MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS (WIP)

Introduction (Click to View)

Ok, so I know what yall must be thinking after reading the title. "Oh, it's another one of Wombat's combos, so it'll basically be another weird concept that sounds like it will work but actually doesn't". But this kind of idea has been brewing in my head since 2012, when I saw this post:

That VariAres R145DS was totally freaking me out

The theory is pretty simple. Stick an increadible recoil wheel on an increadible recoil track and watch things recoil KO off it. The odd part is that it normally requires something like RS (RDF?) to not get KOed itself. DS seems a little frictionless to me.

It came up again with RS' recent unbanning:

Now that I think about it MF-H Omega Horuseus ___ RS could be fun to try. (Weight room!)

And the last straw was during TBR, when BlasterJoker went 2-0, defeating my MF Omega Horuseus 100RF 3-2 and Dark_Mousy's Libra 230D 3-1 using this exact combo (he used Saramanda against me but the concept remains the same). With his permission, I decided to test the combo, and while I don't expect it to be considered for top-tier I still thought it would be worth posting just because it's so interesting.

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Parts Choice (Click to View)

• MSF-H: for maximum weight and friction. This combo and its variants will be taking a lot of recoil and it needs MSF-H to handle the recoil as best as it can.
  
• Dark Knight: The only Left-Spin Crystal Wheel. Conveniently, it is also very small and reveals Bregirados' contact points well. Berserker can probably be used as a Right-Spin alternative as it lines up with Bregirados almost perfectly.
  
• Bregirados: While in my second post I originally suggested Omega, BlasterJoker's use of a Chrome Wheel instead was brilliant, as the imbalance allows even a legal RS to have a degree of aggression (although it led to some controversy during the tournament). Something else I discovered during testing is that Bregirados has a carp ton of Smash (and also recoil), landing several late game KOs.
  
• T125: No real reason behind this except for that it was the Track BlasterJoker used. CH120 may work better.
  
• RS: The primary part of the combo, RS allows the combo to control recoil and resist being KOed, while providing the most raw Defense in a single part in MFB.
  

Tests (Click to View)

Well, first off, I don't know exactly how valid these are, since I only have 1 RS and it looks like this:

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Image: ejnsp4X.jpg]

But if anyone else has a RS in better condition please feel free to contribute to the topic.

Attack (Click to View)

MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS vs. MF Omega Horuseus 100RF
Bregirados: 8 wins (5 KO, 3 OS)
Horuseus: 12 wins (all KO)
5 ties redone
Bregirados win rate: 40%

MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS vs. MF-H Lightning L-Drago (Upper) CH120LRF
Bregirados: 8 wins (5 KO, 3 OS)
L-Drago: 12 wins (7 KO, 5 OS)
1 tie redone
Bregirados win rate: 40%

Defense (Click to View)

MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS vs. MF-H Libra 85RB
Bregirados: 0 wins
Libra: 10 wins (4 KO, 6 OS)
Bregirados win rate: 0%
Stopped after 10 rounds because it was clear Bregirados wasn't going to win any. LTDC are the primary counters to this combo, as they are able to resist recoil KOs and have much better Stamina than Bregirados.

MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS vs. MF-H Libra 230RB
Bregirados: 6 wins (all KO)
Libra: 14 wins (3 KO, 11 OS)
3 ties redone
Bregirados win rate: 30%

Stamina (Click to View)

MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS vs. Libra TH170D
Bregirados: 13 wins (all KO)
Libra: 7 wins (1 KO, 6 OS)
1 tie redone
Bregirados win rate: 65%

Balance (Click to View)

MSF-H Dark Knight Bregirados T125RS vs. MF-L Meteo L-Drago F230GCF
Bregirados: 8 wins (7 KO, 1 OS)
L-Drago: 12 wins (2 KO, 10 OS)
2 ties redone
Bregirados win rate: 40%
Finally got my hands on an Orange Takara-Tomy F230 btw. The one OS was when Bregirados literally flipped Meteo over lategame.

