fatman (explosives) + The Fury = Raging Raven
Sniper Wolf + Fortune (rail gun) + The Sorrow = Crying Wolf
Psycho Mantis + Vamp (knives) + The Fear = Screaming Mantis
the AI's; TJ, AL, TR, GW = initals of mt. rushmore presidents
Decoy Octopus + Solidus (tentacles) + The Joy = Laughing Octopus
Vulcan Raven + Fatman (explosives) + The Fury = Raging Raven
Sniper Wolf + Fortune (rail gun) + The Sorrow = Crying Wolf
Psycho Mantis + Vamp (knives) + The Fear = Screaming Mantis
hahaha i notice the AI stuff
interesting about the B+B Corps
interesting about the B+B Corps
SK Wrote:did anyone noticei noticed all that a while ago
the AI's; TJ, AL, TR, GW = initals of mt. rushmore presidents
Decoy Octopus + Solidus (tentacles) + The Joy = Laughing Octopus
Vulcan Raven + Fatman (explosives) + The Fury = Raging Raven
Sniper Wolf + Fortune (rail gun) + The Sorrow = Crying Wolf
Psycho Mantis + Vamp (knives) + The Fear = Screaming Mantis