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H145

Oct. 21, 2011  11:49 PM
 
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

try Metal Face/R2F?
Oct. 21, 2011  11:55 PM
 
(Oct. 21, 2011  11:49 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

try Metal Face/R2F?

I will tomorrow. Done testing for today.
Oct. 22, 2011  12:06 AM
 
(Oct. 21, 2011  11:48 PM)Hazel Wrote: Just finished testing a Blitz variant, out of curiousity. It did startlingly well.

Blitz Unicorno II H145RF vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS
Blitz Unicorno II H145RF: 13 KO
MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS: 1 OS 6 KO


More than half of Blitz's KOs, however, were wall-saves.

MF Blitz 100R2F can 100% on MFH Basalt BD145MB/CS
Oct. 22, 2011  12:14 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  12:06 AM)gibsonmac Wrote:
(Oct. 21, 2011  11:48 PM)Hazel Wrote: Just finished testing a Blitz variant, out of curiousity. It did startlingly well.

Blitz Unicorno II H145RF vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS
Blitz Unicorno II H145RF: 13 KO
MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS: 1 OS 6 KO


More than half of Blitz's KOs, however, were wall-saves.

MF Blitz 100R2F can 100% on MFH Basalt BD145MB/CS

This statement could not be less relevant to the discussion without ditching the word "Blitz".

This is about H145's function on these wheels. What a MW can do on another track is pointless, especially if you're using LTAC as a basis during a discussion of MTAC.
Oct. 22, 2011  12:17 AM
 
He's saying it's not worth using H145 over MF Blitz 100R2F.
Oct. 22, 2011  12:20 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  12:17 AM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: He's saying it's not worth using H145 over MF Blitz 100R2F.

That's not really relevant, either. This is about testing H145.

If we stopped testing new things once we found one thing that worked, we'd be up a waterfall when something came along that it didn't work against.
Oct. 22, 2011  12:23 AM
 
It's about seeing if H145 is good enough to be used.

He said MF Blitz 100R2F does a lot better, so H145 isn't good enough to be used.
Oct. 22, 2011  1:08 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  12:23 AM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: It's about seeing if H145 is good enough to be used.

He said MF Blitz 100R2F does a lot better, so H145 isn't good enough to be used.

Honestly, I do not get 100% with MF Blitz 100R2F. Even if I did, however, I'd still test MF Blitz H145R2F, because more information is never a bad thing.

Never.
Oct. 22, 2011  1:11 AM
 
Yeah, it was just his take on it, not a be-all-end-all answer Smile
Oct. 22, 2011  1:28 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  12:23 AM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: He said MF Blitz 100R2F does a lot better, so H145 isn't good enough to be used.

Word... Yeah there are a few Blitz combos that get 90% or better against basalt BD145CS/MB... S130, 100, CH120, and iirc R145??

multiple users have been slaying it, not just me, but my WR is 90-100% depends on the day, its a test I do regular, cause basalt is fun to see go flying!!!

And my point was, that if an 'outclassed' track like 100 can 100% the combo, then a part that only gets 60-ish isn't worth using...

but yes more info is always better than less, so thankyou for the tests
Oct. 22, 2011  3:58 AM
 
I just want to go on the record that I feel H145 is not a good part. Just because it sometimes produces eye-candy KOs doesn't make it a good part.
Oct. 22, 2011  4:09 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  3:58 AM)Uwik Wrote: I just want to go on the record that I feel H145 is not a good part. Just because it sometimes produces eye-candy KOs doesn't make it a good part.

There is potentially a method to its madness, however. The fact that it is capable of KOs of its own in any regard means there is probably an outlet for it.

That is why we are testing it.
Oct. 22, 2011  4:31 AM
 
M145 is capable of KOs of its own in any regard too. I'm not posting this to claim that H145 is as bad as M145, but you get the idea.

I would put H145 under TT classification as 'Defense'. We all know that 'Defense' for TT means counter-attack, as supposed to the conventional WBO classification (Heavy tanks, can take multiple hits etc). Now to 'counter attack', it would have to produce similar amount of recoil. So for H145, to be used in attack combos, for it to be efficient (helping with smash attack etc), it has to 'suffer' as much. Suffering recoils on tracks is actually worse than suffering recoils on MWs. Which is why 230 is a great track, apart from its obvious height.

To further utilize this H145 to its maximum. Maybe unconventional combos like anti meta would work, but its 145 height poses another problem for unconventional combinations, which normally is on low tracks or super high tracks.

All I'm trying to say is that H145 is, at best, decent. Not good, nor great.
Oct. 22, 2011  4:44 AM
 
Well, my point was that as H145 itself is actually the driving force behind most KOs it makes, there is probably an outlet for exploiting this. Recoil can be lowered with MF/MF-H and certain tips, as well as heavier MWs.

I, too, doubt it will be anything seriously competitive, but a fun little niche with some function is worth investigating, in my opinion.