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Conclusion (Click to View)

Like I said before, I didn't expect this combo to be top-tier worthy, but it's still just as important to know what doesn't work as well as what does so I posted these tests anyways. The primary reason I created this thread, actually, was not so much to promote the combo but more to invite a discussion on the concept behind it (offensive Wheels on RS that cause recoil KOs). Any input on how to improve on the concept or refine the combo into a more effective form would be appreciated.

Yo, Hype wasn't at Anime North. It's Blasterjoker1 you're in reference to, lol.

The results aren't so great and it's not tier-list worthy but it definitely got some good results against Libra TH170D, even despite Libra-because of its weight-being less prone to getting KO'ed than other wheels in placed with TH170D.

Bregirados's results against Omega didn't really reflect on the ones we saw at Anime North. Blasterjoker's win against you was in my opinion, sheer luck. The win could have easily been in favor of you.

Thanks for the testings regardless!

This combo has pretty much the same concept as MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RSF, which I have used to great success since the inception of Limited Format (at A YEAR: The Month of Frozen Heads, to be specific). And if you take a peek at the Winning Combinations list for Limited, you will see that variations of it have become a popular choice for other Toronto Bladers as well.

Combos like this absolutely annihilate anything that is lower than 230 and stationary. In my experience, MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RSF can KO Libra 85RB with relative ease as well. The things it has trouble with are Attack, F230CF/GCF, and 230-height combos in general. That said, it still has a chance in all of these situations, which is what makes it great. It's like a passive Attack type that has enough power and speed to KO things, but not so much speed that self-KOing is a huge fear.

I would lean towards using Wyvang for this combo, personally. It has just as good, if not better Smash, and is also the heaviest Chrome Wheel available. And Samurai is one of the heaviest Crystal Wheels (although I know you have no other choice if you want left-spin). This weight is important because with combos like these, you are aiming to take advantage of recoil and minimize your chances of self-KOing because of it.

As for RS ... it's an interesting one. I did a ton of testing prior to Anime North with MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RS because I knew that while most people would be thinking about RS from a defensive perspective, I wanted to see if I could find a way to use it offensively. My hope was that it would reduce the recoil on the combo and allow for more reliable KOs. My only worry was the sacrifice in movement speed, so I spent a lot of time testing it using the Rev-Up Launcher.

It performed well enough, but from my perspective, the movement afforded by RSF is more valuable than the increased defense afforded by RS. RS can move pretty quickly, but you walk a fine line between legality/illegality when you reach the point when yours moves around a lot without a Rev-Up (the RS Blasterjoker01 used at AN is probably illegal now, for example).

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Yo, Hype wasn't at Anime North. It's Blasterjoker1 you're in reference to, lol.

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Bregirados's results against Omega didn't really reflect on the ones we saw at Anime North. Blasterjoker's win against you was in my opinion, sheer luck. The win could have easily been in favor of you.

Wait, really? This entire time I misheard it and thought everyone was calling him Classikjoker, and since Hype is the guy that's usually some form of Classik I assumed they were the same person, haha. My mistake.

While it's true that the testing results I got here aren't the same as what happened at Anime North, I wouldn't say it was sheer luck. Using Bregirados, statistically he would have had a 23% chance of beating me, although he was using Saramanda against me so he would have had less recoil and one set of testing isn't really enough to base a statement like that on. I'll be totally honest here, when I first saw this combo I underestimated it because it seemed to be random parts thrown together. It wasn't until the RS controversy with Dark_Mousy that I realized "oh wow he knows what he's doing and he really put a lot of thought into designing this".

This combo has pretty much the same concept as MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RSF, which I have used to great success since the inception of Limited Format (at A YEAR: The Month of Frozen Heads, to be specific). And if you take a peek at the Winning Combinations list for Limited, you will see that variations of it have become a popular choice for other Toronto Bladers as well.

