i believe CH120 will be a really good piece soon. 120 height steals from 145 height, and 145 height (have to try this) hopefully steals spin from 230.

not sure anyway.

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"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Defense types are supposed to have that high a win rate against attack types. Also, I agree that Libra being good at attack vs attack is not enough to warrant a ban.

As far as 120 and 145 stealing spin, I think Kei did some tests with his destabilize at that height against 230. If I recall correctly, 230 had high win rates.

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so... we've been discussing on this, why not making a choice?

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

I'm not sure, but I think it's up to the Commitee.

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should we ask for it exposing our points then?

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

I'm sure they read this thread and have already seen our points.

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As far as 120 and 145 stealing spin, I think Kei did some tests with his destabilize at that height against 230. If I recall correctly, 230 had high win rates.

Yeah, it had a slight amount of success at the 145 height against 230, but that was with WD. When 230 is paired with CS, it becomes even taller and there was no competition whatsoever in the tests that I did.

so... we've been discussing on this, why not making a choice?

I personally am for unbanning it right now; I think we have enough evidence. However, while some of the Committee agrees, they also feel that we still need more concrete testing done before a final decision is made. I would do testing myself, but I haven't got the time right now.

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Yes, we just want a lot of results to base our decision on. Every set of test results should be confirmed by more than one person, especially in this situation.

Didn't Libra CH120RF win by meager percentages against laughable combos?
iirc Libra CH120RF managed a 55% win rate agaist Libra C145WB.

In my defense when I created this combo the most recent release was Lightning L-Drago

Yes, we just want a lot of results to base our decision on. Every set of test results should be confirmed by more than one person, especially in this situation.

Working on this... time consuming @@

Didn't Libra CH120RF win by meager percentages against laughable combos?
iirc Libra CH120RF managed a 55% win rate agaist Libra C145WB.

In my defense when I created this combo the most recent release was Lightning L-Drago

LOL
It hasn't aged well :V

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very few parts have, it seems

did some test with Libra wheel.
From my results, if we think that libra is impossible to beat with attack types, we're probably wrong.

the real game breaking piece is...
230 track! 230 RS based combos really have impressive win% against attack types, it doesn't matter if there's an earth or a libra wheel on it.

i tried mf h earth bull GB145 RS and mf h libra GB145 RS and got very similar results.
they did good as defense combos, but they were not unbeatable at all.

In my opinion there is no reason to keep libra wheel banned. Like I said before, if you should fear something,
I'd say fear 230 track.

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Yamislayer would you care to redo the tests of Libra 230RS against either/or MF Lightning L Drago CH145RF, MF Meteo L Drago CH145RF or Gravity Perseus (Left Spin, Counter Mode) CH145RF? The only success I've had with an Attack type Beyblade against 230RS is by using a Left Spin Beyblade at a 145 height against 230RS. The reason for the CH track is to allow the combo to switch track heights to CH120 mode for normal 145 opponents which allows the Attack Type Beyblade the opportunity to be able to counter traditional Stamina and Defence types not just 230 combos.

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Did i say something different?
I said that 230 is the real problem, not libra.

I'm saying that 230 is good, not bad.
i'll test the steal spin ability tomorrow anyway, i remember that when i tried that i didn't get really good resulsts (using perseus) but i'll retry and try meteo and lightning too.

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Did i say something different?
I said that 230 is the real problem, not libra.

I'm saying that 230 is good, not bad.
i'll test the steal spin ability tomorrow anyway, i remember that when i tried that i didn't get really good resulsts (using perseus) but i'll retry and try meteo and lightning too.

I think you may have read my post incorrectly. Since you were testing the Libra wheel along with 230RS, I'm strongly recommending those combos as a counter to either Libra or Earth 230RS. The combos I recommended are combos which I have found to be effective against 230RS opponents.

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oh i see. i'll test them as soon as possible

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

Just a note: when I made the call to ban Libra I never had the intention of keeping it permanent. I've been observing this debate for months now and I honestly can't see a compelling reason to keep it banned if the evidence given is accurate. ;x

Just a note: when I made the call to ban Libra I never had the intention of keeping it permanent. I've been observing this debate for months now and I honestly can't see a compelling reason to keep it banned if the evidence given is accurate. ;x

Yeah, I made a point of mentioning this a little while ago, here.

I think everyone is in favour of unbanning it now, but Kai-V just thinks we need to see more testing done by more people to help confirm the results we've seen so far.

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Just curious, how is Libra 100D?
SDES got me wondering.

I doubt its good enough to change anything, but yeah. And I'm sorry if anyone has posted this already :V

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I was reading through Fyuuor's RSF vs RS vs CS thread and it looked like there really isn't a defense combo that has an answer for MF Lightning L Drago 100RF. Only RS could get 5-5 results. (I don't have 230 yet.) I tried MF-H Earth Bull C145CS, but the attack combo got a 90% win rate similarly to Fyuuor's test. I thought that the Libra Wheel would definitely get better results so:
MF-H Lightning L Drago 100RF vs MF-H Libra C145CS
7-13 Libra win rate: 65

I randomly thought about the recent thread about low track defense combos and:
MF-H Lightning L Drago 100RF vs MF-H Libra 85CS
5-15 Libra win rate: 75%

When I think about it from the perspective that only the Libra wheel (bar 230 combos) stands up to MF Lightning L Drago 100RF, I feel even moreso that it should be unbanned.

I ran some other tests too:
MF-H Libra 85CS vs Earth Bull 85SD
1-9 Libra win rate: 10%

MF-H Libra C145CS vs Earth Bull 85SD
8-2 Libra win rate: 80%

MF-H Libra C145CS vs  Earth Bull AD145SD
0-10 Libra win rate: 0%

With MF-H Libra C145CS vs Earth Bull 85SD, the Libra combo would force the stamina combo into the stadium floor really easily so I switched to AD145.

All tests were done in the attack stadium with MFB grips. With the MF Lightning L Drago 100RF tests, the attack combo was always launches second with a banking shot. The first combo would be shot with a straight shot. With all other tests, both were launched with a straight shot and I switched which one was shot first every round.

EDIT: I'll test Libra 100D when I have time.

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230 defense combos are an answer for ll drago 100rf :V, but yeah.

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Guys, a lot of tests were made.
Here's my idea.
Let's reintroduce libra to our metagame, and let's see how does it perform.
we shouldn't wait so much, don't you think the same?

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

yeah, a temp unban is what ive been advocating

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