[Hasbro]  Whirl Knight K8 Competitive Testing & Discussion

Whirl Knight K8 Competitive Testing & Discussion
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Whirl Knight K8 is now available in both Canada and the United States, so I thought I'd start a thread here on it.

To quickly get it out of the way, the Knight K8 Strike Chip is not great. It has very level slopes, with a slight change in the middle - it is outclassed by other Chips like Perseus P8 and Dragon D8. It is also slightly below the heavy end of Chip weight of 5.0 grams, weighing around 4.7 grams. Knight K8 also has one of the worst paint jobs (or lack thereof) that Hasbro has put out, on par with Dragon D8.

Whirl is mostly a circle.

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Above I have Whirl in the middle, compared to Hasbro's Garuda G3 (left) and Takara Tomy's Wind (right). The measuresments are as follows; forgive any slight measurement errors, as I am using a caveman method with the tools I have on-hand (a ruler).


Diameters:
G3 5.9cm
Whirl 5.7cm
Wind 6.3cm

Maximum heights:
G3 1.0cm
Whirl 1.6cm
Wind 1.9cm

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Whirl is smaller than its Takara Tomy counterpart in size, and is even smaller than Garuda G3 - sort of. Garuda G3 and Whirl are basically the same diameter, but the reason for the slightly smaller diameter of Whirl is because, while Garuda G3 is a perfect circle, Whirl slightly bends inwards at 3 points. Furthermore, while Garuda G3 has a perfectly smooth perimeter, Whirl's is slightly more rugged. Whirl is also slightly taller and thicker than Garuda - compared to G3, which weighs around 9.5 grams, Whirl weighs about 4 grams more, at 13.5 grams (Whirl Dragon D8 -3). While G3 and Whirl perform very similarly, I give the edge to Whirl as in testing it seems to win in mirror matches, and has the added utility of High Mode against Opposite Spin opponents.

Note that this is also why I do not recommend using the Greatest Armor (G13) Gravity Ring - doing so will indeed add a bit of stability and weight to Whirl (no Burst Resistance increase from G13), but removes the ability to swap to High Mode. In theory you would use the 3/3' Gravity Ring as you would use a three-sided Armor with Wind, but the Gravity Rings weigh a gram so I doubt it's the end of the world if you didn't own 3/3'. I have used 4/4' as well without issue, which I compare to the 0 Armor in the Burst Standard format.

The Whirl QS Blade, as an adaptation of Takara Tomy's Wind BU Blade, is similarly circular in shape. Wind is quite popular in the Burst Standard format, and Whirl does live up to expectations in this format, with a few similarities in performance. For example, High Mode can be used with Wind against Opposite Spin opponents - Whirl can also be used to this effect. Sure, it's not as wide as Wind, the gaps are smaller, and there's no Upper/Down Force mode change, but I am doubtful that hurt its overall performance very much.

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I've called the Gambit QS Blade "Diet Driger V2", but I believe Whirl is closer to Driger V2 in that regard. Whirl requires either a hard hitting Attacker like Hasbro's Xiphoid, or a specialized Same-Spin combo, i.e. Flame Saggitario, Gambit, Triumph, etc. Against left-spin opponents like Geist Fafnir or Drain Fafnir, Whirl has a good chance of either tying or winning (tests were done wih Hasbro's Bearing). Like Gambit, Whirl has fairly high Burst Resistance and Burst Defense when paired with a tight Chip. Gambit I would argue has slightly better Defense overall than Whirl, due to its weight and more rugged shape. However, Gambit has slightly worse High Mode Opposite-Spin performance. Because Whirl is similar to (if not better than) Garuda G3, I don't reckon Whirl will remain legal in this format. In a straight mirror match against Driger V2, Whirl did not do very well, so I am doubtful Whirl will make an impact in the next format up, Burst GT.


I have a Burst Limited event in 2 weeks where half the participants own Whirl, so maybe I'll update this post with any relevant observations. Would be happy to hear any thoughts on Whirl as well, although given the subject matter, this may not generate much discussion.