I really want to see it go up against R145 on combos that reveal a lot of track(in an H145 combo vs. R145 combo type setup, specifically).
Oct. 22, 2011  5:03 AM
 
Why not Hell_H145RF vs Hell_R145RF?? Hell reveals a ton of track, so does flame and Sagittario
Oct. 22, 2011  9:44 AM
 
Hell has way too much recoil. Making it an attacker and having both sides use it will produce a hellstorm (haha, punny) of self KOs. I doubt those results will be accurate.
Oct. 22, 2011  12:05 PM
 
My opinions about H145- I have always considered H145 to be a great part. I loved to suggest H145 based attack combos! But, it suddenly lost use after BD145 and CH120 became prominent.
Hero- Yes, that's true! But, considering the weight Hell's got and also the MFs and MF-Hs, the recoil is significantly reduced. Smile
Oct. 22, 2011  2:26 PM
 
What mold are you using, Uwik?
Oct. 22, 2011  2:41 PM
 
TBH, I'm not sure. They're from TT Dark Bull. One was from the earlier lot though. Only one broke from a battle, clipped 1/4 off one of the wings. The other one just fell off my desk, and had a vertical crack.
Oct. 22, 2011  3:59 PM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  5:03 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: Why not Hell_H145RF vs Hell_R145RF?? Hell reveals a ton of track, so does flame and Sagittario
IMO H145 should only be used on smash wheels that have two or four contact points, not 3. The point is to throw all of your weight onto each contact point and then have a gap in weight where there are no points. By doing 3 and 4, you've created 7 uneven contact points, which is not ideal.

A good example would be Blitz in barrage vs. Blitz in assault. Assault is better because it has more weight and mass behind each point.
Oct. 22, 2011  5:20 PM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  3:59 PM)Deikailo Wrote:
(Oct. 22, 2011  5:03 AM)gibsonmac Wrote: Why not Hell_H145RF vs Hell_R145RF?? Hell reveals a ton of track, so does flame and Sagittario
IMO H145 should only be used on smash wheels that have two or four contact points, not 3. The point is to throw all of your weight onto each contact point and then have a gap in weight where there are no points. By doing 3 and 4, you've created 7 uneven contact points, which is not ideal.

A good example would be Blitz in barrage vs. Blitz in assault. Assault is better because it has more weight and mass behind each point.

Ah, good point that.
But, I think Vulcan is the only ideal two sided Smash Wheel. Wait, even Quetz is there...
Otherwise, we have got no other wheels with 2 or 4 smash points...
Considering the two are outclassed, H145's use with those MW's would be kinda....... weird? :\
Oct. 22, 2011  8:07 PM
 
Weird is the whole point.... also got beat that compliments h145 shape
Oct. 22, 2011  8:20 PM
 
I believe this should be tested:
MF Beat Eagle GB145R2F/RF VS MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
compared with
MF Beat Eagle H145R2F/RF VS MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
compared with
MF Beat Eagle 85R2F/RF VS MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS

Beat is the best 2 sided Attack MW and as Deikailo said, H145 should be used with MW's with 2 or 4 contact points. H145's horns must be lined up with the larger parts on Beat for maximum smash
Oct. 22, 2011  11:29 PM
 
Well, the Italians have a different point of view, Leone and LLD H145RF were very popular, also Rock with H145 was used heavily, non of them have 2 or 4 contact points, 3's and 6-8 iirc... with a high speed (rotationally) bottom it could be used for a barrage attacker, like Blitz in barrage mode for instance, or carp maybe even try poison (as long as we are talking unconventional niche combos)

Alternatively, Jade has 4 contacts in attack mode it is sort of square-ish, Thermal, inferno, sagg, Phantom, vulcan should also be considered...

Phantom would be interesting as a 'H145, do work!' combo, high rotational velocity... something like Phantom Orion/bull/rex/cancer/any symmetrical CW H145XF/WF/MF... I think I may test this later tonight, but I got tattooed for 6 hours today so I'm kinda sore, but we'll see..
Oct. 22, 2011  11:43 PM
 
(Oct. 22, 2011  5:20 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Ah, good point that.
But, I think Vulcan is the only ideal two sided Smash Wheel. Wait, even Quetz is there...
Otherwise, we have got no other wheels with 2 or 4 smash points...
Considering the two are outclassed, H145's use with those MW's would be kinda....... weird? :\
Perseus is round enough to pass for any amount of contact points. There is Sag, lol.
(Oct. 22, 2011  11:29 PM)gibsonmac Wrote: Well, the Italians have a different point of view, Leone and LLD H145RF were very popular, also Rock with H145 was used heavily, non of them have 2 or 4 contact points, 3's and 6-8 iirc... with a high speed (rotationally) bottom it could be used for a barrage attacker, like Blitz in barrage mode for instance, or carp maybe even try poison (as long as we are talking unconventional niche combos)

Alternatively, Jade has 4 contacts in attack mode it is sort of square-ish, Thermal, inferno, sagg, Phantom, vulcan should also be considered...

Phantom would be interesting as a 'H145, do work!' combo, high rotational velocity... something like Phantom Orion/bull/rex/cancer/any symmetrical CW H145XF/WF/MF... I think I may test this later tonight, but I got tattooed for 6 hours today so I'm kinda sore, but we'll see..
Leone has like, 6 contact points, which is enough to make it fall under a more rounder smash wheel, but Leone is terrible outclassed. You're focusing too much on contact points than the weight factor I was trying to show. If a smash wheel is more circular (six or more points) then it really doesn't matter about throwing off the weight.

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