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As for RS ... it's an interesting one. I did a ton of testing prior to Anime North with MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RS because I knew that while most people would be thinking about RS from a defensive perspective, I wanted to see if I could find a way to use it offensively. My hope was that it would reduce the recoil on the combo and allow for more reliable KOs. My only worry was the sacrifice in movement speed, so I spent a lot of time testing it using the Rev-Up Launcher.

It performed well enough, but from my perspective, the movement afforded by RSF is more valuable than the increased defense afforded by RS. RS can move pretty quickly, but you walk a fine line between legality/illegality when you reach the point when yours moves around a lot without a Rev-Up (the RS Blasterjoker01 used at AN is probably illegal now, for example).

While I'm aware of the Wyvang RSF/RB setups (and Lightning RB as well) I always thought that they were supposed to be more Attack-oriented and mobile as opposed to RS which was generally supposed to be stationary and KO things using recoil. For example, the reason I beat Stormscorpio1 at Anime North was because his RB wasn't aggressive enough to KO Jade WD, while Bregirados RS could probably have KOed it a few times without much prior movement.

Did you ever end up using MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RS at AN? It would have to have been on Friday, since that was when you didn't place. If you did how did it work in an actual tournament setting?

As for the movement issue, that was one of the problems I was thinking Omega RS would run into, with it being too stationary to the point where most things could avoid any serious contact with it. I was thinking RS could provide more grip, and once I saw Blasterjoker1 use Bregirados I realized that was how you could give it more movement without sacrificing any Defense. But you're right, RSF/RB is probably better for this type of thing especially with how fast RS wears down (after only these and the Libra RS tests I did about a month ago mine is probably illegal too).

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does WIP mean?

Anyway, interesting concept, I can't test that exact combo, but I'll mess around with beyblades using that idea.

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“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does WIP mean?

Anyway, interesting concept, I can't test that exact combo, but I'll mess around with beyblades using that idea.

Work In Progress. It just means that the combo I posted isn't "the final draft" and I just wanted input from the rest of the WBO on how to improve it.

Oh, I was thinking it was some sort of beyblade term, haha. My bad.

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“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

While I'm aware of the Wyvang RSF/RB setups (and Lightning RB as well) I always thought that they were supposed to be more Attack-oriented and mobile as opposed to RS which was generally supposed to be stationary and KO things using recoil. For example, the reason I beat Stormscorpio1 at Anime North was because his RB wasn't aggressive enough to KO Jade WD, while Bregirados RS could probably have KOed it a few times without much prior movement.

Did you ever end up using MSF-H Samurai Wyvang R145RS at AN? It would have to have been on Friday, since that was when you didn't place. If you did how did it work in an actual tournament setting?

As for the movement issue, that was one of the problems I was thinking Omega RS would run into, with it being too stationary to the point where most things could avoid any serious contact with it. I was thinking RS could provide more grip, and once I saw Blasterjoker1 use Bregirados I realized that was how you could give it more movement without sacrificing any Defense. But you're right, RSF/RB is probably better for this type of thing especially with how fast RS wears down (after only these and the Libra RS tests I did about a month ago mine is probably illegal too).

They are indeed supposed to be more Attack-oriented and mobile. The reason for that in my experience after testing with RS is because they are more successful when oriented that way. RS is usable for the job, and it might actually work much the same against the most stationary and light of combos, but once you start trying to KO Defense with it, the slower movement might be a hindrance.

I beieve I used it once at MFB BeyBattle Revolution with the Rev-Up Launcher against @[Suntailhawk] and lost (can't recall what he used). It moved around almost like an RF, which is incredible. And this is kind of a secondary thing, but while we're on this topic: the thing with the Rev-Up is that it's hard to launch purposefully. You're often going to launch slightly early or slightly late with it because of the timing involved with it's use. And because of that, it's hard to do very precise movements when launching. In any case, I think it would be interesting for people to do more testing with this type of combo using RS in combination with the Rev-Up Launcher; it's the only real and undeniably legal way of overcoming the lack of movement of RS.

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