Oh and +Bounce is terrible.

June 10, 2023 Update: Testings
I've included data from testings, and some further thoughts post-tournament. To start off, some Stamina testings for Same-Spin and Opposite-Spin opponents:

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 6 wins (6 OS)
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 4 wins (4 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 60%

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' (High Mode) vs Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 5 wins (5 OS)
Geist Fafnir Wheel-SP Bearing Drift: 5 wins (5 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 50%

Note that these matches were done with varying launching angles as well; both Gambit and Whirl got wins in a variety of launches and who launched first did not matter, nor which Bearing/Tapered-Q was used. Ties were not counted. My sense is that the two Blades are fairly even in terms of Same-Spin Stamina, in the same manner of Takara Tomy's Dynamite (F Gear) and Wind in the Burst Standard format. In terms of Opposite-Spin Stamina, High Mode Whirl seemed more effective than High Mode Gambit against Layers such as Drain Fafnir and Geist Fafnir.

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Flame Sagittario Wheel-SP Wave': 8 wins (8 OS)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 20%

Like was the case with Gambit, Whirl performed poorly against a Same-Spin dedicated combo using Flame Sagittario. To finish off these tests, I wanted to see how Whirl stacked up against Attackers compared to Gambit. I used Hasbro's Xiphoid as the benchmark.

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Unite-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Unite-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 3 wins (3 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 40%

Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Unite-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Gambit Dragon D8 Tapered-Q Unite-4': 3 wins (3 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 2 wins (2 KO)
Gambit Dragon D8 winrate: 60%

Granted the sample size is small, but it appears to me at least that Gambit has a better time tanking hits from Xiphoid than Whirl did.

Finally, I wanted to see how the popular Whirl Bearing combo faired against Attack, beginning with Twin Nemesis, which is generally considered outclassed by Hasbro's Xiphoid.

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Twin Nemesis Wheel-SP Xtreme'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 1 wins (2 OS)
Twin Nemesis Wheel-SP Xtreme': 4 wins (4 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 20%

And finally Xiphoid and Nightmare Longinus:

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 2 wins (2 OS)
Xiphoid Xcalius X8 Twist-Q Xtreme-G13: 3 wins (3 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 40%

Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4' vs Nightmare Longinus Expand Quick'
Whirl Knight K8 Tapered-Q Bearing-4': 1 wins (1 OS)
Nightmare Longinus Expand Quick': 4 wins (4 KO)
Whirl Knight K8 winrate: 20%

I think from these results, it is fair to say Whirl is weak to even "outclassed" Attackers in the format.


From my testings and tournament experience, Whirl seems to be a strong pick for 1on1 Match Type. This situation was reminiscent of the Wind Bearing Drift combos we had seen in Burst Standard tournaments in our area.

Using Whirl in the 1on1 Match Type First Stage is fairly easy to do. The optimal Whirl Tapered-Q Bearing combo was used by all 5 players, and all were in the top half of the tournament. Whirl has good Same and Opposite-Spin performance, and high Burst Resistance, and even bad Chips are usable on it. It is a relatively safe First Stage combo, and requires no strategic planning other than switching to High Mode against lefts - a "turn off your brain and autopilot" combo.

Final Stage is where things begin to fall apart for Whirl however. Unlike the Wind BDr metagame of BST or the Driger V2 BDr metagame of 2022 BSL, nobody used Whirl Bearing in their Decks, except for me, who scored 0 points with it in Final Stage. Unlike the Wind and Driger V2, which could probably hold their own in a Deck and have no 100% guaranteed counters, Whirl has several reliable counters. Ultimately, this is why Whirl saw no usefulness in the Deck Match Type Final Stage.
June 10, 2023 update: I've amended this post with testings and thoughts, following hosting a tournament with Whirl legal and accessible to several players (see tournament report here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oDoG...ritiAW_Wck).